Newbie with several questions [Archive]

KPC

08-25-2006, 09:22 AM

Hello, I currently own and operate an industrial coatings business.

Just this week I picked up a Roland PC600 "Print & Cut" machine. I had no problems connecting it and getting it to work properly. The machine was just serviced by an authorized Roland technician right before I purchased it.

The previous owner included a roll of printable white Avery vinyl.

I picked up Corel Suite 12 and was able to use Corel Draw to make a sticker design, then save it as a jpg file, and then use the supplied Roland bridge to take the jpg file and print it with the Roland PC600.

The only problem is that I can't figure out how to "Print and Cut".

Remember, I didn't buy this machine to go into the sign making business. I purchased this machine because I need to make small (1 ft x 1ft) stickers that can be slapped on the side of my company vehicles to advertise our industrial coatings service.

I also plan on getting a setup together to where I can travel to different car shows, and advertise my industrial coatings business using one of those Easy-Up tarps. I want to be able to use standard colored vinyl, use the Roland to cut out the business name and stick it to the front of the Easy-up. Or possibly buy a banner (4-5 feet long x 2-3 feet high) that I can hang from the front of the table, and cover the banner with vinyl to show what all we offer at our shop.

One thing that sets my current business apart from the competition is that we always present ourselves as being very professional in both attitude and appearance.

I don’t have the time to close up my business so that I can go work for $5 an hour at a Fast Sign’s that is over an hour away, just to get some “hands on” training. Ultimately, I’m posting this thread because I need some good advice or better yet point in a direction to possibly buying a set of instructional DVD’s that I can watch in my spare time, that will crudely teach me everything from what materials are needed to how to apply the materials on the substrate. Such as how to properly weed a cut sticker to applying transfer tape, to marking the substrate and the transfer tape, to squeegeeing <-sp? the vinyl to remove air bubbles, etc..

I was looking around eBay and came across these 2 dvd set

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vinyl-Graphics-Plotter-Cutter-Training-2x-DVD-Car-Bike_W0QQitemZ330021048849QQihZ014QQcategoryZ46741 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I never took any classes in college about graphic design, using a vinyl machine, etc..

Some may instantly start asking, why would anyone shell out thousands of dollars on a machine that they have absolutely no idea how to use. Well, I have the ambition to learn how to use this equipment and I feel that over time, I will recover the upfront cost + I like the idea of being able to do all of my own vinyl work on a moments notice.

I kindly than everyone in advance.

Whit

08-25-2006, 09:28 AM

I'm thinkin you'll need a vector format around your jpg
in order for it to cut as well as print !!!
This is not my area so may or may not be the case !!!
Welcome to the forums,,, from Texas !!!

Bradster941

08-25-2006, 12:46 PM

:Welcome: KPC.

To do the plot I beleave you will need a trace around it and that will be a vextor format / file type.

I'm sure someone here will be able to step you through it.

You should also look in the Corel software area and Hardware sections for a wealth of information.

Jackpine

08-25-2006, 01:41 PM

You need to make a CutContour line in a special color ( I used magenta) in your custom color palette..... go to Roland and they have the steps to do this. I is not hard....just follow the steps. I printed and cut from Corel 10. The Roland user forum has alot of information ..... they have a section just for colorcamms. Hope this helps you .

KPC

08-25-2006, 06:06 PM

bump.

I've spent the better part of today looking around on the internet trying to find any good training resources and I've found very little.

What options are out there for the average Joe who has no formal signage training but wants to produce small stickers & small door signs for on the side of work trucks, etc..

I can't see it being difficult by any means, to produce a simple "Text Only" sign for the side of a normal utility work van.

Something like

Jimbo's Plumbing - We offer services 24 hrs a day
Call (999) 555-1234

Sure, it isn't a "professional" sign, but I'm not looking to get into the professional sign business.

I just want to be able to decently use this Roland PC-600 printer / cutter.

I've found "start-up kits" such as this:

Ordway Signmaking Starter Kit *** CLICK HERE *** (http://cgi.ebay.com/Roland-CX-24-GX-24-Vinyl-Plotter-Cutter-Accessory-Pack_W0QQitemZ120023221874QQihZ002QQcategoryZ26245 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

But even if I buy this and attempt to use the tools, I'm not going to be doing it the "Correct" way. I'll probably get lots of air bubbles and the sort..

I don't have the time to "self learn" how to become semi-decent in the world-of-signs

What is this average Joe supposed to do? I'm not looking to do this as a business, so it isn't like I'm going to be hurting the general public by someone over paying me for a cheap quality sign. I just want to use the machine for advertising my current industrial coatings business.

While searching and reading many threads on this forum, I ran across someone who asked if there were any good suppliers in the Pittsburgh area.

Someone replied with a company called "Pioneer".

So I called the company and asked if they had a showroom with a few machines where maybe one of their salesmen could show me the ropes on a machine. I would be happy to pick up some supplies while I was there and then could use both the supplies and what I learned during the demonstration and take that back to my shop where I could possibly put the two into use, creating some stickers / signs for myself.

After I said that to the lady on the phone, she pretty much said that they were only distributors of materials and that nobody in the office had any hands on experience working with the machines or producing stickers.

I feel like I'm running out of options. It's getting down to the point where I wish I could find someone in a 150 mile radius that would welcome me to their shop / home to show me the ropes. I understand that this is probably unlikely, because anyone who is already established in the sign business is going to want to keep their knowledge a secret so that others can't take away from their business.

Anyway, if anyone can comment on all of this, it is all greatly appreciated.

Please don't be rude though. I didn't buy the cheapest machine that was offered. I feel that I have my foot in the door by at least owning a good machine. I just need some training on how to use it.

What are my options?

KPC

08-25-2006, 06:29 PM

Is there any chance that someone could post a file of a sticker that is finished and ready to be printed and cut.

That way, I can use the file and work backwards and try to figure out why the file works vs. my jpg files that will only print but will not cut.

I have macromedia fireworks mx, photoshop 6.0, adobe imageready 3.0, corel suite 12.

Hopefully one of these software titles will allow this this machine spit out a sticker. I don't care what the sticker says.

All that I have at the moment is white vinyl. If possible, I'd like the sticker to be rather small. I don't want to waste all that ink and vinyl printing out a 3 foot long multi colored banner, if you know what I mean...

:thankyou:

Gino

08-25-2006, 06:30 PM

From the sound of your first post to only your second post, you’ve gone from not wanting to be in the industry at all and only doing your own in-house needs to now wanting to do half quality jobs for half price.

Remember, I didn't buy this machine to go into the sign making business. I purchased this machine because I need to make small (1 ft x 1ft) stickers that can be slapped on the side of my company vehicles to advertise our industrial coatings service.
AND
I like the idea of being able to do all of my own vinyl work on a moments notice.

You’re already telling us in your second post how it isn’t difficult.

I can't see it being difficult by any means, to produce a simple
AND
but I'm not looking to get into the professional sign business
AND
I don't have the time to "self learn" how to become semi-decent in the world-of-signs
AND
I'm going to be hurting the general public by someone paying me for a 1/2 quality sign.

You requested that we answer without being rude. Well, my take on this whole scenario is that you just want to cut your sign company out of his fair market price for doing work that you don’t understand or know how to do. You questions are purposely misleading and then you have the gall to ask for help from the very people you’re trying to screw

To make matters worse, you then admit that you want to do half-assed signs and charge ludicrous prices and undermine the trade in your area. Being able to buy some toys and spending a few hundred or thousand dollars doesn’t warrant you’re need to understand a trade that so many take seriously.

Sure, it isn't a "professional" sign, but I'm not looking to get into the professional sign business.

If this is how you run your other business, I feel sorry for your customers with your kind of business ethics and integrity… or lack of, I should say.

Pro Signs & Graphix

08-25-2006, 06:44 PM

We agree with Gino and ADD...

We originated by doing in-house work, but we already had prior graphics experience. We always supplied our own artwork.

You make it sound like you can learn what to do (and what we do) in fifteen minutes - which is just not possible, and even insulting to many of us.

You are correct that people in this business are protective of what they do, just as you are. What you do not understand is that the majority of the people in this business read and listen quite well. One minute you are tooo busy (meaning that you are making money with your current business) and the next minute you are speaking of selling cut-rate signage. The two statements in themselves are contradiction, and a red flag.

Honestly and integrity are two requirements that are taken very seriously in what we do. It is a craft - not the pushing of a retail product, like paint and coatings.

KPC

08-25-2006, 06:54 PM

You guys got it all wrong! I went back and re-read what I typed earlier and I admit that I can see how you got it wrong. From the way I wrote my second post, it seemed as though I wanted to produce signs for customers.

let me try to clear things up for good:

1. I have no interest at all of going into the sign business.

2. I bought the machine ONLY to promote my current business, and the option of maybe doing a few tiny stickers and the sort for family and close friends. For little to no charge. Pretty much, if you want a sticker made, catch me when I'm not busy, and just cover my costs for the ink and vinyl.

3. As for the idea of Jimbo's plumbing, I think this is where most of you took me to sound like I wanted to produce a sign for an actual "Jimbo's plumbing" Please understand that I simply used this as an example for my own business. I can't see it being difficult to produce a sticker that has text only "meaning no logo's graphics" that I can slap on the side of MY work truck.

Right now, I don't care if I produce a "non-professional" sign for the side of my work truck. Even if the sign, just has the business name, and the shop phone number, that is good enough, while I learn how to better use the software and equipment.

Then down the road, if I get better at using this equipment, I can rip off the old "text only" sign, and put on a more graphic sign on the side of MY work truck.

I'm not saying that "from an experienced point of view" that it easy to do a text only sign. I'm saying from an amateur's point of view, that I can't see it being that difficult.

4. I've never admitted to wanting to do a half-assed sign for anyone. I'm saying that I can understand that a true professional business, wouldn't want to teach some amateur how to make a sign, if that amateur is going to use it against the professional, by offering a 1/2 quality sign at 2 times fair market price.

I can go on an on, but you're taking everything opposite of what I mean.

There is absolutely no chance in hell that I'm trying or would even think about screwing anyone over. I paid good money for what I figure is a decent quality machine. I want to use this machine to better advertise my current business.

That is all there is to it.

signage

08-25-2006, 06:59 PM

Take a class at you local community college or get someone to produce the decals/signs for you. It would be like someone here saying I just bought an industrial powder coater to spray all my sign frames and sign blanks and would like to find someone in that industry to teach me how to use this equipment, I am not going into the powder coating industry I just want to coat my own fabricated metal items.

