Educating Buyers on the Value of Custom Work. . . .

[rjssigns]

Hello,

Any suggestions on how to Educate buyers on the Value of Custom signs, graphics, and logos? I'm looking for verbage that incorporates a term other than the word Custom. Unfortunately Custom no longer holds the weight it did years ago. Why is that? Has that term been Overused? Have Sign Companies been Undercharging for Custom work? Even if a competitor uses the exact same material and equipment to produce a similar sign, it would still not be the same product as they would have received from us for the simple fact that individual intellect, interpretation, direction of research, and design cannot be duplicated. Neither can service, nor attention to detail be assembly-lined.

Now, Our competitor's design may be perfect for a present prospect, and Our design perfect for the next prospect. But to Ever be dupped into a price war is Never comparing Apples to Apples when it comes to Custom production.

We should all price our work according to our cost of overhead (incl. Time, intellectual property, materials, taxes, depreciation, rent/lease/mortgage, etc.). However, we will have to follow up with some type of educational statement that nicely explains the Custom design process and vast differences of artist interpretation and output.

Perhaps at the intial inquiry for a custom design we need to ask them up-front, "Are you familiar with the Prototype process?" Because in my view, Prototyping is exactly what we're doing, which involves meeting with the client, assessing their needs and doing the research, which is all part of the Custom Design process. Again, something they Cannot buy off a shelf, Ever!

How did Custom work ever get diluted and valueless? And, how can we educate, or Re-educate the Public? Perhaps it's ourselves that need educating.

Apologies for being lengthy.
Sherry
rjssigns.com

[wingman]

According to Wikipedia, custom (when used in the form of customization) is anything made or MODIFIED to personal taste. Modified could be the reason the word custom has been watered down, as modified tends to bring the belief that "it" is not original. Try using the word personalized (again according to Wikipedia)as it means tailoring a consumer product, electronic or written medium to a user, based on personal details or characteristics they provide. Whew, that's a mouthful.:Canada 2:

[rjssigns]

Thank you wingman for your thoughtout response. Your suggestion has given me another approach to the "Educating Customers on the Value of Custom Work" topic. Unfortunately around here, even the work Personalized is valueless. But I did not think of checking into Wikepedia, which I will do in the future. Perhaps we need to invent a new word for Custom. Afterall we're in the age of IPod, Wii, Blackberries, and Spanks.
I've read other posts that basically say the "client doesn't want to hear explanations." So I guess this falls under the saying, "For those of you who understand. . . no explanation necessary. For those who don't understand . . .no explanation will do."
Bummer
Sherry
rjssigns.com

[JMDigital]

All I can say about this is good luck. Now everyone with Publisher and a PC is a signs professional or designer. The value of a custom job has vanished. The only way I ever try and do it is one on one , I relate it to their current business. Whatever their business is they know the value of that business.

again good luck and if you figure it out let me know.. :)

[wingman]

Sherry, IMO, you are correct in saying that customers do not want to hear explanations, they want to hear that you have what they are looking for, on their terms. You just need to be a little more diligent in making your customer lean towards your terms.:Canada 2:

[rjssigns]

JMDigital and wingman, it's great to hear I'm not alone on this subject. We have too much $$ invested in software, hardware, printing/cutting equipment, and wide-format laminator to turn back now.

I'm more determined than Ever to hold our ground on price, quality, and professionalism. As wingman said it, "our terms."

A 40-year Interior Designer from Los Angeles once told me to provide prospects with a portfolio and explanation of what we do. The clients you secure from your literature will be the clients you Will want, as they will be the clients that will appreciate the value of what you do. I just hope those prospects don't only exist in Los Angeles.

Time and persistance will tell.

