Ebay think twice before buying LFP printers

[creative]

Hi All,

Now that I'd fix this animal I would like to tall you alittle bit about my experience...
I purchased the printer from Dave Brown/Elitedecals.com/midwest designs in Leesburg In.
I'd paid for it thur Paypal, I received the printer, setit up and, ARGHHHHH!!!
DID NOT WORK!!!!
iI'd called Dave Brown the seller and told him that the printer wasn't working, he told me not to call him anymore and hang up on me, sin then I'd been sttrugling to for two months to get paypal to enforce a refund, they are of NO help at all, i'd filled a cliam with the BBB in Indiana and still pending, I talked to a colletion agency and they told me that they CAN recover the funds and RUIN his credit.
The printer wasn't working when Dave Brawn sold the printer, I can prove it, he spoke about the printing NOT working with his ink supplier www.cabonddigital.com (http://www.cabonddigital.com) they told me about it.

so in my opinion he acted in bad faith when he put the printer for sale on ebay, furthermore, after the sale he cancelled his ebay account right away.
I hope that my bad experience help other in deciding wheater or not to buy large printer without manufacturers warranty being current.

Paypal decided the claim in my favor either, I'd try call him and he doesn't answer.
What would you do in my case, would you ruin the guys credit, send an attorney to take him to court etc... all those good things I feel he deserve for his acts.

Please post your honest respond.

Regards.
P.S. I hope hi is a member of this forum and a lot of you people know him so you know who he really is.:design:

[BobbyFosson]

Usually, auctions are items sold AS-IS and you may or may not have any recourse... Did you print a copy of the auction details? If so, check to see if it mentions AS-IS or not working or whatever...

Depending on the price, small claims court may be the cheapest way for you to get some money back without taking a big hit from a collection agency.


You could always contact a lawyer and as for a free case review. Most will do this.

If it is a couple of hundred bucks, maybe lesson learned and move on. If over $500, I would see if the lawyer would review the case with a free consult.

[iSign]

I wouldn't hesitate to make ANY effort that might right a wrong, without any concern for the credit of a thief.

I'd also correct the spelling of his name in your post, since you have 2 different names.

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

Your only option is civil litigation (other than possibly credit card chargeback - if you used credit card for PayPal). Success will hinge on your written agreement. Still, there is no guarantee that you would even collect a dime - even if you get a judgment in your favor.

BBB, debt collection, etc, etc - all a waste of time and effort.

Don't know what you paid, and what you spent on repairs, BUT this is a common issue with used solvent printers. Once they sit they start to turn to crap.

Good luck.

[Techman]

I would take the high road. That way the thoughts and stresses would go away. The high road simply means the dead printer is just that,, Dead stuff. I woul ldeae th ehard feelings behind and get back to work so this deed would not sonsume my spirit. Then I would haunt this person until the day he dies or he pays up. Its that simple. Law suit, collections every other thiing that could be done. Persueing fraud charges would be a good try as well. Wirefraud is a serious deal. Mail fraud is serious as well. Did he use the mail in any way to further this deed? Let the collection agency do their deeds too. Why? because this dude seems to be calling your bluff.

As far as the BBB is concerned. They cannot will not do anything except hold a bar report in a file. The BBB is a toothless dog.

[ChicagoGraphics]

Call your credit card co. and tell them to charge back your CC account
Paypal sucks , they never seem to be on the buyer's side

[Replicator]

Lawyer Up my Friend ! ! !

[JimJenson]

File a lawsuit. Do it now. It is cheaper than you think.

He may be able to hangup on you, ignore your demands, tell you to f-off, but theres one thing he cannot do, and that is ignore a lawsuit once it is filed.
If the court finds in your favor, then go on the attack through collections, freezing bank accounts etc. I wouldnt give a crap about his credit rating.

[Sign-Man Signs]

File a lawsuit. Do it now. It is cheaper than you think.

He may be able to hangup on you, ignore your demands, tell you to f-off, but theres one thing he cannot do, and that is ignore a lawsuit once it is filed.
If the court finds in your favor, then go on the attack through collections, freezing bank accounts etc. I wouldnt give a crap about his credit rating.

Ditto. Hire the man and burn him for time and machine.

[Autografxx]

I made a paypal claim on $4800 worth of eq. that was not as described and got a full refund of the purchase price. I did not get back the $415.00 in shipping charges and they took their time about it.

[creative]

Thank you all again, at this point of time I have decided to 1- Sign the agreement with a collection agency so they do all the horrors they say they can do to him, 2- I will seek legal representation, I'd contacted an attorney beased in Indiana (close to Dave Brown's town) and she asked me to send all information inregards to this case, she will review it and call me with a possible solution.