Believe that and I have some ocean front property for sale in the Pittsburgh area!

KPC

08-25-2006, 07:16 PM

I guess that I had figured there would be a set of instructional DVD's out there that were professional produced.

Seeing how there are so many of the really dirt cheap cutters scattered all over the internet for sale, especially on eBay, that there would be a great deal more people that are in my shoes, who doesn't give a damn about going into business with their machine.

They just purchased it for the pride in doing their own stickers. It is the same thing as the guy down the block, who goes out and buys a decent air compressor, and a decent spray gun, and wants to spray paint the hood of his daily driver car just because he is tired of having all of the rock chips in the hood.

He doesn't want to take it to a professional paint shop and pay $1000 for the hood to be professionally painted. But at the same time, he has absolutely no formal training on how to paint anything. Sure, there are several week long courses at the local community colleges on how to learn professional auto body painting but the average Joe looking to clean up and repaint the hood doesn't need formal / professional training. He is just looking for a little advice on how to tune the gun so that sprays the paint out in the correct amount.

When you guys head into your local home improvement store and ask the paint department what tools and techniques are needed to paint a room in your house, do they turn to you and say, you are an incapable ameature. Go flip through the phone book and find a professional to paint the walls. Of course they wouldn't treat you like that. In the back of his/her mind, they might feel that you can't produce a finish that will have the quality of a professional, but there are a lot of people out there that take pride in doing work themselves.

In my humble opinion, I believe where the problem lies is that you guys fail to realize, is that what “You Do” is far beyond what most of us amateurs ever dream of doing. To take it even 1 step further, I myself and I bet that I can speak for many amateurs as a whole that "we" don’t even dream about doing everything that "You Guys Do", because simply put, we don’t care to ever do it.

Just as the guy down the block who wants to paint the hood of his car, or the next door neighbor who decides he is tired of looking at the white walls of the living room and wants to paint them a different color.

Yes, I'm sure that there are many people out there that buy a $500 cutting machine and think they are gonna head into business and take over the sign making world. However, I spent many times that and I can tell you that all I want to do is produce a few damn stickers for my own use...

I'm in the shoes where I just wish I could find someone local who would share just an hour of their time to say, look, click here, to make a box, fill in the box, by clicking this button, and enter the text here. Once the sticker prints, you head out to your work truck, take a pencil, measure up from here, and draw a line. Match that same line on the sticker peel off the backing squeegee it out, and poof, there is your sticker.

Just as the guys above need help with choosing the materials, and techniques to paint the hood of their car or the walls in their living room. The difference between feeling comfortable "doing it yourself" might be just that 1/2 hr talking with the guy from the paint department in the home improvement store.

Sure, to the professionals, I'm bet the hair on the back of your neck stood up just thinking of how "low quality" the sign might look. But for me, I need to start somewhere. And if all that I get is an hour of someone’s time, to me I would be greatly appreciative. Because that hour of someone’s time, probably very well saved me 1-2 weeks worth of trying to figure it out on my own.

But as this thread seems to be going, I'll do as instructed and head back into the cave where all of us beginners belong. I'll be sure to outsource all of my stickers / truck signs and donate the machine that I just purchased since it will not do me any good. :rolleyes:

Sorry if I have offended anyone. That was never my intention.

Gino

08-25-2006, 07:34 PM

I don’t think you’ve wasted anyone’s time here other than maybe your own. Did you ever hear the saying digging deeper and deeper ?? Well, you’re back pedaling at such a rate, that now you’re swearing at yourself in your posts, for no good reason.

Me thinkst thou protesteth too much.

Did you happen to go out and buy a compressor and gun and forget to get a proper booth, too ??

Here’s another saying… and being from PA you should know it well…

Don’t put the cart in front of the horse.

If you want lessons on how to use this machinery and software you just got, just say so. I’m sure someone will be happy to teach you. They will probably charge you a non-refundable retainer of about $12,000.00 to start. You can get six [6] easy lessons for that and have on-hands training. You should take advantage of it, it will only help you further yourself in life and understand this fine industry.

You tend to think everything is so easy. Why do you keep on trying to cheapen our livelihood ?? Your downward spin on our trade is insulting. If you want to only produce things for yourself and close family members or friends, you sure have a lot of software you don’t need. Are you just a sucker to buy things before you know how to use them ??

I don’t mean any disrespect, but what you’ve shown so far for us and ours, leaves no room for any back. Sorry !! :unclesam:

KPC

08-25-2006, 08:05 PM

This thread is essentially getting no where.

The only reason that I'm getting rather upset is that I came to this forum with absolutely no experience and was looking for some quick and simple advice on how to get this machine to spit out a few small stickers.

As I play with the software and what not, I'll get the hang of things a little better and produce better results.

I feel that since the beginning, I've done nothing but try to battle the "professionals" in standing up to the idea that not all amateurs are looking to dive into the sign making business to turn a quick buck. Frankly, I don't care to make any money off of the machine. The money that I save over time being able to produce my own stickers, will pay for the machine. Then I have an asset to my company that is paid off.

If this forum consists of mostly only professionals who don't want bothered by the amateurs looking to produce a few small stickers, with absolutely no graphic design knowledge, then obviously, I am wasting both my time and everyone else’s.

I have no probablem openly stating that I have no idea what I'm doing with this equipment. And in my opinion, that shouldn't bother any of the professionals because my lack of experience isn't hurting anyone simply because I'm not selling any graphic products.

As I used the example in my previous post, about the guy who goes out on a limb and purchases some decent quality spray equipment. Does he pick up a spray booth, NO. Do you need a paint booth to spray the hood of a $2000 car? NO

If the guy who picks up the equipment, but doesn't buy the paint booth, complains and complains about the quality not being 100% perfect, then yes, I could see people dropping the roof on him.

But I picked up just what I needed to start producing a few decent stickers. I don't see what is so wrong with that. Especially considering, that I know and admit that I can't produce a "professional" looking sign.

Not everyone needs everything done professionally for each and every job. Hence what I said about the guy painting the room in his house. Will the job look as good as if a professional paint crew came in to do it for him. NO it will not. But the pride in being able to complete something that you had no former training in, is well worth the rather small offset in quality difference and the huge difference in cost between a professional paint crew and the do-it-yourselfer.

If nobody can understand where I'm coming from, I will gladly stop posting and just research and figure out how to do the stuff on my own. I just can't believe how some / all of you are looking at what I've typed as being so incredibly rude / deceiving / etc..

Techman

08-25-2006, 08:17 PM

I have no interest at all of going into the sign business.

But you are doing signs now,, Your doing something that a signmaker should be doing. You spent large amount of money to do what you want. But a signmaker could've done it for you.

Then you said....
and the option of maybe doing a few tiny stickers and the sort for family and close friends. For little to no charge

This is what we do not wish to hear. Someone doing our work undercutting us but not actually knowing what to do..

then you said..
Seeing how there are so many of the really dirt cheap cutters scattered all over the internet for sale, especially on eBay,

There are so many of them scattered around because there are so many trying to recover a few bux after finding out doing just what you are doing is a waste of time and talent.

And then,, tomorrow I will come over to your place and ask you to give me a paint job for just about cost. Then I will watch you do it,, then I will purchase a machine so I can do coatings work myself because you cost to much and rip others off. And while I am at it I'll just do a few freinds and other bizz buddies too. Real cheap at that. Not much just enuf to pay for tha machines and tools.

You see, you are not the first to do this. In fact you are a little late because our attitude is from listening to hundreds of others who just wish to "dable".
(dam I hate that term)

We wind up training dablers who bought cheap equipment, to those who have no commitment or vested interest. in our work, only to see our freinds suffer hunger pains while those like you undercut and disrespect what we do..
good luck..

Fred Weiss

08-25-2006, 08:26 PM

If what you want is to cut out your prints, you have already been given the answer twice. So here it is for a third time. It is done with a vector. The only application you list which is for vector creation and editing is CorelDRAW. What you converted to JPG was most likely a step backwards if it was vectors in the first place.

Go to Roland's forum, since you chose not to work with a Roland dealer, and use their search tools to find the information you seek.

Jillbeans

08-25-2006, 08:48 PM

Even if I knew how to send a cut file from Corel to a Roland plotter, I wouldn't tell you.
I work with Gerber.
To me, you are not a newbie sign maker.
You are just someone (wanting to "look professional") who was too cheap to pay a professional to letter your vehicles.
A 1'x1' RTA one-color decal would run you $40 here.
Did you wire your own house to save $500?
Operate on your sick pet to save a buck or two?
I am in the Pittsburgh area, but I really wouldn't want you as an apprentice or a client.
The folks at Pioneer or Glantz can be quite helpful.
To a "real" sign guy.
Since you don't think it will be difficult, figure it out yourself.
I'm sure that soon you will be cranking out cheap signs and be another boil-on-my-ass sign shop.

Techman said it far more elequontly than myself.

Jill

Derf

08-25-2006, 09:14 PM

Well you could learn the way I did!

Sit down in front of the computer and learn the software or don't eat. you'll learn real fast that way!

2972renfro

08-25-2006, 09:32 PM

Been reading this posting and something smells fishy.

The poster seems to be saying a lot of things beforehand in order to avoid being flamed. He talks in great detail about not wanting to compete with the pros, avoiding bubbles in the vinyl, and generally uses ALOT of terminology that only seasoned sign makers would know about.

My opinion is this is someone who is already a member here under another name and posing as an amateur in order to ruffle some feathers. You guys are wasting your time. This poster has by far been the most articulate person on here - FOR A NEWBIE.

You are being baited.

Cadmn

08-25-2006, 09:36 PM

see you insult the people you are asking for help you state "It can't be that hard ! well buddy if it aint that hard why you need help?Oh and buy the way I'll be doing my own coating next week & everyone here I'll only charge cost of material if I can do it in free time for you Its really simple takes No real knowledge to do it any trained monkey can do it. got couple them on order too the supplier really didnt want to sell me supplies since I'm not already a coater , but found tons on ebay :thumb::thumb::thumb:

KPC

08-25-2006, 09:44 PM

I can honestly say that this forum is unlike anything that I've ever visited on the net.

I frequent several industrial refinishing forums and it doesn't matter if the premier companies are talking about a multi-million dollar refinishing system or the small family run businesses that work 10 times as hard to make 10% of the money, everyone is friendly and willing to help even an amateur regardless if they have a vested interest in the trade or not.

