Looking for...a better Substrate cutter

[GraphixCALC]

I'm wanting to get something more efficient than a Skilsaw or Tablesaw, so I'm considering either a Panel Saw (like a Saw Trax) or a cutter like a Fletcher FSC. However, I'm not liking the cost of about $2500 for either one set up to my liking. Is there a more inexpensive alternative? I want something that doesn't make a mess (like the FSC), or cleans up after itself (like a panel saw with a vacuum attach). I don't need it to be capable of high volume, just an average amount, but does a good job and is accurate. Thanks much!

[Checkers]

A tool is only as good as the user :)
You may want to google "rail saw"
Here's one another shop I know recommended, although he's in Sweden...
http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=3&prodid=561174

Checkers

[GraphixCALC]

Oops, forget to even say what all I wanted it for. Primarily looking to cut Dibond, Alumalite, Coroplast, Gatorboard, etc. I guess MDO if it can (like a panel saw), but I don't use much MDO at all as I try and use Dibond or Alumalite when possible.

[Replicator]

Rail Saw looks OK . . . I sold my Panel Saw a couple months ago, but am now

considering a simple Rail Saw !

[Checkers]

Hey Chris (and Rep),
The link I posted is, more or less, a guide system that "locks" the saw into a channel to keep it from wandering. However, a circular saw and just about any straight edge would work. Just clamp the straight edge to the substrate and cut away.
The trick to a good, clean, straight cut is using the right blade for the substrate you're cutting. While a sharp, general purpose, carbide tipped blade wil cut through just about anything, most manufacturers will provide specifications on the best type of blade to efficiently cut their substrate.
Here's a link for some more reading...
http://www.generalsaw.com/resource/rightblade.html

Checkers

[Billct2]

I'd look for a used Panel Saw

[iSign]

I love my safety speedcut panel saw. I have the best dust collection system they offer... but don't fool yourself into believing it "cleans up after itself" ...it makes less mess... but you will still want it in an area that can get dusty. Awesome tool... the money spent is long forgotten... but the fact that I waited 7 years to get is not.

[SAS]

I got a good deal a few months ago on a panel saw made by Safety Speed Cut Mfg. a local sign guy was getting out of the biz. (retiring) Give him $700 for the saw, and he gave me a two sided vinyl tree full of vinyl and around $1000 worth of alum. blanks.
It has saved me a little bit since I got it I was paying $3.00 a cut from my blank supplier.

[threeputt]

I've had the panel saw by Safety Speed Cut for nearly 20 years. But I'm now interested in the FSC thing. (no video of it available on the web) Does anyone out there have one? Can you describe it's use and evaluate/compare to a panel saw?

[GraphixCALC]

I just found this, maybe a partial solution for substantially less.

http://www.eurekazone.org/index.html

[salvauser]

I am subscribed to a magazine called Shopnotes. This is magazine dedicated to DIY woodworking jigs. About 2 or 3 issues ago, they featured a DIY panel saw with plans included. It did not look to hard to build. However, I've built a model from them featured in issue 5 of the magazine which I still use (check the uploaded photos). I've cut acrylic, plywood, MDF, and foamboard. But it would not manage coroplast or very thin materials.

This is a link Shopnotes' newer model:

http://www.shopnotes.com/issues/088/sources/sliding-carriage-panel-saw/

This is a video of it:

http://www.shopnotes.com/player.php?id=195

I've included pictures of what I built. But do not purchase the kit suggested by the web site. It took me forever to get this jig squared.

I hope this is useful. Good luck.

[Gene@mpls]

maybe a partial solution for substantially less.


Chris- if you are serious about this, bite the bullet and get a panel saw. I
agree with isign- you will not regret it. I have a Safety Speed Cut as well-
it will cut 6' tall- also a nice feature. My vacuum system catches the fine
particles that would float around (to your printer) and the heavier bits drop
to the floor. Safe, fast, and the first straight cuts I have ever made.:tongue:

[Speeddm]

DONT BUY A SAW TRAX please!!! . Buy the safty saw brand they are very close but the saw trax is inferior by far. 2 Years ago I was very close to becoming a distiributer for them and I bought 2 52" sign specials. The only way I have been able to make the thing work is to modify it using components from safty saws machine. Plus Safty saw used to build all Saw trax units they are rip offs. The origionals are way better built. I brock off talks with them because they refused to adress the issues that we had with the cutter setup.