I gave him the opportunity to turn this right but he refused to even answer the phone.

Regards

Don't do others what..... you know what I meant.

[Urban Image]

It is absolutely vital that you put this guy under. If he screwed you like this he has probably screwed other people in the past and will probably screw other people again in the future. It is your duty as the victim to do what you can to ensure that other people are not victimized so don't even begin to feel guilty for putting the dogs on him.

[threeputt]

Sorry to learn of your problems. This guy sounds like a real jerk. But....the strength of your case, and the real nuts and bolts of it will hinge on just what was claimed in the ad. Did he in fact misrepresent it? This is big. If this guy is the scoundrel he sounds like, he may have cleverly worded the ad to sound like one thing, while actually in fact stating something else.

Secondly, why did you elect to sue him in a town near him? Doesn't make sense to me. Man, I'd sue him in my town. That way it's an additional burden on him to have to travel to show up for hearings, etc. Most likely he'll not show up, and you win by default. Collecting on a judgement is tough, though, I gotta warn you.

Thirdly, if you have assigned the debt to a collection agency, I believe you've given up your rights to try and recover the loss yourself. Once they start on the case, it's theirs. If they collect, you get 40% or whatever your deal with them was.

I wish you well.

[creative]

The following is from the Ebay auction:
"I purchased this printer new in October 2005 so that makes it almost 1 1/2 years old. I just replaced both printheads, capping station, dampers, and wiper so it would be ready to go for the new owner. These are normal maintenance items that you will do over the live of the printer. Below are the printer specs taken from Ordway Sign Supply where I purchased the printer."

It sounds like the printer is being sold in 100% working condition, I haven't sue him yet, I'm looking for advise, but you're right if I must sue him it will be in my town, as for the collection agency, I haven't turn in the signed form...
today I received an e-mail from the BBB in Indiana, the seller is willing to pay 25% of the repair, my answer was 50/50 I'll wait for his answer for a couple of days then I will proceed to sue him in court in my town, thanks for the advice.

[K. Bissett]

Did you check the guys feedback? If he's screwed over several others and they left negative feedback, you can email them and get them to go in with you to fight him. It happened to me once and we called the police dept in the seller's town. She was taken to court and we all got our money back. Didn't have to go to court, get a lawyer or pay for a small claims case.

[threeputt]

One other thing. Do you know the amount of repair it will take to get it running? If you know the dollar amount, let's say it's $750.00 and he agrees to pay you 1//4 (assuming he will in fact come through) I think at that number you gotta go with him.

Here's the math. One fourth is $187.50 right? And you already said that you'd accept a 50/50 split. So you're now quarreling over $187.50. You can't even begin to think lawyer for that. (they'll want a $1000.00 retainer to take on the job, and then the meter's running, ka-ching) They don't take these kinds of cases on a contingency basis. There's not enough dough in there to get them interested. But they will work by the hour until you run out of money.

Small claims court is now the only route open to you that makes any sense at all. Filing fees in Small Claims are about $45.00 and having him served by the sheriff (if he can even find the guy) is about $35.00 in most jurisdictions. And even if you prevail in court, all you'll have is a judges order, a judgement that says he must pay. But it's basically a non-enforcable document. Unless.....you can find out where he banks and you get the judgement in to them when he happens to have some money in the account. Otherwise it's a no-go. Since he may work for himself, he may be "judgement proof" as they say. (no wages to garnishee).

So all in all, unless the repair bill is astromical, I'd take the olive branch he's offering and get on with things. Lesson learned, so to speak.

[creative]

The repair bill is for $2000.00, + $485 of the temperature pcb we are talking 2500.00 almost

If i go to court I will ask for a full refund in cluding shipping and technicians quoting time + wathever the attorney may think of...

I believe that 50/50 of the repair cost is reasonable, I guess, what do you think.

[436HENRY]

I have always bought my equipment from local dealers in Atlanta If I had a problem I could call them on the phone or go see same. It may cost a little more but not near the stress. I did buy a laptop from gateway and had a problem and they took care of it right away. On ebay you never know who the bad guys are. I sell on ebay and give a money back guarantee. Check the feedback score but more important see what other buyers say about him. If negative or no feedbacks stay clear. Do you homework on big items ask for other names he has sold. contact them ask what the think. On big items it pays to double check. Henry G

[creative]

I had been on ebay for some time now, I've reach the power seller status, the guy had 99.9% positive over 1200 items sold and had been on ebay for few years, what more can you ask for...
It was very suspicious to me that after the sale he immediately closed his ebay account!!!

he was a very good seller as far as you can tell but why cancel your account after a big sale? this would of encourage him to sell more, insted af cancelling the account, "did he knew what was coming? what do you think.