It is funny because I've spent a few days reading on this forum before posting for the first time. Any time someone said anything about going into business using a small system like mine, everyone says that if you plan on putting food on the table, forget about doing small $2 stickers and the sort. Get a bigger machine and plan on doing larger things like vehicle wraps, larger outdoor signs, etc..

But I come on here asking for help because I want to produce small stickers, maybe the biggest sign would be a simple banner for use at a trade show, and all of a sudden, I'm this thief who is causing your friends to suffer hunger pains.

I guess that seeing how I run a business (although slightly different from making signs but still in the same ball park) I remain successful irregardless if a growing amount of people offer refinishing or do their own coating to avoid paying an actual shop. Their will always be people who are "do it yourselfers".

I fall into this category. When someone asked, did I wire my house to save $500, I couldn't help but break out laughing. Cause the answer is a 100% yes. Everything from bending the conduit, to hanging the lights. I take great pride in doing it myself.

Obviously my replies are not going to change the consensus opinions, and visa-versa.

I just don't believe that the people out there who choose to buy a small machine to do their own stickers and the sort are really hurting the industry as a whole.

Simply because with the industry that I'm in, the same type of situation is going on, but every day my phone still rings and emails pour in from customers who either have no interest or do not have the capabilities of doing their own refinishing.

It is such a shame how after reading dozens and dozens of threads, so many people shoot down newbies before they even get a foot in the door to say HI. Especially those guys who do it yourself, just like I do.
I'm going to go out on the kill 'em with kindness because from the bottom of my heart I hope that all true professionals remain successful. I've said it several times and for what it is worth, I am not looking to go into the sign making business. I just wanted to produce my own stickers / small banners, and if there are so many others like me out there which is causing such a shortage of income to the sign making professionals, then I can honestly see why there is such negativity towards the newbies who have no interest in bettering the signmaking community as a whole. I don't know if I should have stated right off the bat as someone else said in another thread "please forgive me because I bring no experience to this forum", or if I should have just never posted anything to begin with.

Ultimately I want to close by saying, thank you for your time regardless if it was good or bad and I'm sorry for any trouble that I caused. :unclesam:

Bradster941

08-25-2006, 09:49 PM

I kind of thought that, but in the true nature of what this board is all about, this is what I wrote while you all were posting.

I’m sure it won’t be popular, and you can bash or shun me, but I’m just tired of how quick everyone is to bash instead of offering helpful information or ignoring it all together .!. ( Myself included ).

KPC

It’s not my place to apologize for the content posted on this forum, blah blah blah.

Take 2.

KPC This is a great place for information, but only if you have a post rating of “High Schooler” or above .!.

Take 3

KPC, This is a Great place to gain information that will save you and others countless hours of trial and error. I would suggest you……..

Take 4

KPC, this board has many members with a broad range of experiences and knowledge they are more than willing to share. Unfortunately, you, like I, are what is considered “HOBBIEST”, and a few, if not more members here seem to get off on putting you down instead of helping you up. It’s a shame, but a reality. That’s why I wouldn’t dare to post any of my designs here anymore.

Please take note that this thread you started has been responded to in a non constructive manor by only two or three members here and not the vast majority.

Your intensions were clear and non threatening to the bizz. But that got ignored.

Sorry your first post has turned out this way, it shouldn’t have happen.

I can’t personally help you with you inquiry, but I bet if you sent a few PM’s to members like Doug Allan, Fred Wies, (the moderator here), Ink Fish, Shovel Head, etc., (people I would trust) I bet you would get a sincere answer to your problem. .

:rolleyes: :Sleeping: :Sleeping: :Sleeping: :Sleeping: :Sleeping: :rolleyes: :Cool 2:

Cadmn

08-25-2006, 09:50 PM

only thing is you miss the whole point of people like you in our business

signage

08-25-2006, 09:50 PM

You keep bringing up thing about home depot go and get "HVAC" equipment or parts. I can fix these unit but I can not get the part I need from the local distributors because they will only deal with HVAC repair companies. Also like I said earlier how would you fell if the people you are trying to get to be your customer went out and got the equipment you use to make a living then ask you to show them how to use it? THINK ABOUT IT! IF YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL YOU WOULDN'T LIKE IT! You should have looked into how to use the equipment or training before you purchased it. You can spend a lot of hours learning or you could sell that equipment and pay a professional to do them for you, it is cheaper to get the professional to make RTA pieces for you.

madisonsignguy

08-25-2006, 09:51 PM

Hey can you suggest a video on doing industrial coatings. I'm sure any idiot can do that right??? Seems easy enough.

I Mean come on I just want to do my own industrial coatings. Well and maybe for a few friends but don't worry i won't do it for everyone it's not like I want to go into the industrial coatings business.

Derf

08-25-2006, 09:59 PM

KPC! just go back and read what you said, some times that helps..

Ask Flame... LOL

You can keep posting here.. just don't give up! if you really need help people here will help you.

your point is just blurry because so many before you just think you can "just make stickers" 10 years ago I got into the sign Biz because my friend had a job at Fast Signs and he said, "dude my job kicks ass because all I do all day Saturday is make stickers for my motorcycle all day while the boss is out". Here I am 10 years later making Monument signs and making a living.

State your position clearly.. ask direct questions with out all the fluff and you'll get more direct answers.

Good luck

Jackpine

08-25-2006, 10:13 PM

"Is there any chance that someone could post a file of a sticker that is finished and ready to be printed and cut."

Yes there is . This is a file vreated in Corel 10. The mafenta line is the cut line. This file was exported as an eps. There are bitmaps ( diamondplate fill ) and vectors in this file. The cut line has to be a vector. Go to Roland user forum and register....there is a ton of information there.

Bradster941

08-25-2006, 10:19 PM

only thing is you miss the whole point of people like you in our business

How am I in your Business Cadmn ?

If I do a job for a friend here and there, is your business so fragile that I have just put you out of business?

KPC

08-25-2006, 10:19 PM

What I failed to realize prior to posting the very first message was that this forum is encompassed around only well experienced professionals in the sign making business, who seem to have done an excellent job of beating down any newbie before they feel welcomed enough to stick around. Sure, it sounds like there is an attitude when I state this, but from an "outsiders" perspective of how things run, it seems to be 100% spot on.

As I've said prior, I've never ran into a forum where they were so quick to shoot down a newbie. This is very discouraging and regardless if it is intended or not, anyone treated in this manner is quick to feel unwelcomed.

As for the comments about the terminology that I use sounding more experienced than a newbie and that I'm now baited, it doesn't take too much knowledge or experience to know that if you don't place and squeegee a sticker properly that it is gonna have bubbles. Go to any car show and you're guaranteed to come home with no less than a dozen or more stickers from various car part manufacturers. Take a bunch of these stickers and plaster them all over your tool box and there are bubbles underneath.

Call me a liar, a phony, a fake, bait me, etc... It simply doesn't matter.

I have been honest from the very beginning of this thread and will remain the same until I finally throw in the towel and say enough is enough.

Although close, you guys haven't successfully beaten me down enough to discourage me from still posting a few replies as needed to state a point or two.

madisonsignguy

08-25-2006, 10:25 PM

How am I in your Business Cadmn ?

If I do a job for a friend here and there, is your business so fragile that I have just put you out of business?

Actually it doesn't put Cadmn's businss in Jeporady it put's your friends in trouble.

If your friend is so cheap and goes to you for his advertising instead of a pro he is the one that is doing harm to his own business. If you put crap up for a sign then don't be suprised when your results are crap too.

Bradster941

08-25-2006, 10:27 PM

Then let me rephrase that Yoda, if I cut it for my own use, how have I harmed you?

Bradster941

08-25-2006, 10:32 PM

Careful now what you post, I can rip it apart and Rip you a New one just as easy as you like to “Cut Paste and Quote” !!!

Get a Grip here people, your acting like total Jack Asses.!!!

Mike Paul

08-25-2006, 10:34 PM

The Vector Doctor

08-25-2006, 10:36 PM

You will need to use your Corel software to draw around the jpg using the pen tool and precisely place points around the image that you would want the cutter to follow. Think of it as the dot to dots you played as a kid where after you were done you had an drawing - crude but similar in fashion.

The lines that connect the dots can either be straight or curved and those are controlled using the pen tool by either clicking from one point to another or clicking and dragging to create a curve with handles. It is quite easy to do this, the hard part is making it look good. Now you can either trace exactly along the edges of your jpeg or offset a bit and this may be better depending on your circumstances. It allows for you to be off a bit with your lines and curves but still not cut into your image.

I have attached a sample of a jpeg that was obviously a print job, but the customer wanted the contour of the shape to follow only so that when placed on a truck or sign or whatever it did not have a white (or in this case) black background.

madisonsignguy

08-25-2006, 10:38 PM

Well you haven't. You have harmed yourself.

The problem is you get these people buying a machine to make there own decals and signs that have no idea about design advertising or sales. What ends up happening is yea you saved a few bucks doing it yourself, but in the long run you hurt yourself because chances are your sign probably failed to bring you the amount of customers that a well made sign would have.

You did not hurt me, I love you guys that do that, why would I want some cheap guy to come into my shop and hassle the hell out of me. No thanks I'll take the customer that actually cares about his business.

The Vector Doctor

08-25-2006, 10:40 PM

BTW, my contour is just a sample to show you what a complex one would look like on screen and of course the file that I provided the customerwas a vector contour. They then used whatever sign software on hand and combined their jpeg file with my vector ai/eps file. It printed first and then was loaded onto some cutting machine and the blade followed the paths that I created.

In my case I use Illustrator to produce the vector, but Coreldraw does the same.

Bradster941

08-25-2006, 10:42 PM

Actually it doesn't put Cadmn's businss in Jeporady it put's your friends in trouble.

If your friend is so cheap and goes to you for his advertising instead of a pro he is the one that is doing harm to his own business. If you put crap up for a sign then don't be suprised when your results are crap too.

Who the HELL are you to make such a Statement.?.

'Oh Yea, the defining voice in what a "BAD MOTHER IS" !!!

Exactly what do you base your statement on?
Get a Life....

madisonsignguy

08-25-2006, 10:48 PM

I base my statement on the word PROFESSIONALS.

There is a huge difference between a PROFFESIONAL that has had training and an amateur that has none.

If you had to have surgery would you go to a guy who happened to buy someone medical equipment on ebay and let him operate on you?

Would you let a guy who bought a hammer at home depot build your house?

Hmm lets see minor leagues vs the major leagues...... College vs. the NBA..... should I go on???