Sherry
rjssigns

[markz]

greetings, one way i would suggest is to forget the "verbage".
pic's speak louder than words, words are cheap-the public seems to be more "suspicious" every year.

i see you don't have a website, pics on a site would help. before & after. gotta show 2....get the dough !


check out my site by diazmedia, link-before & after page.
i'm not great but this has helped "convince" or reassure the type of segment your frustrated with.
GOoD luck ! chappy Z

[Craig Sjoquist]

Blah blah blah...blah blah blah ..get real will ya this is 2007 everybody and there mothers son & daughter is a computer artist now, all thise words to discribe your great work however much or whatever you charge more power to ya...but a real fact is if your doing lets say outstanding work..business ppl who know and are smart enough will come to you garrenteed ..if your not doing average or better ya best be a hustler or you be selling out ..simple as that
marketing with excellent word choice and display NOW IS everybodys hustle and well needed and a must do
you might say we have gone from ...sign painters -to-sign makers -to- advertising image creators

13 folds

[rjssigns]

Hello,

Markz, great website! You do very nice work. We have a website, it's rjssigns.com. Not as sophisticated website as yours, nor do we have the latest and greatest photos posted. I have noticed that our website doesn't get the hits we would like, so we've lost steam in that area.

You're also right about customers being suspicious with extracurricular verbage, however, as Craig Sjoquist, and others, have said that everyone and their mother's sons and daughters have a computer and offer designs. I would like to add to that statement that, they have computers and can design, but rarely IF ever do I get their designs in an acceptible format for Large-format output. They mostly do not understand the term Vector, nor do they understand layers. So I find myself having to explain the difference between us and them.

Also Craig brought up about the progression from sign painter to advertising image creators. . . That progression has probably happened due to everyone and their mother's sons and daughters having a computer and some design software. Now we have to Explain how we're different. At least I find that to be so.

Craig Sjoquist, regarding the "everyone has got to hustle" aspect of it, I have no problem with hard work. However I want to remain vigilant and focused on what it is I'm hustling, And under what terms, lest we lose our focus and succumb to the "everybody's doing it", mentality. Brings us to the "tail wagging the dog" approach. You are also right about the having Outstanding work, and word of mouth. I would like to add needing outstanding service. Thank you for your input.


Sherry
rjssigns

[Checkers]

One trick to make life easier for you is to find clients that are already buying signs on a regular basis. They already know the value :)
Also, signs are outdoor advertising - www.oaaa.org
And even though there are many laws that limit signage, the SBA has some great information...
http://www.sba.gov/smallbusinessplanner/start/pickalocation/signage/index.html

Checkers

[onesource]

Custom signs? I've never heard such a thing. I say price it and let it go. If your customer wants it they will buy it. Don't sweat it you're in the sign biz and you will be dealing with issues on a daily basis, just handle it and go on.
Good luck.

[rjssigns]

Love your approach and attitude onesource.

Sherry
rjssigns

[Gino]

Just about everything you do is going to be custom. If it wasn’t, you’d be the salesperson in the sign department at the neighborhood hardware store selling ‘car for sale, boat for sale, house for sale, do not enter, no parking, no loitering, no smoking…………...

Whenever one buys a sign, they are probably buying a one of a kind. If it’s a silkscreen project, it’s also probably a once and done run. Repeat orders happen from time to time and they still remain custom from the first run. They belong to the owner and no one can ever duplicate it completely.

The only run-of-the-mill signs are ‘sold signs for real estate signs, ‘wide load’ for trucks, stop signs and so forth. Even a simple ‘For Sale by Owner’ is custom made in your shop. You’re gonna change out the colors, type and phone…. Sure, it might be the same pattern or template, but it’s still being customized.

You perception of custom is probably where your problem lies. Don’t be too anxious to sell people a custom sign and push it as being ‘Custom’. As Onesource said, they’re all the same. It’s your craftsmanship, quality, knowledge and service that makes a sign unique and worth more than the guy’s shop down the street. Anyone can create a sign, but how many perfectly fugly made signs do you see on the street ?? Ha…. plenty. If yours are truly better for the reasons I mentioned earlier, that’s where you need to educate your customers… not some term that is overused. That is what puts you in the same league than… as the others.

Don’t re-educate the customer…. but educate him.

[rjssigns]

Hi Gina,

Thank you for your response. You're very right, some signs are typical yet still need data and color changes, yet pretty straight-forward. Even these straight-forward signs cannot be purchased off the store shelf.


Mostly my frustration lies in 'some' clients expecting to pay mass-produced prices for their 'custom' (onesy, twosy) requests. I'm not sure how that came about. Perhaps because everyone has a computer and some design software? Perhaps, because there are many cutter, printer, and plotter owners? Either way, I'm looking for how to handle price objections. Better Yet, I'm searching for how to Avoid price objections from the on-set. My first thought was to Educate Buyers on the Value of their Custom work.

