Corel for main software? / Corel Sign Tools 3

[Colin]

I'm at the point where I need to spend $3000 Cdn on a software upgrade (Inspire to Flexi) and would like to hear from those who use CorelDraw for their main program. How is "Sign-Tools 3" & "Co-Cut"? Have you used other sign software to campare it to?

Thank you!

[geb]

Hi Colin. I have used Signlab, Anagraph's Designart2000, Corel ver. 9 with sign tools3.
I started with anagraph 3.5,went to designart 2000, had a lot of problems with the software, and decided to try corel with signtools. I haven't mastered corel, but it works well with the signtools, and signtools support has always helped when there was a problem. I have also heard good things about co-cut. I prefer signlab, probably the software I have spent the most time on, but have been happy with corel, as it does some things easier than in signlab. I feel I can't go wrong with both, and Corel is ALOT cheaper, along with signtools.

George

[GXSignCo]

I use Corel 12 and CoCut Pro 12. Started with Corel 9 and have been happy with it. Have also used Flexi some, and like some of the easy text features, but also don't like the HUGE price tag that accompanies it and SignLab. Working good for me so far, but also don't do any digital printing yet and have heard good about signlab for that and the versacamm.

[Colin]

Thanks for the comments........I'd love to hear more from others too.

I failed to mention that I'm also curious about how well CorelDraw would handle large format printing. Would one simply export from there to a rip?

Colin

[OldPaint]

i been using corel since version 3!!!!! the work area on it wa 30" x 30"!....when i had that i also had PRO-CUT, bridge program that was before CO-CUT. COREL V 5.0 would not cut to plotter , corel leased the code to CO-CUT, and corel 6.0 was cutless also. corel 7 was the 1st corel to go to 150 ft x 150 ft work area. 7 was the last of the true corels, after 7 they added a bunch of stuff from XARA for 8 and above.
i cut from corel direct to plotter, and have no problems. i have used sign lab, flexi, vmpro, inspire, casmate, sign mate & sign wizard. all have there standout features....but for most cutting i use corel everyday.

[giantsfan1951]

Funny you should mention the cost of the upgrade as a part of you "descision" to think about switching.... I did the exact same thing about 4 or 5 years ago... for less than the cost of upgrading my then present software i switched to VMP Pro.... i use Corel for my major design work and VMP for the actual sign production.
for a great majority of the sign busness we get here, VMP is the only part i hvae to contend with. it's "design"abily has proven more than adequate for most all run of the mil work. the only "problem" with switching was the stuff i produced in my old program was not transporable, and had to be redone in VMP (either the export feature in the old program or the import feature in VMP was lacking and the transfer was not good.) But there were very few "repeat" order items so it was a minor inconvenience.

[jeffk]

Cocut & Co-cut !!!

[rossi graphics]

i use corel 9 and signtools3 it does everthing i need it to do i do have signlab 6,but use corel and signtools 3 everyday,why spend 1000's for programs that take long way around,use what you know,i am going to switch to corel draw 12,we will see whats happens? my next venture will be cocut pro ,corel has

been time tested ,and has a lot to offer for 1/2 price of other guys,

[Techman]

Cocut pro and Corel. better than the best.

I had signtools but let it loose after getting cocut.

There is nothing I cannot do in corel and cocut that could be done in any other program..

I liked it so much that i got the update to 12 after i got corel 12. Cocut has a user BBS for help with soem problems. There are hardly any problem posts there. All are addressed with guidance on what to do.

I never need tech support with cocut pro either.

Sign tools is a good program for a hobbiest..

[Niun]

I have used Flexi, SignLab, Vinyl master and Omega and I can honestly say I enjoy Corel over all of them. The SignLab es2 shortcut works great with it as well. Havent had any problems in the last 6 years using this combo.

Dana

[Niun]

Almost forgot the price difference. 4k for the popular sign software. Or buy Corel Draw 8 for 10 bucks and es2 for 180 and your ready to roll. If you want to splurge you can get the latest version of Corel 11 or 12 for 300 bucks or less sometimes.

[OldPaint]

i have been using corel since version 3!!!! 7 was the best rock solid. i now use 10. i dont have any BRIDGE program, co-cut, sign tools, pro-cut/eurocut. i do 95% of all my cutting in corel and have files from corel 3...which can be broght into 10, 11, 12.