Bradster941

08-25-2006, 10:51 PM

The Vector Doctor

08-25-2006, 10:52 PM

Am I wasting my time on this thread? This seems to have strayed. Guess I should have read all the threads, thought I was being helpful. One last sample, maybe it will help another newbie.

The Vector Doctor

08-25-2006, 10:54 PM

This sample shows the jpeg in the background (as a template) made lighter to make it easier to trace. The thin black lines are my vector paths so that this person can cut this out of vinyl or output at any size without a loss in quality.

KPC

08-25-2006, 10:56 PM

Whew.. don't ya'll get tired of fighting?

It is so common on just about every thread..

madisonsignguy

08-25-2006, 10:58 PM

If you can't see my point after all that then forget it. you are a lost cause

I have no problem with newbies.... I think it is awesome when people get into the industry..... I have a problem with the morons who buy the machines to save a buck and think they can make the signs themselves.

I don't think anyone on here would have jumped down the guy’s throat if he was a newbie in the sign industry. But when some guy just wants to save a buck come on.

That’s like bringing a steak with you when you go to a restaurant and saying oh i can cook it myself

Derf

08-25-2006, 11:05 PM

madisonsignguy & Bradster941

What are you two arguing about? it seems like you two speak so loud no one can hear a word you are saying.

Just an out side point of view! I'll be quit now.... Cary on I'll get some popcorn and soda and watch the show now!

iSign

08-25-2006, 11:25 PM

Whew.. don't ya'll get tired of fighting?

It is so common on just about every thread..

KPC...

while I had to admit when I read the post hypothosizing that you were not who you say you are, & merely baiting us... I did have to consider for a second the possible truth in that, based on appearances (which of course are all we have to go on) ...but even giving you the benefit of the doubt on that score, 1 thing stuck out for me in this thread...

First, you received 3 helpful replies right off the bat, no attitude, no accusations, no condescension... just 3 helpful posts in a row from 3 different people... THEN, you went into another long diatribe that continued to bait others (weather intentional or not, weather sincere or not...) WITHOUT ANY ACKNOWLEDGEMENT WHATSOEVER of the 3 helpful posts.

After piling 2 posts in a row, & with your own increasingly testy attitude... you then received some, not completely unfounded, attitude from the professional sign making camp regarding the "bait" laid out in your 3 posts. Surely this must be what you were after, because even up until now... the antagonistic replies are the ONLY THING YOU RESPOND TO!!! ...Eric just tried, in the midst of the firestorm, to help you & YOU IGNORED HIM COMPLETELY, JUST LIKE THE OTHER THREE HELPFULL POSTS (5 counting Freds, & Bradsters second)

...also, when you go to home depot & ask for help to be a weekend warrior painting your house... the paint guy is

A. GETTING PAID TO ANSWER YOU...

and

B. NOT A PAINTER TO BE OFFENDED BY YOUR "it can't be that hard" attitude, or your intent do do some friends & family business on the side.

If you expect an hour of time from a professional would save you 2 weeks of fuking up... why don't you offer $100 for the training instead of acting like we owe it to you to give you an hour... or risk being insulted by you.

It's not that anyone's business is so fragile that you making crap stickers at any price (or no price) would ever hurt us... it's just that crap stickers shouldn't exist, they are pollution... just like you admittedly expect your own first attempt at your own truck signs to be.

Pride in painting your own living room (or wiring it) is one thing... but taking some misplaced pride in sticking crappy ineffective attempts at advertising on your company trucks, is not only misplaced pride, it is POOR BUSINESS!! Stick to the living room. Crappy signs are pollution & that hurts everyone!

The other thing that bothers me in this thread is to find out that Bradster feels like any less of an important member. I don't try to keep track of peoples differences, but when I see a familiar name I just see them as "one of us" ... & I also thank Bradster for his vote of confidence that I was one he would expect to find a helpful reply from. While I would hate to tarnish that reputation, I also know I earned it through being someone who is helpful... but I'm also well known for being opinionated... so this reply may not appear to be the most constructive criticism... but, I call 'em like I see 'em!

Pro Image

08-25-2006, 11:51 PM

KPC I'm not bashing you..........If you don't have the capacity to use Corel to make the contour cut line the you need to spend about 4200.00 on Flexi Sign Pro or Inspire XP PRO for 750.00...........These programs make it "EASIER" for a untrained person to do the job you have ask of your machine. And they also come with user manuals that are just for sign making..............As the a previous posted stated pay a professional to come and TRAIN you on your machin.............Go to Roland's website and find a dealer near you and call them and ask for some traing.......Its not that hard and you'll learn something too...............

Pro Image

08-25-2006, 11:52 PM

Doug that is a great post too......................:thumb:

Techman

08-26-2006, 12:18 AM

where they were so quick to shoot down a newbie.

It aint the newbie thing thats put people off.. Its the condesending attitude that is turning people off..

You haven't got time, you want shortcuts, you want,, you want, you want,,
Then you goto the picked on mode. It won't work,..

You are asking for something that cannot be given in a 5 minute lesson. You do not know what a vector is, You do not understand a cut line, you do not know your software, and you do not understand your equipment.. You are asking for what which will take a day to two.. I suggest offering to pay someone to tutor you and you may get some respect.. So, good luck..

Fred Weiss

08-26-2006, 12:48 AM

KPC - As the guy that runs this forum I would point to you that you have had your initial question responded to correctly no less than six times already without any acknowledgement from you. You make numerous contradictory statements which in most people raise their temperature and suspicion level a bit. You put forth an attitude which on several rereads can only be described as insulting to any professional signcrafter or to those many among our ranks who are striving to be.

You indicate that the procedures of our craft are easy yet you obviously haven't come to the table prepared with the slightest hint of the basics of the art or technology we spend years attempting to master. As a 20+ year veteran of computer signmaking and having read hundreds of arrogant, lazy posts such as yours in the three years I've been running this forum by the daytrippers who visit and disappear, I can honestly understand why you have received such a mixed reception.

Do you?

First and foremost, you seem to have some sort of a feeling of entitlement to receiving help. You have not contributed squat to our community in the way of helping others. You also seem to feel that you are entitled to nothing but friendly reactions no matter how insulting the underlying but obvious mindset is that most will draw from the words you post.

You don't have time to be bothered with the learning curve. There must be some DVD that tells it all as Cliff Notes does for classic literature. This is all really very simple (even if I don't have a clue as to how the technology works). Oh, and I do love a heated argument much more than responding to or even demonstrating average courtesy when some do take the time to directly supply me the answers I was seeking.

You are wasting our time and yours by seeking answers here to intermediate level issues when you lack even a novice's experience level coupled with a rude attitude or at least a total lack of perception of how your words will cause others to react.

Now, here again is what you need to know. There are bitmap images and there are vectors. Whenever you have a vector ... that's a good thing because vectors can not only produce excellent printed images, they also are required to drive a plotter. The second thing you need to know is that Roland plotters like to be driven from specially designated vectors. Some users make them special with a hairline stroke, some use a special color.

Come back and say thank you after you've digested this and gotten it to work. If your attitude has improved, you'll be welcome. If not, we wish you well anyway.

2NinerNiner2

08-26-2006, 01:02 AM

To all those that picked up the Yellow Pages and called and supported their local plumber, electrician, carpenter, cabinet maker, painter, siding installer, roofer, auto mechanic, etc. for those "little items" to do around the shop or house, please cast the first stone! :) The hipocracy in this thread is a getting just a little thick! :)

KPC - do as mentioned here, go to the Roland site, register (it's free :) and get the instructions on how to add a cut-line to your artwork. There are specific, step-by-step instructions on how to accomplish this in CorelDRAW. :) And BTW, bonjour de Montréal :)

IntrezaDesigns

08-26-2006, 01:07 AM

I must say when I first came to this form I was a little scared about asking questions and such. I have learned a great deal from this form already and I have given some information back to the people on this form, But for someone to come here and ask for help then get pissy and not offer anything is pointless if you notice most members are active within this community and how do you expect them to act when being "baited" like fred and many others have said, if you can't support us then why support you, your looking for a cheap way out of the matter and it's not going to happen.

madisonsignguy

08-26-2006, 01:10 AM

Well actually I do get the Yellow pages for all of that. My time is worth more money to me and I'd rather let an expert do it.

Plus when I go to the mechanic or call the plumber there is a good chance that when we start talking I might become their signguy.

Pro Signs & Graphix

08-26-2006, 02:01 AM

Bradster,
There is nothing wrong with in-house, and there is nothing wrong with newbies (hobby people included). I, as one of the "original" posters you mention, have no problem with any of those.

I have a problem when someone puts a cart before the horse (as Gino put it), and then turns around and asks for help. KPC should have done a little bit more research. This would be the same as KPC purchasing a tractor and some land and THEN asking questions about how to quickly start farming.

For years I had people approaching me and asking about how to repair their own vehicles. I heard every story in the book. Even if it is for themselves, they are still competing with the professional. In itself, that approach is insulting. It is as if saying that you are not worth the cost, and that talent is easily replicated.

Moreover, if KPC is in business, why would he want unprofessional looking work on his vehicles or at the trade shows. Image is everything. He should be spending/investing money and time to get the process down pat. Instead KPC indicates that he is to busy to invest the required time - even more of an insult.

DIY means just that - Do it yourself. If everything was so easy and free Home Depot would have a department for signage equipment.

signage

08-26-2006, 02:10 AM

Also if KCP has a business he should have listed it in his profile! Just one more thing to make us wonder.

technowolf

08-26-2006, 02:42 AM

hey,
i think i am gonna go bye myself a radio station so can advertise myself onece a week...........

KPC

08-26-2006, 11:05 AM

Well I do apologize for so-called getting testy at the fact of the "few" members who gave me attitude.

From an outsider’s point of view, it works on the same idea, that you might make 99 / 100 customers happy. Only 1/2 of those 99 people will tell another person how happy they are with your work. But for that 1 person who feels like they got screwed, they are going to do everything that they can to tell 200 people how you screwed them over.

With that said, sure, there might be a few people right off the bat that were kind, welcoming, and helpful, but as soon as the first person treats you like crap on your very first post on a new forum, it is like a blind-sided hit below the waist.

When someone said, how it seems as though I am owed "for free" the privilege of being welcomed into someone’s well established professional sign making business, so that I can shadow them for an hour or 2 to "learn the rope", walk out of the business, with nothing more than a thanks, if that is how you see it, then again as it has happened more than once, you are missing the point.

Just as I said on the industrial coating forums, there is an even mix of both complete amateurs, and multi-million dollar businesses.