I've gotten some really super responses on this post, but I'm always open to More suggestions on this subject. In this case, suggestions that I can really 'sink my teeth into.' Afterall, how can any custom, short-run production company justify selling anything at 'mass-produced' prices?



Suggestions?

Sherry
rjssigns

[Checkers]

Hiya Sherry,
Making a sign is easy, if it wouldn't be considered animal cruelty, I'm sure someone would be trying to teach monkeys to do it. Running a sign business is a totally different story, which few in this industry have the proper skills to do.
IMHO, there are several ways to seperate yourself from the crowd, but none are easy or a cure-all. This has been discussed before and I'm sure if you search the archives, you'll find a lot of useful info.
In the mean time, here are a few more links for you to review...
http://www.signs.org/SignIndustry/content.cfm?ItemNumber=1665&snItemNumber=1667&token=33386&userID=
http://www.nyssbdc.org/whatsyoursignage/
http://www.signagefoundation.org/
There's also a downloadable video kicking around somewhere on the ISA's web site.

Checkers

[rjssigns]

Hi Checkers (a.k.a. Brian Born), Super Links, I checked every one of them out, including your website. . . very nice!

Lots of really good information, some of which game me ideas.:rolleyes: One idea of which goes back to my Business Plan writing course. The lecturers Encourage establishing yourself as the Industry Leader. Writing a specialized column in the local newspaper, trade magazines, or giving lectures and training are some examples. I think you would be very good at any one of them. I, on the other hand, have a lot more to learn. The links you provided me should help move me further in the right direction. Thanks for your help!

Sherry
rjssigns

[rjssigns]

Hi Again Checkers, I also took your advice to peruse the archives of signs101 for prior discussions of the "standing out of the crowd" subject. From a much earlier Post: June 2003, I found a link to Michael Bieruit's "The Road to Hell, Part Two: That Elusive Silver Bullet!" The ending of his article really hits Home on the subject of Educating Buyers on Value! Great Read, and so true. I know now what I Must Do. . .


Article Below:

Business Week's Bruce Nussbaum, finding himself at the center of the anti-spec work maelstrom earlier this summer, responded with an observation that has stuck with me. In a competitive world, he wrote, "value is not created by rules or prohibitions but by what one brings to the game. Architects, writers, industrial designers, painters, journalists, baseball players, screenwriters and many other creative professionals understand that. Heck, the entire business community around the globe understands that."
Admit it: Nussbaum has a point. As a class, we designers long to wrap ourselves in the bulletproof cloak of our profession, thinking that if "a place at the table" is reserved for something called "design," maybe we can slide into that empty seat. But the game doesn't bring the player; the player brings the game. Every great designer I've ever met has gotten respect the old fashioned way, by earning it. The means to that end are glorious in their variety. There is no one true path to victory, no silver bullet. I know some designers who are incredible strategists; others who are charismatic witchdoctors; still others who are patient teachers; and a few who are just plain magicians. Each successful designer has to prove him or herself with every new project and every new client. And, perhaps, with each new success the job gets a little easier for the rest of us.
It's time to stop being defensive. You may never find that silver bullet. But you can always improve your aim.


:cool1:


I couldn't have said it better.
Sherry
rjssigns

[iSign]

Sherry,
great thread. I like your thoughtful posting & can see that you bring out a good deal of that from the rest of us.

My first reaction was to advise against wasting too much effort educating the "clients expecting to pay mass-produced prices for their 'custom' ...requests"

Later you said you are "searching for how to Avoid price objections from the onset" and my feeling was the same... don't buy into it and waste too much time educating. You can't sell everyone, so it's OK to quickly say "well, I've got several highly involved projects I need to get back to for my current clients, thanks for the opportunity to provide you with my quote"

I have become somewhat arrogant in my dealings with tire kickers over the years, and I don't mean to say that is a good thing for others. I try not to ever be rude, but I stand my ground not only on price, but on MY perception of value... AND on my time.

Defending the things I stand my ground on is a waste of time & is not really standing my ground... it is asking for it.

