Epson Stylus 7800 Pro printer

[Darklight]

First, Thanks to the assembled genius here for providing so much good information! Lurking = Learning around hear, so thank you all. I have received an Epson 7800 printer, but have very little knowledge beyond the manuals. Its 8 color, uses epson's k3 inks, and is 24". If I try to use this in some sign applications, will I be successful? Id like to print on vinyl with it, mount it to various substrates, laminate it and have some intermediate outdoor durability. I know knothing about it other than it does poster-size and banner-size photos very well. Is there a way to get some vinyl-based work out of this thing? What vinyl or what laminate would I use? I know Im rambling, but Im frustrated!! I know the answer is on this forum from the assembled intelligecia!!!! Any help would be more appreciated than you can imagine.
Thanks in advance,
Dark

[gvgraphics]

It will print on coated media such as poster boards, vinyl and banner stock. Call your vender and ask if they carry these products. Good luck

[Simon Belmont]

good printer, great workhorse. I would contact your supplier about media because there will be a fair amount of product that you won't be able to print on. On top of that your media will be more expensive. But you will get great output from the machine and will be happy with it. Just make sure you buff up your blacks because the ultrachrome ink set is notorious for not producing a rich black.

[Blazingsun]

Where using AveryIPM2000 vinyl and Avery DOL1000 Laminate, With our r1800 epson for short run Decals, Which uses the same Inks as the 7800..

according to avery it has a 4 year outdoor life when laminated 6 month un laminated.

S&F sign supply carries and extensive Line of Water based materials.

www.sfsupplies.com (http://www.sfsupplies.com)

[Urban Image]

I wouldn't trust it to last for four years. Yes, the material may last for 4 years but the image won't. Also, most people who print with aqueous printers (Epson, Encad, Kodak, Canon, HP) use polypropylene instead of vinyl. It is far less expensive and will still get you the 6 months to 1 year. It generally runs for about 16 cents per square foot. Remember that you don't really need to be using scrim banner that is made to last for three years and costs 79 cents per square foot when the image is only going to last for 6 months to a year. Also, one company in Houston only does printing and uses an Epson. He has done well for himself focusing on grocery stores, the shopping mall, and other places where indoor point-of-purchase signs are needed. If you use a good photo/poster media and the outdoor inks your prints may just outlive you indoors. Ask your vendor about Kodak photo medias and Dr. Graphix. Your vendor probably private labels Dr. Graphix but it is good stuff.

[Blazingsun]

I wouldn't trust it to last for four years. Yes, the material may last for 4 years but the image won't.

I have images that have been out doors for 2 years now In Direct Sun Light and still look as good as the day I printed them.

[Urban Image]

That's impressive. I forgot to mention that it does, of course, depend on where you are. I had a customer in Africa once ask me how long the prints would last for him. I obviously didn't give him the same answer that I gave the customer in Connecticut. Now, that said, I would not give the customer in New York the same answer as the customer in Texas, either.

[Checkers]

From my experience with auqeous ink jet printers, you can expect the prints to last a couple of days to a couple of years, but it would depend on the ink, environmental and UV exposure the print would get.
I've used pigmented inks and UV laminate on prints that showed significant fading in 2 weeks. These prints were outdoors in the Las Vegas sun.
But, Using the same ink, laminate and banner media, a north facing banner, under an awning here in Harrisburg, still looks good after 2+ years.
Another thing that affects durability is whether the print is mounted vertically or at an angle.

Checkers

[Blazingsun]

That's impressive. I forgot to mention that it does, of course, depend on where you are. I had a customer in Africa once ask me how long the prints would last for him. I obviously didn't give him the same answer that I gave the customer in Connecticut. Now, that said, I would not give the customer in New York the same answer as the customer in Texas, either.

I was Only informing what I use.. and My experience's with that product...

[Urban Image]

Another thing that affects durability is whether the print is mounted vertically or at an angle.

That's interesting; I had never considered that. Does having it at an angle increase the fading?

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

Does having it at an angle increase the fading?

If you stand, the sun moves around you. If you lay down, the sun is always on you. This rule applies not only to printed vinyl, but all vinyls.

[Darklight]

Awesome Info, you guys rule, as always. Now what would your recommendations be about a cutting set up if decals are produced the way its suggested above? Is there a contour cutter that will work for this? Thanks for all the help!