[GraphixCALC]

No kiddin huh?! The SawTrax looks to be a very good unit, but I'm no expert on them by any stretch. Looks like they've made some significant changes recently, but you think it's still a poorly executed product? I am still interested in the Fletcher FSC, and these are all about the same $$$. I just today locally found a used Milwaukee panel saw for $800, but don't know much about the real-world specs of those other than what I read about it. Looks like all it has extra is the extensions (no dust collection as far as I know).

[Speeddm]

The saw trax is a very good interpretation aof a well built machine. The Milwakiee is a painted Safety Saw. Ive looked at many an I totally regret getting the saw trax. I thing the Safty saw was 500 more than the STx and I would gladly pay twice that now. I looked at the Fletcher and it will only cut soft board. Not Econolite sign ply or crezone (I hate wood) It is very comparable to the Excalaber. I have used that one it works really well but it is limited. No ling rips. The longest I have done on my STx is 34' of tufak. When you get a saw buy a REALLY good blade. I have a hand built German blade it cuts so clean we dont have to sand dibond.

[maddmd]

How about a KeenCut Excalibur 5000 ?

[GraphixCALC]

I think those are pretty much the same as the Fletcher FSC, but might actually be a little more expensive.

[GraphixCALC]

So it sounds like the Milwaukee would be a decent choice for a panel saw? Can you get a blade attachment like for the SawTrax and Safety Speed saws? The FSC will cut dibond and alumalite, but not MDO (which I don't use much of anyway).

[iSign]

So it sounds like the Milwaukee would be a decent choice for a panel saw? Can you get a blade attachment like for the SawTrax and Safety Speed saws? The FSC will cut dibond and alumalite, but not MDO (which I don't use much of anyway).
yes

[Speeddm]

I would look at the c4 with the blade adaptor. I ended up retrofitting the blade plate to my Saw TX. Bu the milwak looks like the same unit. I do know from talking to saftey saw they make Milwakies saw.

[GregT]

I have a Keencut in the shop and love cutting with it. We cut gatorfoam, coroplast, thin aluminum, komatex. etc.

[Rat_Fink]

I love my safety speedcut panel saw. I have the best dust collection system they offer... but don't fool yourself into believing it "cleans up after itself" ...it makes less mess... but you will still want it in an area that can get dusty. Awesome tool... the money spent is long forgotten... but the fact that I waited 7 years to get is not.

I totally agree. I purchased this Milwaukee panel saw: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/productIndex.shtml?originalValue=panel+saw&operator=prodIndexRefinementSearch&L1=Panel+Saws

I have had it for approx 8 years & it is used all the time from coroplast to alumalite.

Give me a call or PM me if you would like more details on it.

I knew the dust collection would not work 100% so I did not add it - I just keep it in the warehouse as to not throw dust in the production areas. I sweep up the dust that drops once or twice a week with a shop vac.

I also opted for the extensions so it is really easy to cut a 4x8 or 4x10 with no help. Without the extensions - some cuts could get tricky as the ends of the panel were not properly supported.

This tool is at good price at a little over $1200, but if you can get a used one for much cheaper - it would be a steal.

BTW - I sniped an ebay auction & got mine for $305 - One of the best deals I ever stumbled upon!

Take care!
R.F.

[Gene@mpls]

The Milwaukee does look like a Safety Speed Cut alright. On that narrow a
saw you would need the extension kit- and I would recommend the mid- fence. I never use my knife adapter and would sell it if someone wants it-
it is *really* heavy tho. Gene

[GraphixCALC]

As it is right now, I need something that will NOT make a huge mess, as that is what I'm dealing with right now when doing it "by hand" with a circular saw and straight-edge. But I still want something for the "soft stuff" like coro, gator and the like.

[Stan B]

is there any Keencut or Excalibur like system that will cut plastics with a razor blade 96" or over?

[Sign-Man Signs]

I just found this, maybe a partial solution for substantially less.

http://www.eurekazone.org/index.html


Isold my trax and bought this. It is perfect. We cut everything with it and what a stright line you get. Ebay @ $160.00 dollars. Think you can buy direct.

[Ruddbow]

What did you end up with Chris? I like the look of the smart square.

[Replicator]

The systems from EurekaZone look like a door threshold and a chunk of plastic

with a notch cut out for your circular saw blade and a couple of C clamps . . .

Looks like it would be pretty easy to make your own for about $40 - $50 Bucks !

[GraphixCALC]

I found a sorta local Saftey Speedcut saw, the H4 model. However, it does not have the Knife Kit, which is partly what I'm after. I've contacted the mfg to see if it can be added, but apparently it cannot, at least affordably (about $1500 for the parts). I guess the saw is made different to accept the knife kit. So, my question is for those with one of these, how often do you use the Knife Kit (if you have it)? I personally think that I would use it a lot for coroplast, foamcore and the like, so this is a bummer to find out. Anyway, would appreciate any feedback.