Sure, it is understood, that the multi-million dollar businesses are going to be quick to say, why don't you leave it up to the professionals to do your coatings. But for the 1 person that says that, there are 5 other people that do not do industrial coatings for a living, but rather do their own parts in the basement of their house or outside in the garage. You'll find these amateurs friendly welcoming the newbie over to their house, showing them the ropes out back in their garage or basement.

All that is asked is bring over a pizza or beer. Many amateurs are just happy to have someone in their area who takes an interest in the same things they do.

It is just like if I joined a forum called "housepainting101". I go on there because I don't know how to paint the living room in my house. Sure there are going to be the professionals, but you never know, maybe my next door neighbor might be on the forum because he had no idea how to paint his living room, a month or two ago. After getting the rough idea how to do it, he does his own living room. When he sees that I’m on the forum in the same boat he was in a month or two ago, he welcomes me to stop over, and shows me the tips / tricks / techniques that he used on his living room painting job.

From an outsiders perspective, the main problem that I see is that everyone on here seems to be a little too professional. I'm sure in a way that is good, and in a way might be intended by the professionals to push away / intimidate the amateurs in order to keep the professionals on top and the amateurs at a distance.

Put it this way, say I get to the point where I decently "know the ropes" on using the software and machine. If I stick around long enough on this forum, and someone comes on here in my area and posts the same message that I originally posted. I would be the first person to say, hey, maybe this weekend when I get some free time, you can shoot over to my place and I'll show you how to spit out a few stickers.

For that person who has no idea how to use their machine, that feels like 150lbs was lifted off their back.

I myself, don’t give a care if the person spent $200 on a machine or $20k on something that he / she has absolutely no idea how to use. I’d be glad to have someone over who takes an interest in the same hobby as I do.

However, just as if someone came onto the industrial coatings forum who was a complete amateur and asked for help, I’m not going to reply or even show them that I exist in their area because there is no chance that I'm going to welcome them to my shop even if they offer me $200 / hr for training. BUT as I just said, I wouldn’t say anything. Although I might not welcome them to my shop, I’m not going to bash them either. It is a free world and if they want to do industrial coatings 3 blocks down from me in the basement of their house, that is fine by me. Sure, would I make money if they came to me instead of doing it themselves, YES, but if they want to do-it-themselves, and ask someone else in my area who also does it themselves for help, what can I do about it? Go on there and treat the both of them like crap because they are asking / looking for help in my area just because they are amateurs. Life is too short. Who cares. They are happy and they are not driving me / my business under water. I’m just going to let them be.

The difference is amateur to amateur help, vs. an amateur asking to come shadow a professional shop.

When I said, I just wish someone in a 150 mile radius would welcome me to their house / shop, I mean that there has to be hundreds of other guys / gals out there, that own a semi-decent machine, not a $400 cheapo and not a $200k machine, that uses their machine as a hobby to make stickers (Decals) for the side of their dirt bike.

The message conveyed to me so far, is that by posting on this forum, I have so-called, opened the front door of the local country club and walked in without being welcomed by another club member. However, because I am just the average Joe, everyone stops talking, sets down their drink or whatever they were doing at that moment, and turns around and stares right at me, immediately giving me the feeling like what are you doing here fool. You are a lower class than us, you do not belong here, and you bring nothing to this club, so leave now.

As said before, this forum has done an excellent job of intimidating the average zero-experience do-it-yourselfer. Regardless if the person only purchased a machine because they want to take pride in making a few decals to put on the side of their own dirt bike.

When spending the past few days reading on the forum, everyone immediately knocks down the guys who buy the cheap $500 machines because they don't track right, they are made in China, they break, the person you call doesn't speak fluent English, etc...

So the reason I said in my initial post to please be nice, is simply because I feel that although I don't have formal training, I did the "Right" thing by buying a machine that was at the upper limit of my budget and it is name brand machine that most of the professionals recommend for being of better quality than the "animal" named machines.

It was a way of me stating, although I don't have actual graphic experience right off the bat, I did enough research to at least start off with good equipment. It would be more than appreciative if someone could point me in the right direction how to use it.

If this is "putting the cart before the horse" in some peoples eyes, that is fine. I've always believed that it doesn't matter how experienced someone is, if they work with junk equipment, they will get junk results.

So by at least starting out with a quality machine, as I get better at using the software, the end result will only get equally better. I’m not being held back because I own a junk machine that isn’t capable of producing better results. I believe this is doing things the right way.

To the people who have been helpful, I do appreciate the help. I will use this advice to try to better myself. I will say though, that for the others who slap the newbie for not knowing anything, that it is you people who make the forum appear degrading as a whole.

For those people, if what you do is intentional, then there is little that I can say to make any change. However, if your derogatory attitude comes naturally, then maybe you need to step back and look at your actions from an outsider’s point of view. Some day you will be in my situation where you just want to do something as a hobby, regardless if it is painting your living room, or fixing your computer. You’ll anxiously join a forum because you’ll feel that answers to your problems are just a few clicks away. You no more than so-called walk in the door (join the forum) and people slam you to the floor, kick you, make fun of you, so you run out of the door, black and blue eye, wondering whoa what the F**K just happened. I thought I was gonna get some friendly help and I get a beat down instead.

If you can be humble enough to sit back and truly look at it, I bet I’m not that far off with my outlook.

Just something to think about if you guys care for this forum to be welcoming to all, regardless if they are professionals or amateurs.

My $.02

KPC

08-26-2006, 11:14 AM

As for the guy who said about buying a radio station so that he can advertise his business once a week.

Are there any people out there, who build a separate garage off the side of their house, install a $5,000 vehicle lift, $2,000 air compressor, $1,000 worth of tire changing equipment, $10,000 in snap-on tools, etc...? They do all of this just because they enjoy the idea of being able to work on their own cars.

How about the retired gentleman who hasn't done any wood working since he was in high school 50+ years ago.

But he goes out and drops nearly $50K on woodworking equipment, for his shop out back, because he wants to be able to make a new set of kitchen cabinets. He wants to make his own wood trim floorboards.

Can you go to your local home improvement store, and buy the wood trim for $.50 a foot? Sure... Not including the cost of the equipment, just for the retired guy to buy materials, pay the electric bill, etc... to make his own floor trim, he has $1.50 tied up per foot.

Is that going to cause him to not buy the equipment, even though he hasn't had any experience working with wood crafting in 50+ years and that he can buy the finished product for cheaper? NO, that isn't enough to cause him to not buy the equipment or even waste money doing-it-himself

It is a hobby to some. Regardless if it is something that they come to with previous experience, or if it is something that they haven't done in over 50+ years, some people like to do things themselves.

A few things to think about from this outsider’s point of view.

DJDesigns

08-26-2006, 11:48 AM

I don't say much, but the main thing I saw where you started your downfall was the comment - I don't have the time to "self learn" how to become semi-decent in the world-of-signs

You say so called amateur, well that means trial and error will be your best learning tool.

Back on the topic - I did a search on Yahoo - this is what I typed, cutting with roland pc600
And low and behold the very first link led me to a source that told exactly what you need to know. It led me to the exact page on signsupplystore.com with a pdf titled PC600 Setting a Cut Line

So go check that out and it will tell you step by step what you need to know. But I semi agree with some statements, the main issue I saw was your blatant disreguard for the time to learn something, that can be self taught, like half the examples you listed with just trial and error and learning from your mistakes. Also instead of breaking into the argument on post 9 you should have asked for more details if needed to the helpful information you recieved and things would have worked out quicker and better for you.

Fred Weiss

08-26-2006, 12:04 PM

Taking your metaphor, you walk through the doors of the country club and announce yourself. Some people already there turn and issue a friendly greeting. Others turn and take exception to the things you said when you announced yourself. You launch into arguing with the latter group and ignoring the welcomers. In the end, you have worn out your welcome with many in the former group and have established to all that you have an attitude and lack certain manners that most among us have mastered.

This forum is a community. Anyone can move here. Some will be gregarious and make lots of friends. Some will keep mostly to themselves. And some will be abrasive and/or ill-mannered and will not get along with most of their neighbors.

You have missed the point completely as to this community. We have lots of parttimers and hobbyists among us who are spread among the personality types listed above. We also have lots of seasoned professionals ... again, who are spread among the personality types listed above.

You entered our community and, with or without realizing it, posted some statements which were abrasive and insulting to many. You got a predictable reaction. You can either come to terms with that or not ... makes no nevermind to me. But it isn't the fault of Signs 101. We are what we are (which we think is pretty much okay). We are not seeking advice or counsel on how to make you feel at home because we manage to accomplish that with no difficulty a couple of hundred times a month.

The responsibility for the fracas you've experienced rests totally with you. You're welcome to residency in our community and to enjoy the benefits of citizenship. You are not entitled to friendship, respect or even courtesy. Those are all human emotions which are normally earned through positive behavior.

KPC

08-26-2006, 12:08 PM

I agree with the last post. It was a bad choice of wording on my part.

Maybe I jumped to early into asking for help before doing more research, or maybe I just came on here looking as though I didn't care to learn on my own. It was more of a frustration, because I had spent over 2 days trying to figure out how to at least print and cut my very first decal, and I couldn't get it to work.

Regardless if it takes 2 days, 10 days, or 10 years, when you buy a piece of equipment and you spend hours and hours and can't get it to do the most basic function, it builds a great deal of frustration.

I hope that even if I said this 15 posts too late, that it is better said than not said at all.

I very much apprecaite the "cutting with roland pc600" on yahoo. I will do a search on that, and as for the Roland forum, the gears turn slow over there. I'm still waiting to get authorized on the forum.

Jillbeans

08-26-2006, 12:26 PM

I just hope the Roland doesn't short out on your home-wired electricity.

Hey if you want your new stickers to look really nice, print them in red on white Avery A8...it's great material.
And use an effective font, say Brush Script, in all caps for that professional look.
Be sure to run the lettering right out to the edges of your material, to make the best use of your advertising dollar.

:cool1:

Jill

Bradster941

08-26-2006, 12:44 PM

KPC

08-26-2006, 12:50 PM

Jill, do you feel good saying that? Seriously... So I need a professional to print out small decals. I need a professional to print out a decal for the side of my truck? I hope it makes you feel good to feed bad information. Thank God that I spent a little time doing some research because for the person who did no research, they would take you to be serious. Do you think it is time to grow up?

With you past comment about only using Gerber. The way you said that, it is like elementry kids who says, my bookbag is cooler than yours. What maturity level are you really on?