[Jackpine]

Awesome Info, you guys rule, as always. Now what would your recommendations be about a cutting set up if decals are produced the way its suggested above? Is there a contour cutter that will work for this? Thanks for all the help!
The Graphtec CE5000 is one, Roland GX24 is another. I use the Graphtec CE3000Mk2 with my printer. The cut line will be dependent on the requirements in your RIP. Good luck.

[Darklight]

I saw alot of those over the weekend, assumed popularity was an indicator of what to buy. Started with a endura-cut, but its gotta go bye bye now! Thanks for all the knowledge.

[Jackpine]

I saw alot of those over the weekend, assumed popularity was an indicator of what to buy. Started with a endura-cut, but its gotta go bye bye now! Thanks for all the knowledge.
The Graphtec is my choice!

[ColesCreations]

We use an Epson 10600, un-laminated vinyl is not scratch resistant. I am, however, very impressed that a sticker I put on a car a year ago still looks good, unlaminated, and the stuff we have put outside with laminate seems to last very good. You cannot compare the Ultrachrome ink to the stuff in desktop printers, it is way better, waterproof, and does not fade like the cheapy printers' ink does.
As for contour cutting, we purchased an old used Summa with OPOS, it will cut laminated decals within 0.1 mm. Just fantastic. It takes a little trial and error to learn how to set up the OPOS-marks.

[Darklight]

Forgive my slowness today, are you saying that you print, dont laminate, and get pretty good outdoor results? Or is that in select situations and generally laminated is the way to go?

[Jackpine]

Forgive my slowness today, are you saying that you print, dont laminate, and get pretty good outdoor results? Or is that in select situations and generally laminated is the way to go?
They are in Norway. I would think the UV effect is a little bit less than Texas. I don't put any prints on anything that moves (autos) without laminate. Cheap short term stuff like small decals or race cars you can use 3mil clear vinyl like ShineRite or 651 or Avery A 4 or 6. That would be for durability. Good stuff with any type of printer, laminate. There are no shortcuts for good work. Hope this helps.

[Darklight]

Thanks for the advice! Hopefully this will get things going in the right direction!

[Urban Image]

I'm in Houston and I've never had anything unlaminated last for more than a few weeks.

[Blazingsun]

We use the Roland GX-24...

[Darklight]

Can anyone suggest the preffered method of lamination to make 7800-printed vinyl last as long as possible?

[Pro Image]

ONE WORD>>>>>>>>>>>

The BIG SQUEEGEE..............

Check out Dales link at the bottom of the page to order....................

[gvgraphics]

ONE WORD>>>>>>>>>>>

The BIG SQUEEGEE..............

Check out Dales link at the bottom of the page to order....................


It's a MUST have once you try it!

[Darklight]

Saw it at Ft. Worth show.....looked like a great idea, thx. Finally, suggestions for the specific laminate to apply with it?

[Pro Image]

I use Lamex from Feller with good results.........I also use Oracal 210 ..........
I know its kind overkill but you never know................lol

[mediaman]

darklight,

The Roland GX-24 comes with CutStudio, which allows you to print, using Illustrator or Corel, to the Epson (with crop marks) and then cut the graphic on the GX-24. Epson's Ultrachrome inks are waterproof and UV resistant. They will hold up very well outside. I'd laminate anything that goes on a vehicle. Banners will be more scratch resistant if you hit them with a coat of ClearStar's ClearJet spray. If you need additional info email me - randy at ijsupplies dot com

[ColesCreations]

Actually I printed and thermally laminated, put the sticker on the back of a car, laminate did not stick to the coated vinyl, got water in between, tore off the laminate, 6 months later it still looks fine...

Anyway, the Ultrachrome ink is longer lasting than I anticipated, but I do not sell it for outdoor use. For outdoor use, we print with the Summa DC1, with good results. Don't laminate most things.

[css custom graphics]

So what is the overall consensus on this printer. I have been talking too Beacon Graphics about purchasing a printer, and this one caught my eye. I know it isn't perfect for signage, but was wondering if it would be servicable for small decals, and some signage. My wife is a photographer and I was really interested in this printer because we could both use this machine. What do you all think. I believe that it only has one type of media available and it is epson.

