Entry into Sign Business

[Kudzu613]

Hello folks - I am investigating the sign shoppe business and looking for opinions.

I am not trained in signage, but find the tradition sign making viynl, sandblasting, screen, etc. to be of much interest. Also the frontier of digital sign making adds to the excitement. I understand the need for superior graphic folks (to hire on) and signmaker (to hire on). My value is in marketing and sales to dirve the business.

I have talked with a couple of business opportunity companies (not franchises)-one called SignWorld and another called Sign Biz - anyone have any thoughts if this is a route to go to enter the business? Ups, downs???

:thankyou:

[Rick]

I saw your posting in letterhead....one complaint most people have is trying to find good help. If they are already good in design and signmaking, why would they want to work for you, unless you pay them well and they have a little design freedom?
I think you need to understand the sign business and do not rely on employees to take care of the rest. In the end, you may put your nose in it (and why not, your the boss), without a clue on what signmaking is about and mess it up, or your employees may not repect an employer if they know more than the boss, or you may think it's easy and not trust your employees, thus alienating them.....I have seen this happen a lot.
Get a job at a sign shop, or start out small, take seminars and classes, read Signcraft Magazine and the others and start slowly......that way you know how it's done, what type of person to hire, and what type of signs you want to do.

[sign chick]

Great advice, Rick. Some that I think should be given more often. Too many people think they can buy a cheap plotter and software and voila! they're in the sign biz. Not so. Well, you can be... for a little while. You can't learn everything from magazines and message boards. You have to get in there, get your hands dirty and pay some dues.

It's like saying, "I like to cook; I think i'll open a restaurant!" Then going to a message board for restaurant owners and asking them to tell you how to do it. There's so much more to it than that.

I really don't mean any offense, kudzo613. Just saying that there's more to it than you think. Don't want ya to waste your money. Try working in a sign shop first; you'll be glad you did! :peace!:

[Fred Weiss]

I agree that you should work in a sign shop before making the commitment. Or, at most, start it as a side business with minimum financial commitments until the business proves itself and you learn enough about what's needed to make an informed decision. While your skills are important, they are the easiest to replace and would serve you well in any other endeavor as well.

If you don't have a background in either art or a construction trade or at least a lot of time working with your hands and/or computers, you're going to be dependent on the help you can get .... which is not a good thing.

A lot of people are attracted to signmaking because of the margins and some for the gratification of creating good work. But it shouldn't be entered into because you think it's a good business opportunity. It should be entered into because it's a natural next step in your life.

[jimdes]

All good advice! I Worked for an idiot that couldn't market snow cones in Hades. He bought into a "Global" franchise and beleived all he had to do was follow their guidelines, hire a few good folks and Shazam . . . he's a milionaire. Far from it.

Eight years later, all three employees own their own sign related businesses . . . and the owner? He's hiding from the IRS as far as we can tell.

I personally got a HUGE HELPING HAND from one of my current customers to get started, a loan that would have bought a nice used car. He needed signs, I knew how but didn't have the cash. (granted they were a little crude in the beginning, but heck, he was happy)

I learned a lot of the basics at the franchise store, took a few art classes to boost my talents, learned Corel Draw, bought a little accounting software package, a 24" plotter, a bunch of PVC sheet and about a mile of 15" vinyl.

The business is a thriving basement business right now and I'm looking forward to a big move in June to a permanent retail/production facility. I'm glad I took the slow route. It hasn't been easy, but with a little perserverance, some criticism and a wife that will put up with a lot of crap, I've managed to get to a point where I'm happy . . . isn't that what we're aiming for after all? :smile:

Best wishes and kudos to you for checking things out before jumping in with both feet into a shallow pool. :thumb:

[juan45215]

I started about a year and a half ago. Rented a 500 sq ft second floor office to meet customers and display samples - rent was $175/MO did the work at my home. A year later I moved into a commercial location and business really took off. I looked at franchises and business opportunities, but they required big bucks up front for a fancy store fixtures an dstate of the art equipment and wanted me to open in the high rent district (about $2200 per month) the money scared me away. There are times that I wish I had gone with the Sign Biz since they do not charge monthly royalties. I have wasted alot of time and money not knowing what I was doing. Also it would be nice to have someone in town that can get advice from. But the franchise's royalties make no sense to me. I'm sure in 3-5 years you can make it on your own, but you have to pay them 7-9% for 20 years.

[zipper]

I would like to share my experience since my wife and I opened a sign business thirteen years ago with no prior sign making experience. It was a complete change in career for us and we were very afraid because this area was known to be tough on any sign business. After 13 years, we are the oldest sign company in this area with the original owners. We built a new 8500 square foot facility last year for our business. Please don't take everything I say as the only way to succeed, but just another example of how someone has to put a business plan before they jump into the sign business.

1. We signed up with a sign franchise. They were helpful in setting up a startup inventory of sign making materials, selecting the software, computers and other sign making equipment. They also helped with the interior decorations and giving us a two week training to show us how to do the basic sign designs on the computer. After the first year, we quit listening to their ideas that didn't work in the real world. The franchise will take their royalty right off the gross revenue. This means you could be starving to death and they will still make money off your business.

2. We looked at all the sign shops in this area to see what their goals were. Because this area encouraged it, all other sign shops were focused to be competitive in price. We decided to be different and our focus was to develop our reputation on quality and service. This was a tough decision because our skills were limited and every Tom, Dick & Harry sign shops were also pitching quality, service and lower price than us. It took about two years before we could quit dipping into our savings to survive and word started getting out that we were giving more quality and service even though our signs were more expensive. After that our cliental became more defined and we quit getting those tire kickers.