[heyfishguy]

i have been using corel since version 3!!!! 7 was the best rock solid. i now use 10. i dont have any BRIDGE program, co-cut, sign tools, pro-cut/eurocut. i do 95% of all my cutting in corel and have files from corel 3...which can be broght into 10, 11, 12.

OP how do you set up corel 10 to directly cut with no bridge program?

[OldPaint]

you connect your plotter to the printer port 1st, if yours is comm only you cant do it. i use roland plotters and they have both comm/printer connection. roland has a driver you load just like a printer driver, and in corel you send to print and it will cut. in corel you need to make the page the size of you vinyl. you need to make the line to hairline or .00004 or 5 depending on the version of corel....set page to you plotter and your off an cuttin....oh only versions of corel that wont do this is ver 5 and 6...7 thru 12 have a 150 feetx 150 feet work space..... :Coffee:

[feizaguirre]

What about Corel and the graphtec cutters?, do graphtec cutters have drivers like roland cutters?
thanks

[jeffk]

Yes, I have a 24" Graftec and use Corel and Cocut. Works great!!

[feizaguirre]

So I need then CoCut? is about $300

[jeffk]

Hmmmmmmmmmm, more like 599. could be Cocut Pro

[OldPaint]

CO CUT IS A BRIDGE PROGRAM...and it has its own driver....for other machines. corle will cut to plotter if you treat the plotter like a printer. i uses HPGL to transmite info between plotter and computer. again it will only work if you have PRINTER PORT CONNECTION to the plotter!

[Techman]

CoCut is NOT a bridge program. There is no exporting to another program.

It is a plugin that works seamlessly within corel to make Corel a cutting sign program. Just as plug ins make photoshop more powerfull so does cocut make corel more powerfull.

Cocut and Corel is a very low priced but very powerfull combination. I am shocked that some pass on this setup simply because they think that a $2,000 program will do better.

Techman

[feizaguirre]

and I looking for a very cheap solution...got Corel 12 for $108 including shipping
thanks for the great advice
Fernando

[OldPaint]

CO-CUT IN ITS ORIGINAL INCEPTION WAS A BRIDGE PROGRAM.
corel leased its plotter engine to CO-CUT/EURO-CUT at the same time corel version 5 was released. cocut/euro cut was selling this at sign shows and its sales line was "it works seamlessly from within corel." as it should because it was corels program code!!! co cut/euro cut had the lease of this part of corel for 2 years. both corel 5 and 6 WILL NOT CUT TO PLOTTERS. after corel 7 was released this part was added back to corel. now cocut/euro-cut had the engine and the built a "plug in program" from that.

[Techman]

Personally, I don't care if cocut was the code to launch moon shots. IT works great. Does what its supposed to do. Makes Corel already a very good sign program even better.

Corel 9 for $40 bux + cocut $150 bux (used) = im running along side any body with a $4 grand sign program. No hassles, no problems, no worries about SP2, no worries about wihch OS its running. Never needed tech support. Never have to wonder when the next patch was comming out. Nothing negative. Plus it does some of its own stuff that makes life so grand. Any body who writes it off before even trying it is really missing out.

Some luv to cut direct to a cutter via corel. They wear it as a badge of independance and resourcefulness. They say it is free. Great for them..

ME, i like to be unlimited in options. Not to just a corel roland setup. Me and cocut and corel will run any cutter around fast and accurate from any computer that will run corel.
Techman

[OldPaint]

the newer co-cut is almost a full blown sign program, but its just adds to corel already very capable program.
some thing corel alone wont do but co-cut will is: PANELING/TILING, CUT BY COLOR, DISTORTIONS AND ARCH are much more in co-cut.
go here to get more info.
http://www.cocut.com/index.dml?unten=glossar/softwarearten-e.htm&von=html

[idsign]

Question about Corel/CoCut:

It seems that Corel / CorelTrace puts what seams to be a zillion extra points in a vector as compared to VMP or SignLab.

When CoCut sends plot thru driver/plotter, are these points 'smoothed' or is the cutter made to move (kinda jerky?) to each and every point along the path?

When I cut an .ai imported into VMP, the cut seems much more 'flowing' and faster than the same .ai imported into SignLab. Granted I am no pro in SignLab and it may be that I could make a SignLab plot seam less jerky using more advanced settings.

I like the speed and results of VMP trace to curves (crv) much better than CorelTrace to Corel vector (cdr). I feel more comfortable and productive editing curves in VMP - smoother results and more intuitive than manipulating bezier nodes and handles in Corel11. Opinions?