It's MY ground ...this is my price, I'm busy... take it or leave it, I'm going back to making a satisfied customers sign now. (I don't say that, but I operate from an awareness of that fact)

I started this reply saying it was my first reaction to reply as I have above.
My second impression was to find the verbiage you seek & put it to use on your website. That is a different story, and I'm in the process of designing a new website right now. I was speaking just yesterday with my marketing partner (http://www.signs101.com/forums/images/mp-ffwd-logo.jpg) about how I plan to do just that.

I've got more to say on this then I have time to type, but in 2 months, I'd like to believe my own web site will say what I think about that.

My short answer to how to educate potential clients about value: Tell them the price, once. End of story, they are now educated.

If they need further education, they can leave, find that others charge the same, or find that others offer less... or be too dumb to find anything except another doorstep to darken.

I liked the quotes you just posted & the "patient teacher" seems to be the approach you might like. In all honesty, many of my clients would describe me that way. Over the last 10 years, that tendency has led to a good share of the wasted time I've regretted... but it has also sold the first job to some important repeat clients.... so I don't mean to suggest being greedy with your time all the time... but over the last 10 years, I've gotten much better at discerning who is more woth the time to educate, and who is not. The key to developing that discernment is accepting that some people are not worth the time, so that is more the point of my post above.

The advice you mentioned regarding attempting to become a recognized expert is great advice. Our business leads organization had a speaker come in who teaches that same concept... in fact, as he says, "he wrote the book on it" ...check out his site:
http://www.recognizedexpert.com/

Another suggested reading I'm sure you will enjoy is an old. but timeless article by our own Sign maniac:

http://www.letterhead.com/articles/bob_stephens/index.html

[knifemaker3]

Sherry,
This is a great thread. Let me tell you something I've learned from several different things I've done in my life and the lessons I've learned from them.

1. I've been a "custom" knifemaker for over 18 years and have seen many fabulous makers who never "made it" in the custom knife field.
2. I've worked with guys who people would just automatically go to them when they had a question or wanted a certain thing done.
3. I used to hunt coondogs when I was younger and the country wasn't so crowded with people on every road. I've heard about and hunted against many so called top hunting dogs with big pedigrees and guess what. My old unregistered half bluetick half redbone usually out treed all of them.

I've said this to say one thing. "THE SQUEEKY GEAR GETS THE GREASE!!!!"

Yep, that's right. It the guy who talks the most that gets the most people looking up to them. And they don't even have to have the better dog, or product, or even work ethics.....they just make you believe they do.

Does that mean they are better than you? NO! Are they better just because they are cheaper? NO!

Just do the very best job you can do for every customer you get, charge according to what you have to make in order to survive, and either the customers will come to you or you will have to look for another source of income.

I'm bettin you'll gain lots of customer who will be willing to pay a little more for the quality service you obviously must provide. After all, if you didn't care about your customer and giving them the best job for their money you wouldn't even be concerned in the first place.
And those are the kind of customers you want. The ones who are willing to pay for the quality they expect. Not the ones who just want something cheap!
So just hang in there!

Hope this helps.

[rjssigns]

Hi iSign and Knifemaker3,

iSign, I like your response idea, "well, I've got several highly involved projects I need to get back to for my current clients, thanks for the opportunity to provide you with my quote." Some say to educate the clients, without sounding like you're complaining. Hard feat to achieve, but iSign your approach accomplishes just that.

I also had a good chuckle on your short answer on how to educate potential clients about value: Tell them the price, once. End of story, they are now educated. Loved it!

I checked out the two links you referred, and I plan to finish reading Sign Maniac's article at letterhead.com.


Knifemaker3 thank you for the compliment. We try hard to be conscientious in our finished product. However, the attention to detail we provide has, at times come back to bite us due to taking longer to produce the job than we anticipated. This is probably where my problem lies regarding educating the client about what they will be getting from us, as opposed to what they would get from their cousin Ed who has a cutter and computer in his spare bedroom, as an example.

Our name will go on these products and services, so I guess you can see we have an ulterior motive for doing the best job we possibly can.

Which brings me a conclusion: Perhaps the next time a potential buyer tells me that "so and so only charges such and such." My response should be, "Well, then I guess we place a HiGheR value on the products we sell than so and so places on theirs."


Just a thought. Hopefully a viable one.

Sherry
rjssigns

[rjssigns]

Thank you everyone for your insightful comments. This post has definately given me a lot to think about.