Such a shame..

Jillbeans

08-26-2006, 12:55 PM

Well it brought me some comfort.

Don't get me wrong.
I have no problems with hobbyists or grannies with a plotter as they really are not much competiton to me.
I have been a Letterhead for well over 12 years, and hosted meets to teach and welcome Newbies into the CRAFT of sign making.
What bugged me was his attitude of it being easy.
True, you don't even need to know how to spell to crank vynull out of a plotter.
But first saying you want a professional look, and then trying to achieve it on your own, even if it is a one-off, is offensive to me as a sign maker.
It has taken me literally years of hard work, research, and study to get where I am today in the sign industry.
If I need something done that I don't know how to do, I look in the yellow pages.
He did not acknowledge any of the first attempts to help him either.
I just figured he would soon be needing design advice since he can probably run his Roland on his own.

love....Jill

PS
As a painter, first and foremost, I got a Gerber 4B to make stickers and pounce patterns.
It's a dinosaur.
Anyone who knows me knows that I couldn't care less about the plotter I use as long as it runs right.
I mentioned Gerber because I don't know anything about Roland.

Do whatever you want with your little toy.
I'm sure your decals will look swell.
Have a nice life.
:U Rock:

DanStriker

08-26-2006, 02:14 PM

kpc just so you know and this is not nonsense you did not buy a quality machine, you paid too much for a machine that should have never been introduced into the sign industry. it is extremely expensive to operate, it produces a mediocre quality of product and is totally unreliable and prone to frequent repair....just fyi and just a tip to get you going assign a specific oddball color in your color palette as your conture cut color, and create your vector in that color so that the plotter recognizes it and it will cut, but VERY VERY slowly...it is the nature of that machine.

madisonsignguy

08-26-2006, 03:35 PM

And yea unless it's one of those no fear -- get er dune, fair decals then you do need a professional. Why would you put something on the side of your truck, if it's for your business, When you have never studied design or advertising?

And there is a difference between someone doing it for a hobby like the woodworker and someone pretending to be a professional and producing work for their company and their friens company.

And what the hell a Pizza and beer? Yea I'm gonna give away knoweledge that cost me 4 years worth of student loans and countless shitty jobs to learn what I Know.

Go get a frickin Job at Sign a Rama if you want to know how to cut "STICKERS"

iSign

08-26-2006, 03:44 PM

if I had suspicions of baiting before, I'll retract them. While agreeably abrasive, KPC has spent far too long attempting to clarify his position for me to believe it a fabrication.

As an individual quite often found to be abrasive myself, & sometimes without intending to, I can look past his initial first impression & welcome KPC.

I can also say that if KPC follows through with the "new leaf" turned over in a more recent post... I have seen here often that others will also respond in kind & the information will flow more freely.

In fact new begginnings are so easy to come by if you really realize that you reap what you sow... just let this trainwreck thread go & start a new one.

I think Fred's country club analogy was so succinct in addressing the way your reactions to the negative posts set the tone of the thread. Jills post for example could have been ignored. I have seen Jill help others as much as anyone on any forum, & while I can be helpful at times... I seen myself slip into the human flaws of sarcasm or condescension far more then most. I also do what you did KPC... if there is conflict, I dive right in & fan the fires, so I'm not judging you for that, but don't blame the forum. We are all individuals, this is anarchy, but we all co-create our experience. If you don't want conflict, don't participate in it.

By the way, I didn't want to say it first... but Dan is telling you the truth, while the Roland name is generally considered one of the more reliable names in sign equipment... the PC600 was much more famous among sign professionals as being less then ideal. However even with the high cost per square foot for the printing technology... it is a machine capable of highly professional results. Good luck with yours.

Cadmn

08-26-2006, 05:42 PM

as stated many posted you needed a vector, you ignored that info & whent on to explain how it couldn't be that hard its not if you listen next question may have been do I produce a vector around my entire image? then you might have ended with a step by step or you might just run down to Fast signs & ask questions, they are real nice people/franchise & bradster who plucked your tail feather? Kpc keeps discussing the amateurs go call one of the franchises an ameteur<sp>you usually get in this business in 2 ways grow/fall or pay dearly & some did both a franchise is 100K+

Pro Image

08-26-2006, 06:03 PM

I need a professional to print out a decal for the side of my truck?

You Image is everything............If I was looking for a shop to refinish my chrome bumpers off my 63 Olds.........You come to pick them up in you truck and I notice that the lettering looks like 3 blind men with weedwackers lettered you truck. I ask you who did the lettering? Your reply "ME"........Do you honestly think I'm going to let you work on my bumpers? I don't think so.........

what a cliché but you only have one chance to make a first impression...........What impression do you want to make?

If it takes a PRO to make you identity something special then thats the way I would go.........If you want to have a lettering job that look like shit well thats your decision...............:thankyou: and come back again...........:thumb:

Gino

08-28-2006, 04:30 PM

Well KPC, I had time to think about this over the weekend. My take on this situation may probably be more personal then some, since I view this industry with a passion. I’ve lived it a long time. Answers such as Jill’s… I find on the light side. If those few words demoralized you to such an extent, what kind of advice or training do you expect ?? Are you another person that needs to be handled with kids’ gloves ??

I don’t care if the guy next to me is an airbrush artist, computer graphics designer, a hobbyist, newbie, seasoned veteran, tube bender… and the list goes on. The amount of knowledge you have when you begin something is usually about nil.. and with some people that number doesn’t go too high after years of being at it. My time has been spent over the years making signs, learning, teaching others, learning some more, and helping, via hands on, by phone or via the Internet. I will always try to help; it’s my upbringing and nature. Some of the people that you referred to in your threads do argue and fight with each other, but that is not something the new kid on the block should be pointing out. Your bedside manners lack many things.

The main thing you don’t lack is your two faced statements. I reread your posts yesterday from home, and although I was the first person to step on your toes [and far from the last], I don’t think sugarcoating your statements and feeble attempt to apologize to those that had an ‘attitude’ towards you held any merit whatsoever.

You’ve expressed an interest to come into this field, but later confessed, with sheep’s clothing of a different motive. I’m at the point… I don’t think you even have another business. How could anyone survive in any business with behavior such as yours ??

You’ve been given more knowledge than you realize and still haven’t put it to use. You react well when the administrator talks, so you do understand rules, you just don’t like being picked apart and being shown your true colors.

I have a question for you. You don’t need to answer, because I probably won’t believe your answer, but I just want to get this off of my chest. If you know so little about all of this, how is it you know information that may or may not be useful to you from post #62 ?? In only 27 hours and 13 posts, you’ve gone from nothing to already becoming an expert on sign people and our industry. You are truly amazing. It just depends on which side of the pile you’re standing. :Sleeping:

Bradster941

08-28-2006, 10:00 PM

GINO,

You have done Everything you possibly can to cause trouble here. You just can’t let a sleeping Dog lay.

Starting it all with your post #7, you cut and paste selective things to make a negative situation out of someone that was just looking for a little help so you can Bash him. What’s worst, when you have nothing of substance, you make up words and assign them to who your Bashing.

“AND
I'm going to be hurting the general public by someone paying me for a 1/2 quality sign.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but he didn’t say he bought his Roland knowing nothing about nothing so he could make signs or stickers to sell to anyone. He simply wanted to print and cut some (admittedly low quality door signs) for Himself. But their were those of you that wanted to bash because this person couldn’t possibly produce the quality work that you can and thus shouldn’t be doing it. I agree, he, like I, can’t produce the high quality images you can, but exactly who are you to tell me I shouldn’t do it if I want but instead come to you. ( Good or Bad, I think it’s still his choice Castro).

Knowing nothing about nothing. Yup, he doesn’t. But if you read his post and the terms used in them, it is, (was) clear to me that he took the time to read through the post on this forum trying to get the information he needed before asking the Noob question, “Why won’t my Jpeg Cut?” when I hit Plot. And he used terms that are common to you, the Pro’s. At least he made the effort to try and learn before asking for help unlike so many others.

And to address the other part of the Bitch session;

“you got your answer 3 times, 5 if you include -à and you never acknowledged them.

Well, a Thank You would have been nice but as one that somewhat answered his question at the beginning one would think I would be the most offended. I’m not!. I can see myself being frustrated at trying to make something work and can’t make it do so, so I asked more questions. Then I get Blasted by GINO. I can tell you 6 ways to Sunday I would fire back at GINOs post but honestly, I wouldn’t have been so nice!!!!

GINO, I see you and KPC are in the same area. Is that why your so pissed off that this guy bought a printer / cutter instead of calling you to make his signs? Cause you sure were quick to Bash and Even make up motives for someone else.!. And even as the thread was at rest for a day you, and You alone just had to Bring It Back To Life !….

Now to address the “my motivation for being the Devils advocate”:

On this forum, I bring nothing to the table to contribute in designs or layouts as I’m not in the sign business.
That is unless you consider I am the public your signs will be viewed by.
I’ve study everything that has been posted here in the last 12 months and read every comment made about it and have learned a great deal. I thank you for that.

Who Plucked my Tail Feather Cadmn, sit down for this;

Many of you did.

As Fred said, this is a community of many individuals.

As such it is fair to say that at times the best we can do is to agree to disagree.

In this community, which on a whole is a pretty cool place to be, over and over again I’ve seen where one person, usually a Newcomer, post a question and it is picked apart and turned around by 1 or 2 members and suddenly it is a Free For All to Bash the poster.
Sometimes it’s right on track, like the guy that wanted to trade vectors, other times, it’s not. It’s just one Jerk twisting things around and suddenly it’s a Bash Fest.

It’s like a pack of Wolves around here that one minute your petting, the next minute your having your arm ripped off. All because one wolf didn’t like the scent and decided to attack so the rest join in..

No matter how you look at it, it isn’t right.

And GINO, reading all your post, I wonder what your problem is?:rolleyes:

Have at it boys……. :beer

Cadmn

08-28-2006, 10:26 PM

bradster would you have gone up to Stevie Ray Vaughn & said heck any body can play that, now can you teach me, not the way to get help & most come in with this attitude & treat a profession with No respect. walk up to Mike Tyson & tell him your gonna knock him out & see how long you last. if it was soo easy then why does he need to ask ?

Bradster941

08-28-2006, 10:40 PM

Thank God I didn't waist any postage on this. : (

Pro Signs & Graphix

08-28-2006, 11:52 PM

Bradster,

You are correct in saying that we are all a group of many personalities.