[Jackpine]

Can anyone suggest the preffered method of lamination to make 7800-printed vinyl last as long as possible?
Use a film laminate with UV rating such as Oracle 210, 290 or other simalar products.

[Bogie]

I used an Epson 10600 for the past few years with some VERY particular researchers... The Epson materials are VERY hard to beat. 99.9% of the stuff was inside use, and I don't think I ever noticed any gnarstiness...

[mediaman]

ColesCreations,

I would NOT use hot lam on vinyl, especially coated vinyl. Pressure sensitive works best. For longer-term outdoor use, we recommend printing on the Epson with two cut lines, about a ½" apart. After printing, cut both lines on the GX-24 (or cutter with an Optical Eye), laminate, put it back in the cutter and cut only the outside line. Now the graphic will have a ½" overlap of laminate that will protect the edge from absorbing water into the coating. This is important on vehicles as water will easily be forced into an unprotected edge and mold will grow. Using the overlap method allows for graphics that can last up to 3 years, though I wouldn't guarantee that to the customer. Hope this helps.

[Darklight]

I really appreciate all the input here guys.
I have a customer asking if I can make helmet decals for his football team. Anybody have any thoughts about whether or not this printer could print these type of items? As you all know, They have to take alot of abuse...

[Jackpine]

Not sure about the printer but I would use Convex and Convex laminate.

[mediaman]

As far as I know, there is no cast vinyl compatible with the Epson. I think compound curves are beyond the capability of the Epson since all the material for water-based Ultrachrome inks is coated and calendered. You may be better off sub-ing out the helmet graphics to someone with a solvent printer and have it printed on cast vinyl or Convex, as Jackpine suggested. No matter what material you use it must be laminated or at least clear-coated.

[css custom graphics]

They only media available for this printer is calendared. I spoke with a sales rep. from Beacon Graphics and he says that other companies will begin making compatible vinyl in the near future.

[Darklight]

Im such a noob....I thought this printer might save some time! It does great quality for indoors, I just need to get over the idea that it should be equally good for outdoor applications. Im really learning alot from everyone here, so thanks for the continuing replies!

[Jackpine]

I'm sure there are many outdoor applications that your printer can do. Work with what you have.

[css custom graphics]

Yes I believe it will do some outdoor applications. I am really considering buying one. The quality of the prints and the price too buy a new one are very tempting. I am going to check one out a beacon graphics in the near future. I would like to do small run decals, signs,banners, and vehicle graphics. The vehicle graphics are what make me nervous. I would encapsulate all graphics. I was also wondering about the media conforming to vehcile applications. I would most likely be doing truck doors,us dot numbers, etc. Doing trucks with rivets using this media is what really scares me. Does anyone have any experience with this?

[Urban Image]

So what is the overall consensus on this printer. I have been talking too Beacon Graphics about purchasing a printer, and this one caught my eye. I know it isn't perfect for signage, but was wondering if it would be servicable for small decals, and some signage. My wife is a photographer and I was really interested in this printer because we could both use this machine. What do you all think. I believe that it only has one type of media available and it is epson.

Take a look at Canon, too. They make some outstanding machines and are often times a bit lower priced. I, personally, like the W8400 especially if you are just starting out.

[ColesCreations]

Well...

You asked for an opinion...

The Epson water-based printers are not built for making outdoor signs.

Great for indoor use, photo quality, need special media, expensive prints.

For outdoor use, get another printer, don't sell something you're not sure will deliver what you promise.

[wes70]

Actually, check out www.mediaoneusa.com. They have a coated cast vinyl that can be used for vehicle wraps and is made for aqueous printers. They have an ad in the current issue of Sign Builder magazine.

Wes

[Pro Image]

Actually, check out www.mediaone.com (http://www.mediaone.com). They have a coated cast vinyl that can be used for vehicle wraps and is made for aqueous printers. They have an ad in the current issue of Sign Builder magazine.

Wes


Called them Friday.............

Only comes in a 54in roll 75ft long...........price 540.00 (I think don't have the price in front of me) The laminate that you have to get for the warranty is also a tad bit costly..............

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

That is actually a very good price for aqueous cast media.

[JAMEY]

So...how has it worked for you so far Darklight? Did you make any outdoor stuff?