[iSign]

I have the knifekit.
I never use it.
If it fit your saw, I'd probably sell it.

*edit*
Actually, knowing me... I love to have every tool imaginable... just in case... so I probably won't sell it, so I shouldn't have said that... but the point was that, it doesn't seem that valuable to me. I guess I tried it when I first got it, & I forget the results, but they must not have been great, or I also don't have that much demand for it.

[GraphixCALC]

No kidding huh? How come? What are you using to cut the softer subtrates then? Just a straightedge and knife? I was kinda wanting a better way and this looked to be it with the knife kit. Pray tell...

[iSign]

not much more to tell... I don't have much demand as I said, so I usually just use a straight edge. I cut gatorboard with the blade on the panel saw... I buy coro in precut sizes if I need a lot of them. I even have an expensive "Practic" trimmer by keencut & it's been waiting for me to make room in my shop to set it up for 15 months.

[Rich]

I also have been given some serious thought about purchasing a panel saw. I would need a machine that can be switched from a vertical cut to a horizontal cut without too much effort. As for saw blades - I would want a machine that takes a common size, so I don't have to purchase from the manufacturer. Also a dust collector would be an important feature.

I haven't done any research yet but these two machines have been brought to my attention:

Saw Trax and Safety Speed Cut

What choice do you recommened for my needs?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[GraphixCALC]

Rich, did you read this entire thread? Several posts ago, "Speeddm" says not to get the SawTrax as they are a cheaper knockoff (though I have no personal experience to back that up).

[Rich]

Sorry, don't know how I missed that!
and I'm not even:beer

Thanks

[GraphixCALC]

Anyone hear of this company?

http://sawsystems.net/signpackages.html

[Bogie]

Hint.... Build shed/lean-to over a pad in the back of your shop, and house your dust collector (and garden stuff, whatever...) in it. Dust goes out, doesn't have the chance to filter back in.

[GraphixCALC]

Just got off the phone with the owner of Saw Systems...turns out he used to work for Saw Trax and then of course has intimate knowledge of their panel saws. They went their separate ways and he then started his own. Sounds like he's tried to improve on what the competition offers, they just don't have a big name yet. Plus, their prices are about 25% less than the others.

[vvv123]

I'm wanting to get something more efficient than a Skilsaw or Tablesaw, so I'm considering either a Panel Saw (like a Saw Trax) or a cutter like a Fletcher FSC. However, I'm not liking the cost of about $2500 for either one set up to my liking. Is there a more inexpensive alternative? I want something that doesn't make a mess (like the FSC), or cleans up after itself (like a panel saw with a vacuum attach). I don't need it to be capable of high volume, just an average amount, but does a good job and is accurate. Thanks much!


try this cheap to make. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH5dW-QcgeI

[Mainframe]

http://www.eurekazone.org/index.html


I bought this about 8 years ago & it is awesome! I cut foamboard, .040, .063 .080 mdo. lusterboard, foamboard, scooter board, & sign foam & lexan. This thing sets up in seconds, the saw cuts perfectly straight & slides down a rail, 1000 times better than a guide fence. The trick is to buy 3 sections when you order, the 4 foot sections stack together if needed so you can cut a 12 foot panel if you want. But if you have 3 sections you can keep 2 together for 8 foot cuts & use the extra section for your smaller cuts, after you get one of these you no longer have ANY trouble getting perfectly square substrates of any size, I use it to cut anything over a foot, my radial arm saw cuts one foot so I just use it for those cuts, I couldn't run my shop without this tool!

[signmeup]

try this cheap to make. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH5dW-QcgeI
I just made 2 of these out of scrap dibond......a 4 footer and an 8 footer. I glued the dibond with one part poly-urethane glue.

These will be great for cutting HDU and MDO. I have to find a helper everytime I want to cut 4 x 8's on the table saw. I just don't have the space for a panel saw.

[signdog]

We just installed a Fletcher FSC. It's great for Dibond and Coroplast. We haven't used it for gatorfoam yet. We have a SSC panel saw and a table saw. The problem with saws is the rough edges and all the chips. With the FSC you get perfect edges and no saw chips. Safer to use to.

[BobM]

I saw the FSC at a trade show yesterday. Does a beautiful job on everything up to 1/2 PVC. $3,000 is tough to take, but it's a quality tool that you'll use for years and years.