Sherry
rjssigns

[iSign]

this thread was too good to die away yet, so I hope we still see some more insightful comments on it.

[rjssigns]

iSign I appreciate your support and interest in the subject of Educating Buyers on Value. After checking out the recommended reads from prior posts on this thread, I came across a Post made by Fred Weiss, Admin, dated: 09-10-2006. If you search: "qualifying the customer", it will lead you to the thread. Below is an except of Fred's suggestions, and I hope my reposting his thoughts (or others) are allowed, but I think they are worth another looksee.

Several items in Fred's posts hit very close to home, such as:
1. Are you spending your time with too many of the wrong Customers?
2. Are you spending your time doing mundane work and letting the Customer dictate the products you will make or are you,

Establishing your credibility
Qualifying the customer
Selling the customer on you as the expert
Taking the focus off price and placing it on effective solutions
Closing the deal and the relationship
Securing it with appropriate documentation?He also goes on to say, "But I would also suggest that the majority of the money spent for signs comes from a minority of successful individuals and organizations who are willing to pay more for getting it right than in getting cheap. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to gear yourself to attract and satisfy these clients."

__________________

Fred has many other very relevant questions on that date, but my immediate concern is in improving my skills at "qualifying the customer."

I have searched this site, and did not find specifics (pertaining to the sign industry) on qualifying the buyer. I have ideas, but they might not be what Fred meant exactly.

To Qualify the Buyer, do I ask questions such as:
1. Do you have an Account with us? (then expain requirements)
2. Have your registered with us (more for online sales)
3. Are you familiar with our Company and the business solutions we provide? (then send a follow-up video introduction about our solutions to see if we are a good fit for them).
4. What is your advertising budget for on-site, mobile, and specialty marketing? (If they don't meet the minimum shop amount, look for ways to up-sell).


I don't believe these type of questions would send our potential buyers running away in a huff. At least not the ones we would want. But what do I know. Hopefully it would also give us an invitation to send them a detailed brochure, or a 5-10 minute video intro on how we can help them.

Or does qualifying the Buyer simply mean asking them,
1. What are your needs, and when do you need it? I typically ask this already. . . (I try to get all the details of their Needs).

So having said this, I believe we may have to start a new thread titled:
QUALIFYING THE CUSTOMER. . .what works?
Or, HOW TO QUALIFY THE CUSTOMER. So rather than focusing on Educating the buyers about Us, perhaps this New thread would Educate Us about Our Buyers.

At least that is what I would hope to accomplish from the input.

Thoughts?

Sherry
rjssigns

P.S. Fred Weiss, if you're reading this, tell me if I'm on the right track or way off base. Thank you in advance.

[iSign]

So having said this, I believe we may have to start a new thread titled:
QUALIFYING THE CUSTOMER. . .what works?
Or, HOW TO QUALIFY THE CUSTOMER.

we don't need a new thread... I can tell you how to do that...
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look at their shoes :thumb:

...their watch or jewlery is another good indicator
..and of course if you can see what they are driving also...

Now you should have all you need to go on! :Big Laugh

[iSign]

ok, seriously..

2 other comments I thought of sharing here.
One is an excellent line I first heard from another talented sign guy & business person named Glenn Taylor. I'm sure many have said it, or realized it on their own, but he opened my eyes (through an on-line post like this) to the fact that:

Regardless of price, if a sign does what it is intended to do, it doesn't cost you any money... it makes you money!

The other advice was to make sure you are aware of our sponsoring merchants here at signs101, specifically Marketing Partners. (http://www.nsites.net/index.cfm?member=jonaston) I've mentioned Jon Aston on a few recent posts, & I'll mention again here, that he has helped me with these kinds of questions (how to "qualify" the customer)for years, so... just like with signs, if he is doing his job right, he doesn't cost you any money either... & I wouldn't still be working with Jon for over three years now, if I didn't think I was producing results in terms of increased sales that more then pay his fees. Check it out!

[Bogie]

look at their shoes

...their watch or jewlery is another good indicator
..and of course if you can see what they are driving also...

Let's see.... I wear comfortable shoes or combat boots. If the ankle isn't acting up, I'll wear my Corcoran jump boots with the vibrams...

I don't wear a watch. Only jewelery is an earring.