[chopper]

I had the same thing happen to me I bought a used printer and cutter from e-bay and it came with the software to run it, the printer was delivered and the guy forgot to bring the software but he would send it to me, never recived it and then I found that the print head was also bad and then he wouldnt awnser the phone, till I called him from a diffrent number that he didnt know.
this went on for months ebay was of no use I then looked them up on the internet found thier address contacted the police in thier home town and they informed me that this guy just got out of prision for internet fraud!!!
I said whell he is back to his old tricks the cops contacted him and put a little pressure on him (they were ready to prosecute him again for fraud) so he gave me my money back then he left me a negitive feed back on ebay like I was the bad guy,so I left him a bad review also and I then recieved many emails from other he had screwed asking me how I got my money back that they were trying for years to get thier money back, but the truth is there is little recorse for such things I consulted lawyers and cops they all said that I had little chance to get my money back
and the only thing that I could really do was file in small claims court and that
would have to be done in the county in which he lived so if the guy lives far away you are hosed and he knows it, like I was told that as long as I recived part or all of the product that I bought there is nothing they could do , if you didnt recive it then there is better recorse, I hope you get your money back but the chances are you will not, you must learn and move on you need to get the printer fixed and start making money with it,
then do like techman said hound this guy it probably wont do any good but I think you will feel better, also find a fellow sign guy that may live close buy, maybe they may find it in there heart to pay this friend a visit, if he lives near me I would gladly look him up for you, and I bet you would get your money back...//chopper

[supaegnt]

affected,day before this posting,i escaped the rockect that would have sent i to pluto,i ducked it via insisting that i want to see the sucker prints that i won on ebay before $$$ exchanges,guess this,the sucker did not.

as for your remedy,never pay with bank related issued card with visa/mastercard.if it is'nt real c/c,do not use for any transaction.

[creative]

I have an idea, if anyone purchase a piece of equipment from out of state, post it here then if for sample is in the Phoenix area I can go and check it out before you pay for it, same for everyone of us on this forum.

I would be willing to do it, recently there was another printer for sale on ebay from the Phoenix area, did any of you bought it?, I can go check it out for you.

does it sound like a good thing for every body here YEI - NEI???

[asignstop]

Creative, It sounds like paypal reimbursed you and you still have possesion of the printer? If this is the case your are up, use half the money from pay pal to repair the printer, and you got the printer at half cost. Or sell the printer as - is with a proper (non working printer) listing and take both moneys and buy a mimaki.

[jagsouthern]

Tough story. I have bought and sold several large printers in the 1000's of dollars and can tell you that you ALWAYS use American Express for these purchases. They will handle your claim and return the money. I think you are throwing good money after bad at this point.

[Valentino]

I would never buy any printer off ebay, the whole phrase..."just replaced the heads" is alittle unnerving, I see it as a pharse like... gently used.

[chopper]

this is just like anything else if you do not go out and kick the tires it ends up being buyer be ware, I bought a laminator in florida I drove the 1600 miles one way to make sure that I was getting a good machine ...could you please clarify if paypal gave you your money back? the way you have it wored it is confusing to weather or not you got payment from paypal. chopper

[creative]

Absolutely NOT, I have NOT received any money from no one, Paypal nor seller, I would't be asking for advise if I'd had got any money, no games when it comes to business, it takes time and effort to build reputation, just to thru it all out of the window for pennies.

In order to receive Paypal's insurance money they wanted me to return the printer without guaranteeing that I will get any money back, then I'd would of be with $6,500 out of pocket, i would of lost 4500 is that simple according to Paypal, I have reason to believe that when the seller would of got the printer back I would never, ever heard from him again.

I's asked the seller numerous times thru Paypal, to open an escrow account and deposited the money, before he got the printer back or that he would sent his own technician to repair the printer and pay him direct, i told him that i did not want to see any money, all i wanted was the printer fixed.
but of course he refused both ideas.

[creative]

Oh! Sign Stop from Indiana, maybe you know this guy uh?

[chopper]

Iam in minnesota, but if he was in my state I would pay him a visit for ya...
I just wanted to clarify if you recived funds from pay pay or not, some one else thought you got paid but that is not how I took it.. also I was not acusing you of any wrong doing just trying to understand fully..
keep us posted on what hapens good luck//chopper

[asignstop]

I just moved to IN, sorry I dont know him, didn't mean to come off defending him either. Just trying to help. Best thing to do is go small claims, no need to pay a lawyer, and he probally won't show whic' is an automatic win in your favor. Pay a sheriff to serve him summons. File in YOUR county!

Ali