Barry

[jimdes]

Barry, I tried the current demo version with my Lynx 60. I purposfully tried exactly what you are talking about because of my experience of cutting from Corel. The results were the same as cutting directly from Corel.

You can smooth points in Corel and Corel Trace by using the "Curve Smoothness" option in the properties bar. You can also use a little Kamikaze smoothing by changing the "curve resolution" in the "HPGL Export" section of the options when preparing to save or plot.

A Curve resolution of .004 is typically recommended for most operations but I'm comfortable with .01, I also recommend setting pen velocity based on manufacturers recommendations for the materials you are cutting. Generally 35 cm/sec is acceptable but I tend to speed things as high as 50 cm/sec. on cast.

You want to leave your plotter units alone, those just mess up your scaling.

To test my settings, I draw a 3" X 3" 64 sided star and plot it out. Over draft (sharp, erratic points on inside corners) and under draft (rounded points on outside corners) can usually be corrected by adjusting pen speed. Jerkiness from too many points can be smoothed by decreasing the plotter resolution, I call it the Kamikaze method because you never know which points will be eliminated until you plot it. In fact, I'm really not sure how they do it, it just works and for most jobs, I'm okay with it. For finer jobs, I'll stick to the higher resolution settings.

I have a drawing I'll modify for your use to test your setup, complete with jerky circle and star!

[idsign]

Jim,

There is the expertise we need. Again, I spoke out of school not delving into the controls available from Corel and CorelTrace. I apologize.

Jim. Thanks for that test. Nice to learn from you. Nice to know.

Barry

[SteveB]

This is a great thread - sign programs that are constantly gouging users for multi $ upgrades will soon be a thing of the past I'm sure. Graphtec & Summa both bundle cutting programs with their cutters. Summa's also include a Corel Plug-in (bridge - I guess?) - I think Graphtec bundle an Illustrator plug-in. The newest release of Corel has an awesome video disk which teaches you most of what you will need. It's cheap, has a gazillion fonts, has awesome import & export facilities and if you need to add a workstation to your business there's no fiddly security dongles giving you headaches (& extra costs). Re too many nodes. there's a little slider in the coreltrace application that allows you to scan with a lot less or a lot more accuracy.
I deal with folks all the time who are being arm-wrestled into spending lots of $$'s on upgrades if they want to keep using the program they are familiar with, for example because their old software won't run on a newer operating system. Even though I am involved in selling up-grades, I advise them about the cheaper options like the new cutters bundled with cutting software, Corel / SignTools & now Co-cut which I'd never hear of before. For any of you guys looking at a $500+ upgrade, I'd advise you write/e-mail your supplier and explain that you are aware of all the new cheaper options available to you. WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO ABOUT IT. Maybe dropping the big fat upgrade $$ costs would be a start. You could always sell your software on e-bay and buy Corel & Signtools / Co-Cut with the proceeds - you'd have newer software and be released forever from the tyranny of out of date Sign Making software + the expensive upgrade path that goes hand in hand.
Corel is also really good at creating very small graphic components for the web / e-mailing so you can use it to make snappy, fast loading graphics for websites. Why not offer this as a free service to your customers? - You will supply 'free of charge' fast loading Gif's of any signage or graphics you do for them to use on their web-sites. It's easy, you just export your layouts as Gif's - the dialogue box holds your hand for the rest of the process.

[OldPaint]

VM PRO is a good alternative was $399 i think www.future-1.com go look. its a lot like corel in its working.
when i bought my plotter in 93 i got LETTER ART 6.0 with it. i was already GERBER-NEVER in this lifetime smart. guy tryed to seel me a 4b and when i got lookin at all the extra expense gettin a $1200 4b was not a good deal!!! and it only had 5-6 fonts!!!
ive played with geber GA softwear AND WAS SO GLAD I DIDNT buy that 4b. what a pain in the ass program compared to corel(which i had been using for a couple yreas when GA came out).
iam now cutting from corel 10 in XP. for a long time i messed with XP it wouldnt see my LPT-2 pci card, then the driver from roland was a dog....cut like a 4b......but if i loaded my 98se hard drive it cut normal.
the new XP DRIVER is version 2.70 and its the good one.

[Gazzz]

corel is a great vector based program, but don't waste your money on sign tools. Sign tools does nothing corel can't do, so if you think you're lacking in skills, keep your money and do some tutorials.