3M 180C : can anyone feedback on this ?

[zenith]

Hello
Im going to get some 180c for decal printing (mostly detail graphic print to apply on Laptop surface).
Has anyone use this ? Is it work with water based printing ?

(People says water based printing should be used with coated vinyl but to be honest,,, i dont know how to check if this is coated or uncoated :( so im looking forward to getting some feedback here).

Thx
Zenith

[Fred Weiss]

180C is a standard 3M cast vinyl with a special repositionable adhesive. It is not designed to work with water based inks.

[zenith]

i see, so am i going the right way checking those 3m-avery products or should i focus on other brands ? Seems like 3M and Avery dont supply water base printing right?

[Checkers]

What printer do you plan to print the graphics with?
IMHO, Controltac with comply is the industry standard that everyone else is trying to duplicate. However, I don't think 3M makes a Controltac that is compatible with aqueous inks. You can check for yourself though...

www.scotchprint.com

Click on the product selector link.

Checkers

[zenith]

actually, i m going to use print service from other local print shop, and they often use Mimaki, they got both solvent and water based printing but they suggest using water based to get high quality indoor print.

[Checkers]

IMHO, go with the the solvent print using 3M IJ 180 w/ Comply V2 and don't worry about the other stuff.
Anything aqueous is going to expensive when compared to solvent, and it will scratch very easy without laminate.
Solvent prints will scratch too, but it will take some effort. If the client wants a more durable finish, laminate it.

Checkers

[Gino]

Zenith….

If you’re only doing indoor prints and people aren’t going to be touching them… aqueous is probably going to be your nicest end result. Otherwise, if you need durability, even inside, go with a solvent or mild solvent print. You can always laminate.

The quality of the prints will depend on your files as to how nice it will look regardless of the media or method, unless they have low end equipment. Four, six, twelve color and so on will all look nice if the files are well made. Old saying, garbage in….. garbage out.

We use both methods… and 180 vs. high-end coated are just about the same price and it doesn’t really matter too much when you’re talking pennies at any volume.

[zenith]

Nice feedback Gino.

Problem is i contacted 3M for a solution, they introduced me the 180c - its solvent based, but a local guy told me that i couldnt have nice graphic with solvent based printing and he told me to use a low price PP with water based printing. That kind of material gives me a headache with bubble after apply (this is not a good idea for my business in which my customers will apply the vinyl by themselves)

So should i trust 3M or the local guy?(Avery recommended me MPI1004EZ too, and that makes me confused cause once again, its solvent based)

And any highend coated recommend ?

thx

[Lasvegassigns]

You can use avery IPM2500 Calendared Matte Vinyl

or 3m 8522 for pigment based inks

I use the IPM2500 a lot with my Epson, It should work just fine for you.

I would laminate it though especially if it is going on a laptop which will get touched a lot

[zenith]

yeah, nice, thx you lasvegassigns.

ps : they are bubble free right?

[Lasvegassigns]

You shouldn't have a problem with something as small as a laptop...... Just make sure you laminate it. That will also make it alot easier to lay down (lamination really is a must with any water based prints)

I have layed down 36" x96" prints with the IPM2500 and have not had any bubble problems. The material is a little wierd compared to regular vinyl but once you laminate it it is pretty easy to work with. Use a felt squeegee and take your time at first.

[iSign]

So should i trust 3M or the local guy?


Trust 3M,
everyone here will back up the fact that the 180C is one of the most forgiving vinyls for getting bubble free application, and if there is a slight "wrapping' to be done, on corners of a laptop... 180C is your best friend again... but I also agree that lamination is required for durability.. so if they will be trying to wrap the edges of the laptop, use a flexible laminate like Oraguard 290

I think the whole angle of waterbased prints being better for indoor prints is a statement that has truth for a specific market segment, like photo or fine art reproduction... like several hundred dollar prints where color correction is a potential deal breaker. In your case, the statement that you "couldnt have nice graphic with solvent based printing" is absolute BS... most of us here who print, are printing with solvent, & the prints are amazing. I use a Mimaki & sell several hundred dollar prints every day. I'm sure your printer with the mimaki has prints he can show you... go see for yourself... far too nice to ever worry about spoiling a sale of a $15 laptop skin. :rolleyes:

[Valentino]

i used 180C today, we were doing some striping, and over the corners is was alittle flimsy, we were using the solid red and not the printing material.

but. it makes you look like a pro when you hardly get any bubbles, and the bubbles you get, disappear with you put you finger over them.

[johnnysigns]

i'd say the 180C should be a huge selling point if your customers are installing themselves. while there will still be problems on their end because of lack of experience, wrinkles and bubbles will greatly be reduced.

[zenith]

thx for every feedbacks guys, it helps much because i cant get sample to test here, so i have to consider carefully before buying some small rolls for sample print