My car's 11 years old. And paid for. And apart from needing paint, and a few parking lot door dings fixed, it's well-maintained. I wouldn't hesitate to drive a long-distance trip in it.

I spent $20K on stuff last month. A pretty fair portion of it with a fellow who didn't look at the shoes, the jewelery, the car, or the tie-dye I was wearing...

I look to see if they know what they want. Or if they want ME to know what they want, because they're smart enough that they don't know what they NEED... Anything in the middle tends to be a PITA...

I think that the term we are looking for here is "professional."

[iSign]

:Big Laugh = joke

[knifemaker3]

look at their shoes

...their watch or jewlery is another good indicator
..and of course if you can see what they are driving also...

Now you should have all you need to go on!

I just got to tell you a little story about a job I had hauling propane for a local company. A customer came in to buy propane for their home heating. Of course they were almost out of propane already and demanded we bring them more. They had not paid for the previous 2 deliveries. They pulled up in a brand new dodge 3/4 ton diesel pickup. She was wearing some kind of fancy jewelry and a nice business suit for women, etc. He was wearing a shirt and tie with fancy leather dress shoes. Looked and acted very wealthy. When the boss told them they had to pay their bill before we could deliver more the lady stated "We just can't! We just got back yesterday from vacation in Cancun!"

Don't always trust their looks as being indicators of being good customers. Around here some of the most wealthy people may just show up in a beat up old pickup in blue jeans boots and usually with a little dirt or cow manure on boots or jeans or both!

iSign, I don't mean this in a negative way towards your post. Just saying you can't always tell who might be your next BEST customer......
And I realize you are just joking from your last post

[njsigns]

look at their shoes :thumb:

...their watch or jewlery is another good indicator
..and of course if you can see what they are driving also...

Now you should have all you need to go on! :Big Laugh

I've known a few strippers that successfully use this method to decide if they'll flirt with you, then take your wallet for a ride!

It's also been my experience that these same people (appearing to be wealthy) are the ones trying to beat me up on my prices! Maybe they spent all their money on toys? Or strippers...
:Big Laugh
Gene

[njsigns]

:Oops:

I didn't mean to pollute this thread, sorry. There really is some great information here.

Gene

[SignosaurusRex]

CUSTOMer service is what sells custom SIGNS

[Bogie]

Well, I think that the first salesman I dealt with used the "shoes, watch and jewelery" method with me.

I mean, I walked in, told him I'd been used to dealing with one of the folks from his company, who is now in another department, and that I used to be the guy speccing for the Fortune 100 company a few miles over, and that I wanted to buy a printer. I knew exactly what I wanted, and I knew the cost and features. I did want a little bit of a refresher "this is what's cool with the new model" bit.

Also looked toward some other stuff. I had questions. He wanted to play games with the answers. So I started doing my own research. NEVER let your customers do their own research. Have it ready for 'em, on a platter.

I spent about $6,000 with one of his competitors because of that.

Again, the word we are looking for is "professional."

Everyone and their brother thinks that "graphic design" is fun, and it's what their niece is studying in between spring breaks, and all that.

"Custom" is overused. And it also leads the customer to think that _they_ are in charge. Yes, they are, but to a point. If they're completely in charge, why have you? That makes you only an assembly person. It's our job to tactfully lead them away from Stupid Things, like red type on a blue truck, just for instance... And heaven forbid you let a customer have you put a typo on a sign... Because someone will tell him about it. And since he's obviously not stupid, it must be your fault. So, it's time for professional tact again. Whip out other examples, the dictionary, the internet, anything you can do, because they'll argue with you. Until their next door neighbor tells 'em that their sign guy screwed up the side of their truck...

Professional customer service, combined with consistent quality, produces customers who come back.

[TLT692]

[quote=

How did Custom work ever get diluted and valueless? And, how can we educate, or Re-educate the Public? Perhaps it's ourselves that need educating.

[/quote]

The biggest reason that our work has been devalued is also one of the most important tools some of us use. The COMPUTER. On weekends I make license plates at a flea market. I had a lady last week who was in a wheel chair and was obviously trying to make her daughters life miserable say to her daughter " He doesn't have to do anything, the computer does it all for him". So when the vinyl was done cutting I simply took it over and handed it to her and said "Here you go, you said I don't have to do anything". At that point she gave me a small smile and we both knew that the computer is just a tool and we both proceeded to give her daughter a hard time. The more technology you use the less percieved value things have so sometimes you have to explain it.