When a new person comes along (here), they are usually welcomed with open arms. We do not need to tell you this, as you have seen and experienced this yourself time and time again. We use the word "usually" BECAUSE KPC himself wrote:

I didn't buy this machine to go into the sign making business

One thing that sets my current business apart from the competition is that we always present ourselves as being very professional in both attitude and appearance.

I don’t have the time to close up my business

I can't see it being difficult by any means, to produce a simple "Text Only" sign for the side of a normal utility work van

I don't have the time to "self learn" how to become semi-decent in the world-of-signs

I feel like I'm running out of options. It's getting down to the point where I wish I could find someone in a 150 mile radius that would welcome me to their shop / home to show me the ropes

...all long before Gino or myself even posted. To me those coments are offensive and insulting. By no means do I hold the status of many others that I dearly respect and admire on here BUT I worked very hard to learn, as should everybody. KPC kept contradicting himself all along the way, all while expressing that he did not want to "invest" the necessary time.

I do not think that Gino and KPC being in PA has anything to do with it.

Here is another example. One of my younger brothers has a tranny go in his Camaro, 15 years ago. It is Friday night. Without question I get him a tranny and we proceed to install - until his GF wanted to go bar-hopping. It was expected that I would stay (away from my wife) and install the trans while they went partying. When I objected - his response was that "he already worked his 40 hours that week." (My average week was 75 hours.)

Now guess what I did next...........................

IntrezaDesigns

08-29-2006, 12:24 AM

It's obvious this guy has no respect for us and he thinks our profession is easy so let the cat bit his tongue when he installs his stickers or lettering and it comes out like bubble gum city, nothing comes easy in this world and if he wants to try his fingers in our profession, his work will speak from itself. simple don't even give this dude the time of day guys no matter how hard we try or talk he still has pig headed remarks... once and ass always an ass remember that.

OldPaint

08-29-2006, 03:14 AM

i think what KPC is doing....is lookin for another line of work!!!!! and not being totally up front with us.
industrial coatings...huh.........my wife works for one of the largest companies WHO DOES INDUSTRIAL COATINGS....ALL OVER THE U.S.A. and few foriegn countries, and they employee a lot of sub workers.....guys who do the work.....and are "contract labor" ......and these guys call themselves a business.
also what was said about the PC-600, IS TRUE..whoever sold it to you ......STUCK IT TO YOU!!! not an example of rolands best.
i have only roland plotters....PNC-1100'S one of the best that roland made........so i can say i luv rolands....
but i wouldnt buy what you got...
inthe long run..you would be futher ahead to get a good sign guy to letter up youre truck(i do all the signs for the company my wife works for)and i leave them to any industrial coatings on water tanks and towers....

IntrezaDesigns

08-29-2006, 08:08 AM

^=-=- its like anything if you came to my house to do a job with hand stuck on letters from walmart and then another guy came with a professional looking job with his doors and back done, I would pick the guy with the professional looking job, it shows he took the time and money to get it done. Now a days image and apperance is EVERYTHING!

Gino

08-29-2006, 05:01 PM

Hi Ho, young Bradster… I sure hope you’re not pulling the same trick some others did here a few weeks ago.

That being said, if I’ve offended you, I’m sorry, but there is a condition to that apology. I’m sorry only, if I did it out of malice or was not attacked first by you. I don’t think other than some fun statements or comments towards others on this site that I’ve purposely gotten on anyone’s case without just cause in the last few months. I have, and will continue, to call them as I see them.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, on this site knows right from wrong. If you, or they don’t, then I have no time or use for that individual or the likes. I don’t feel I need to give you my philosophy on life or business, but you seem to be a little mixed up about my statements, so here goes.

This place is not a popularity contest for those who do nice work. It’s a place to ask for help, receive help, compare ideas, discuss problems, find new vendors or ideas, but most of all… a place where people of the same mindset can get together on any level and can relate to each other. I’m sure Fred has far better ways of describing ‘Signs 101’, but that’s my take on it. Therefore, you really shouldn’t compare KPC to me or any others on this site, since you really can’t get the truth about him. I have nothing against his being a newbie, a hobbyist or anything else he wants to call himself. I simply don’t like a liar and that’s all he has shown thus far. I can totally disagree with another’s views on conducting business, methods of doing signs or even his brand of beer, but again, I don’t like a liar. Repeatedly, he has shown those tendencies as I have pointed out as well as almost everyone else here as to his true colors. I’m not the sergeant-of-arms here at :signs101: and have no idea what you see in this KPC, but that’s entirely up to you who you pick as friends.

I’d like to answer some of your other accusations, but frankly, they don’t make sense to me. :help:

Again, I don’t view this as bashing a newbie by any means. I also don’t think, a select few here bash newbies, either. If they [newbies] can’t take constructive criticism, then that’s just too bad. I’ve never been accused of being tactful, just honest and to the point and if the truth hurts, well, so be it.

Your take on this whole matter puzzles me, Bradster. If you’re everything you claim you are and also don’t know anything about this industry, why is it impossible for you to be the only person here that doesn’t recognize the facts ?? Also, why in your last thread does it sound like your actually talking as if you were KPC ?? Now I’m confused… or it's 'Twilight Zone' time.

Anyway, bringing a thread back to life was explained in my first sentence… so please go back and read it again. I’ve seen threads brought back after weeks, months and more. I’m sorry, but I didn’t know of that rule.

Now, for your most ridiculous statement of all. I have no problem with a competitor opening up across the street, even if he knows what he’s talking about or has talent. Many of our customers are other sign companies around town, in neighboring towns and even some down where you are, if you’re indeed from Florida. Our retail customers come from all around the area and are both local and national accounts for us. No, we have no competitors in the area that are even remotely at odds with us. Many of the other sign companies use us as a satellite shop from time to time. We do quite a bit of third party work for companies from all over the country. No Bradster, you’re barking up the wrong tree on all counts with your accusations. Next time get your facts straight before you go around pointing fingers. Once you understand a situation fully, then start throwing your weight around. It doesn’t take a sign person to see through KPC’s farce. I’m surprised you can’t. :thankyou:

Flame

08-29-2006, 05:11 PM

:Big Laugh :Big Laugh :Big Laugh :Big Laugh :Big Laugh

Sign people think they're such artists. hahahaha

Wake up folks. We aren't better than anyone else. We're just people who have done our job enough times we're good at it. I get the feeling a lot of you feel like you're "special". How so? Cuz you make a living making signs? Big deal. It's just a JOB.

Lay off. Everyone knows a job isn't easy right away, it takes practice. Some catch on sooner than others, but it's just like anything else in life.

Oh yeah... and Bradster, you have me confused on this one. Not in a bad way really, just confused.

And OP... oh never mind.

This is funny. And people don't think it's newbie bashing.:Big Laugh I guess it's my turn to be bashed now though...:Sleeping:

Pro Signs & Graphix

08-29-2006, 06:43 PM

It's just a JOB.

Flame - For years people would say that I was just "a mechanic". Then all of a sudden everybody wanted to be my "friend". In any business there are lessons to be learned - and they cost some way or form. Invest nothing - get nothing.

Maybe in the case of clicking on "print" it can be considered a job. Come on now.....are your mc graphics just a "job"? You know better than that !LOL!

If your work is just a job, send me your files so that I may cruise the moto-x events....!LOL!

madisonsignguy

08-29-2006, 06:53 PM

Yea just a Job, Come on.....

Working at Mcdonalds is just a job.

And what about when it's your company, is it still just a Job.

When you find something you are really good and enjoy doing it stops being just a job. If it is just a job to you, then maybe you should figure out what makes you happy and go do that.

Bradster941

08-29-2006, 07:30 PM

Thanks GINO, at 42 years old I don’t get called young so much anymore.

No, I don’t like LIARS either, so I’ll ask one last time where KPC said;

“I'm going to be hurting the general public by someone paying me for a 1/2 quality sign.”

If it’s there somewhere and I missed it, then I apologize for accusing you of making it up.
If it’s not, then you in RED made a quote of KPCs words that he never spoke. That Sir, makes you the LIAR.

I could easily take your last post apart with cut and paste and make it look anyway I want just like you have done, with total disregard of how you meant it, but why waste my time?

Quote KPC. Right up front.

“What is this average Joe supposed to do? I'm not looking to do this as a business, so it isn't like I'm going to be hurting the general public by someone over paying me for a cheap quality sign. I just want to use the machine for advertising my current industrial coatings business.”

If you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with me. As stated I’m not in the sign business but am fascinated by it. I have a cheap’o plotter and enjoy trying to be creative and produce something of quality for myself, my wife’s car, and to date my neighbors boss which I checked here on Signs 101 with the other members not so much on design, but on price so that I wouldn’t be Low Balling legitimate established wonderful multi state businesses like yours.

So here we are, KPC wasn’t Signs 101 Politically Correct and you were quick to tear him a new one. Despite your comment on how you are so willing to help others, I see nowhere in this thread where you have offered anything in the arena of being “Helpful”. So don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back.

On a closing note, the comments you made about and alluded to toward me are, well, upon reproach and I will not dignify them with a response. Your just trying to paint a picture that you want everyone else to see the way you wish them to see it like in post #7. Wolf Wolf.
I have been here long enough and made enough post that my “True Colors” and “Integrity” are well known among the members of tenure status and as for the rest, a simple search option of my name will reveal all post, ( good and bad), made by me for review for the remaining members to draw their own opinion.

Now, I ask again, where did KPC say;

“I'm going to be hurting the general public by someone paying me for a 1/2 quality sign.”

I would hate to think you manipulate this environment with a LIE.

That would make you, a, what’s the word?

Dave Drane

08-29-2006, 07:36 PM

True, you don't even need to know how to spell to crank vynull out of a plotter.

:Big Laugh Jill, I think the term he used was "spit" a few stickers out. I detest that term, probably because when I entered this trade one had to actually learn letter construction first and then put it to good use.:Sleeping:

Pro Signs & Graphix

08-29-2006, 09:38 PM

Working at Mcdonalds is just a job

Not when you have fifty people that want to eat :Big Laugh

THATgirl

08-29-2006, 09:57 PM

Actually I know a few sign people whos jobs are 'just a job'. Nope they don't make beautiful hand crafted pieces of art....they are 'just signs' and they are making good money. And......in all honesty the most talented sign people I know are not making squat. Let's face it...most signs these days are 'just signs' and it is 'just a job' to the majority. To the few sign people who still have the passion for great looking signs...I understand the frustration with so many people coming into the business knowing nothing. But on the other hand......didn't we all start somewhere?
When I started handpainting in 76 I went and met all the other sign painters in the area. Most were very nice. One told me 'get out of the business before you even attempt to start. You will never make a living as it is a mans job.' Well...he made me mad and by telling me not to do it and that I 'couldn't' make a living at it....I wanted to prove him wrong which I have managed to do for the past 30 years. He went out of business a long time ago.
So I guess what I am attempting to say is don't be so snobbish to those trying to get into the business. Didn't you go watch and learn from other signpainters years ago? I know I did.