3. Because we did not have the necessary sign background, we advertised for someone with prior experience. We were very lucky that the first girl who answered the ad used to operate the computer for an established sign company in another state. Her husband just got transferred to this area and she wanted to work. She worked for us for three years and she taught us how to design signs on the computer and how a sign shop should operate. After all these years we still stay in touch by phone and letters.

4. Just like the general contractors that build beautiful houses with their outstanding sub-contractors, we carefully evaluated the vendors that we wanted to use. If one of our important client comes up with a rush project, I know I can count on my vendors to keep their word on shipping the product or supplies to us on time. One of our greatest asset we have is the list of vendors that continues to make us look good in the eyes of our important clients. Our competitors can't compete with us in getting things done on super critical projects. I know that I can sometimes get supplies cheaper by shopping around, but I show my loyalties by sticking with my regular vendors. This is a very important issue and I would like to discuss this subject in more detail in another posting.

5. We slowly diversified so we rarely turn away jobs now. We didn't make the same mistake like some other sign shops that claimed they could do just about any kind of signs. When customers tried them out and they did a lousy job, they usually didn't get a second chance. We did our research and we practiced the new technique until we felt confident we could do it well. Then we advertised to let people know that we made that particular type of sign.

6. If you decide to build your reputation on quality and service, keep in mind that it is a 24/7 job. It is lot more work to make quality signs and it makes it harder to find good workers for your business.

[Rick]

Zip, this should be posted on every sign board...it sounds like you did everthing to make your business really work, be productive and quality minded, plus you seem to appreciate your employees and vendors.....In my experience it is a rarity, but both employee and employer can work together, if the atmosphere is there to grow and share. I would have stayed at any of my jobs if that were the case.

I am an apprenticed sign person so I started from the bottom, and worked my way through the business from hand painted to architectural.
Self Taught newbies and experienced sign peolple like myself can learn a lot from your post...

Thanks

[Kudzu613]

Zipper - thanks for taking the time to post your experience in starting in the sign business. Very well done.

I make an assumption your previous career was in business, likely management of some sorts. I find the varied opinions on the board to be interesting and believe conflicting management style (US [owners] vs. THEM [employees]) is the exception for successful businesses - literally any business. I would like to think the experiences by some posting here are the exception.

Couple more questions of your post -
a. Still with franchise?
The idea of going into the sign business just because it feels right, without support and help would be foolish on my behalf. I have heard from other sign franchisee's that see less and less value in time. The "business opportunity" of up front fee's for training, network, pre-planned education, etc. seems like the only way to enter.

b. Hiring the right skill set - as you noted lady luck came your way with a terrific first hire. After talking with many sign folks - it sounds like this critical skill set is -

[Kudzu613]

sorry about that - hit the wrong key............

the skill set in an experienced sign person with computer based skills is (seeking agreement or refinment to the following):
- graphic designer, but more signmaker than artist. I have talked with people that thought they were hiring a signmaker, and the person hired thought they were hired as an artist - ouch. Conflict incurred, as you might imagine.

This skill set with the right mind-set to be a team player seems like one of the most critical positions. Sure I want to learn, understand, know (in that order) how to make signs. However, I don't need to be the sign maker. Don't believe I can grow a business by trying to be everything.

c. Marketplace Value Proposition - Zipman..... you brought up a great point. I have asked numerous sign shop owners this question- "What sets you apart from the competition?" I think 100% of the time I have heard the answer - Quality and Service (in that order).
Is there another "peel of the onion" - a further nugget of detail that you might consider to separate you from the other sign shops?

Thanks again for your post. Most encouraging to hear from someone in the business like yourself!

[zipper]

In reply to Kudzu613 questions:

1. I am still a member of the franchise. The only way to leave the franchise is to wait 20 years until your contract with them expires or your shop goes out of business. One of the stores is trying to get out of franchise and they have spent about $100,000.00 so far in legal fees and they are at a stalemate with the franchise. The franchise I belong to has lost over forty percent of their stores in the last few years. We don't count on them for advice or support. We pay our royalties and they leave us alone.

2. One of the things we do that separates us from other sign companies is how we handle complaints and misunderstandings. We approach complaints as an opportunity to show how good we are while others try to sweep them under the rug and hope it goes away. If you are really trying to promote quality products you should not get very many complaints. However, no matter how hard you try, you will make mistakes (e.g. defective material, worker mistakes that were not caught, etc.). If you are to gain benefits from correcting the mistake, timing is critical. Maybe because people had bad experience elsewhere, they feel like they have to fight with us to get the mistake or problem corrected. If you spend too much time arguing with the customer before you agree to make it right, the customer will leave your store with the corrected sign and they will still be mad at you. The chances are good that they will not come back and they will tell others about their 'bad' experience with your shop. The important thing to remember is how expensive it is to find new customers through advertising. Sometimes it is a lot cheaper to fix the mistake and retain the customer. When we get a complaint we don't meet them half way. Our policy is to meet them by going 75%. This usually takes care of lot of problems that fall in the gray area and we don't have to argue with our customers. Naturally, we use our good judgement and if we feel the customer is trying to take advantage of us, I have no problem telling them to get lost. Some of the benefits you will gain by really selling quality and service, you will have higher caliber customers that will pay you on time and the complaints you will get will be honest ones.

[Fred Weiss]

Great post Zipper! Thanx for sharing your experience and insights.

I'm starting a different thread to carry this conversation forward.