KPC

08-30-2006, 12:49 AM

Hello all, I hope everyone had a good weekend. I haven't been on here to check the status of this thread in a few days.

It is nice to see that some people are opening up to this newbie. I appreciate that. I haven't had much time over the past few days to mess around with this machine so I can't add any good / bad news about how it is coming along.

As I've read over what some people have said, although it is nice to see some people are warming up, it is really hard to continue to comment on all this positively when in my eyes there is still so much negativity behind this ever growing thread.

As for the comments about bradster being the same person as myself, sorry but this just isn't the case. Although I don't know if this is forum policy or not, I'm sure the main admin can testify that we are not the same person. Either from IP addresses being from two different locations, or something. Yes you could go all CSI and say that someone I know is located where bradster is from, and I email that person and tell them what to post, etc... But the simple truth is that before joining this forum a few days ago, and a few days prior to that which I spent doing a little research about trying to figure this machine out on my own, I've never even knew this forum existed, let alone bradster himself.

I'm sure that the people who call me a liar will not see past this and further reinforce my cruel intent to single handedly destroy the sign making industry. mwahhahahaha.

That is a shame because the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth was that I picked up a machine, admittedly not knowing much at all about how to use it, I planned on using this machine to produce (decals) to slap on the side of my trucks / make small stickers to pass out at trade shows, have a stack of stickers sitting on the shelf at my shop and give them out if a customer wants one / two. If my family or friends wants some small stickers / decals made, I'd do it for little to no charge at all. After receiving the machine and spending a few days trying to figure it out on my own, I came to this forum frustrated and in search of some help.

Not some help in the form that I told some customers that I could produce a bunch of graphic degree student quality signs for their fleet of trucks, and seeing how I can't even get the machine to cut the simple sticker, I demand that everyone on this forum collectively drop what they are doing and bend over backwards to get me out of this rut.

I’m not in an immediate rut. I am frustrated because I couldn’t easily get the machine to cut out a few stickers / decals. I didn’t know anything about vectoring and such...

NO. In my eyes, I admittedly came to this forum frustrated and looking for a few people to say something on the lines of:

"Hi there newbie. Welcome to the forum. Looks like you’re having some difficulties with your new machine. Sometimes the best advice is to take a break from it for a little bit, grab a cup of coffee, and try it all again a few hours later. Also, good choice on that machine by the way. I'm sure you know that the machine is slightly outdated, but a few good things are that it is made by a reputable company, there are still plenty of sign shops using these which means parts are available for it, and is still a large enough machine that it will be something that you can grow into. As for the frustration your having, have no fear, you've come to the right place for help. Let us know what you’re having the most problem with and we'll do our best to get you straightened out."

I'm sure some of you looking at this from the prospective of taking the baby the hand and guiding them along. However with just about every forum that I've ever been to this is how everyone treats everyone.

I can speak with experience that on various industrial forums, I'm in a position with experience and there are newbie’s who come on and ask questions about buying some equipment and not being able to get it working. There are plenty and I can honestly say the majority of people including myself welcome these newbie’s, regardless how inexperienced even if they have nothing to add to the forum. As I've said on an earlier post, the only time which I would not offer any help, would be if the newbie asked if someone could help them hands-on either by the newbie visiting a working shop, or someone with experience going to the newbie.

In this case, both with me being the one that asked this question on this forum and being in the case on other forums where I have the experienced coating shop, I can understand how a experienced shop wants absolutely nothing to do with sharing their experience with a newbie. Even if the newbie offers $50-100 for their help, if the newbie does work for free for family and friends, from that they learned when shadowing the professional shop, that free work could potentially be profit which the shop now lost out on because the newbie did the work instead of the family /friends taking their business to the professionals. Whew that was a wayy too long sentence, but I believe it makes a point.

However, if a newbie asks for hands-on help on one of these industrial coatings, seldom do any of the professional shops start flaming and saying, bring your work to us you fool. The other amateurs, who know enough about coating to do their own work, albeit not a professional, are usually the ones to gladly speak up and say something on the lines of, hey newbie, I'm in your general area and I plan to be out in my garage coating a few parts this weekend. If you want to stop by I'll show ya' how to do it.

In this case, I being the experienced coater just keep my mouth shut simply because although I am unwilling to give hands-on advice / techniques, from a outside perspective, I think it is good that the amateurs who do their own coatings, are willing to help out the newbie’s who also want to do their own work.

To get back on topic with making decals / stickers I've already been told that they are "decals" but to me starting out, I want to produce a simple Sticker.

Essentially, I could have very well got away with purchasing one of those sticka machines at only a few hundred $$’s, but I figured that spending a little more for a machine that is capable of printing as well as cutting, might better serve me if not now, maybe down the road.

All the huff and puff about my lies and how I’m a fool for getting a machine which I want to “spit” out a few stickers, I don't know if I'm blind to my own demise but I simply can't figure out what is so terribly wrong with wanting to produce my own stickers / decals / and at most a banner for my own use when I get a little better at running the machine / software.

What I'm most astounded by is how I'm causing all of these problems by coming to this forum with little knowledge and asking for help with doing the most simple of functions with this machine.

How people can turn around me saying "the most simple of functions" to mean, oh making signs is a piece of cake, I can make them better than you, I'm a professional sign maker, any untrained person can go out buy a machine, join the sign industry and take over the world, is simply ridiculous!

I purchased a machine that although might be a piece of junk to the professional sign maker it is something that I can grow into. Right now, the machine is far more capable than myself, even if it was the worst design by Roland, the machine shouldn't have even been made, it was a waste of my money etc...

There are so many negative things said about me on here, I could spend another few pages worth of writing. No the machine is not going to be a substitute income for my coating shop. The machine and the idea of making stickers is a hobby. Something that maybe stemmed from childhood where I used to collect stickers and had several sticker books packed from begging to end.

Yes, many people and especially the queen bee look at this machine as my new “little toy” and guess what. Ding ding, you very well probably nailed it on the head.

As they say biggest difference between men and boys… is the price of their toys.

I never came to this forum claiming to be an expert sign maker. I also never said that I was going to use this machine to produce any signs for profit. The way I see it, is that just by owning this machine and using it to do my own decals that is plenty to be pined up on the dirt list of the professionals.

As I remember someone posting on this thread something on the lines that I’ve succeeded at not only making the environment ugly for the general public with my amateur decals slapped on the side of my work truck going down the road but I’ve also succeeded at taking away the profit from the professionals if I would have just took the work to them instead.

So if I never get out of this rut on the forum, oh well... It gets to the point that after you realize your damned regardless who you are, then you pick yourself up and move on. Sure, I will continue to make comments about things that people post against me simply because I don’t believe in walking away from a situation regardless how ridiculous it is.

So for the people who see past everything or simply will give me the “benefit of the doubt”. Thanks!

For the others who have nothing better to do than post comments to bring others down, maybe you should step up / grow up and act as the “professional level” that you say you are.

On a side note: if I would have spent the time that it took to write up this reply and put that towards honing my craft in this trade, there is no doubt that I’d be better than all of you combine and all of your customers would be MINE!! Just felt like stirring the pot a little. LOL :Big Laugh

Talk to you guys / gals later.

Flame

08-30-2006, 02:06 AM

Holy mother of mercy... KPC you had better be a fast typer cuz that's one of THE largest posts I've ever seen! WOW...

Hey, I'm willing to help out a newbie. If you ever want advice just drop me a PM and I'll give you my e-mail or phone number. I know what it feels like to be totally new at this, and if it wasn't for friendly sign guys taking me by the hand, I'd never be where I'm at today.

Peace out girlscouts.:Big Laugh

iSign

08-30-2006, 03:31 AM

As I remember someone posting on this thread something on the lines that I’ve succeeded at not only making the environment ugly for the general public with my amateur decals slapped on the side of my work truck going down the road but I’ve also succeeded at taking away the profit from the professionals if I would have just took the work to them instead.

I've followed this thread, & I believe your reference sounds closest to quoting me, so I'll reply as though you were.

But first, what I actually said was:

If you expect an hour of time from a professional would save you 2 weeks of fuking up... why don't you offer $100 for the training instead of acting like we owe it to you to give you an hour... or risk being insulted by you.

It's not that anyone's business is so fragile that you making crap stickers at any price (or no price) would ever hurt us... it's just that crap stickers shouldn't exist, they are pollution... just like you admittedly expect your own first attempt at your own truck signs to be.

Pride in painting your own living room (or wiring it) is one thing... but taking some misplaced pride in sticking crappy ineffective attempts at advertising on your company trucks, is not only misplaced pride, it is POOR BUSINESS!! Stick to the living room. Crappy signs are pollution & that hurts everyone!

I don't know, maybe you were actually referring to some other comment, but since I also consider ugly stickers to be an environmental parasite... I'll stand up & say so.

If you have a passion for your craft, seeing it done wrong, or done poorly would irritate you. Poorly coated industrial surfaces could tarnish the visual landscape for you if it assaults your sense of pride in doing your best in your chosen craft. Authors cringe at bad writing, artists cringe at bad art. If you want to do bad art, please do it in the living room & not where we have to see it.

It was never about the lost profits for us... (except maybe the free stickers for your friends & family... but only because when you mentioned that as an afterthought, it seemed contradictory to your earlier intentions) ...It's much more about the lost profits to you in settling for an inferior business identity.

Of course we all started somewhere & none of us started at the top of our game... but I think the majority of the seasoned professionals started by working for someone else & as a result, nobody was subjected to the results of sign projects completed without some form of professional training or supervision. I realize that you are looking for training, but not on design as I understand it.. & you yourself implied that you will do up your truck with what we would consider substandard signage.

There is nothing wrong with a hobby, or a prideful a DIY'er... but to sabatoge your own business... circumventing everything we've strived for decades to be able to offer others in your situation... it's not just bad business to do that to yourself, it's bad form to suggest it here.

Yes, the time spent on your reply (90% of which focused on your negative perspective regarding what you think is wrong with many of us) could have been better spent on any number of pro-active a