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

The word "custom" went to hell with mass-produced made-to-order pc's. To further damage the word, the fact that we use computers on a daily basis has lead many to believe that the "computer does it for us" (don't we all wish that was the case!)

Everybody that has posted has very good points but there is still more to it.

For starters, everybody like to spend money - even us. The thrill of the chase is to get the greatest value for something either A) equivalent or B) superior.

It is not out of the ordinary, nor unusual, for a business to charge more than the next guy and be successful in doing that. The key differences that we have seen are the ability instill confidence and perseverance. In other words, a business cannot charge more without some type of justification in customer's eyes. (In the past, the word "custom" would suffice. It no longer does.) The installation of confidence starts with our own beliefs that we are producing something that cannot be had elsewhere. The perseverance is not only the ability to follow through BUT also the hunger of "hunting" the work that we so much desire, coupled with the patience of time to prove it. The phrase of "build it and they will come" is BULLSHIT in the world of business. (Proper "hunting" requires the ability to focus, otherwise achieving the desired target is pure chance.)

As Rex stated, "customer service" is one as aspect. One example would be the difference between the service departments of Mercedes dealership, and that of Chevrolet dealership. Quality is another aspect but a bit more elusive, due to the fact that only time will prove that to the customer. One of the last and the most expensive for us to provide is the creativity. Visually speaking, creativity is what "wows" everybody, but is often short-lived due to the eventual mimicking that will follow. Unless the customer already has the idea, we in the sign business can and do spend a lot of time on unpaid creativity (aka Design).

Signweb has an excellent article on "getting in the door". http://www.signweb.com/index.php/channel/4/id/2073
This article shows signage for new grocery stores. The key points that they make are as follows:

1. The number one requirement is a high level of personal service.
2. The next thing that they require is dealing with "seasoned professionals".
3. Just as important as the two points above, is the ability to "tightly manage subcontractors", which they term as the weakest link.

If you notice, creativity is not on that list because creativity is viewed as a different aspect of the process. As mentioned already creativity can come from within or they WILL pay for the creativity separately. If you notice, seasoned pros eliminates the newcomers that everybody so worries about. The ability to manage is extremely important, yet elusive to many who refuse to admit it. Personal service always comes first.

I think by now everybody get the idea of where I am going with the above. In order to achieve the status that many of us desire we must be around long enough and truly confident that we are the best ass-kissers big money can buy with the ability to control what we are doing.

Please take note, this custom work is not the only way to make large amounts money in the business of signs.

We mentioned the Mercedes and the Chevy dealers. Guess what, they both make excellent amounts of money YET they serve two very different client types. Due to a lower market share, Mercedes dealers get an assigned market area, resulting in fewer M/B dealerships. Just the opposite are the Chevy dealerships, where they are virtually on every corner. Every owner of a Chevy dealership would love to own a MB dealership but that is truly not realistic and NO WAY would the same sacrifice the Chevy dealership for the HOPE of owning a MB dealership.

The Chevy dealership still charges more than the many local repair shops and used car dealers but they tout their level of service and their seasoned professionals, which everybody believes to be true. They will not waste time on those that do not believe it.

The point is that we all do what we do to make money, and lots of it (unless, of course, we are willing to work for beer). Wasting time trying to convince everybody that we are their best choice is just that - a waste of time. If the truth were known, we have only 30 seconds to win a person a over and convince them that we are their best choice. After that the proof is "in the pudding". To our advantage, people do not like change, so unless we give them a reason - they are not going anywhere.

It starts at the "mouth", with the ability to reinforce what comes out of it.

[Bogie]

Another thing - I consider myself to be a graphic designer, not a graphic artist. Big difference there. I'm far more of a technician and craftman. "Artists" produce those magazine ads that you can't read. "Designers" have one goal - communication.

[rjssigns]

Super! We're BOT (back on topic).

Very good insight Pro Signs and Graphixs, very well explained.

Bogie very True about NEVER letting the customer do their own Research. That approach aught to come in handy for me, as sometime I research things to Death!

TLT692 I understand your thoughts completely about the idea that some have that "Computers do all the work, and 'we' don't have to do anything" perception. Good response to her comment by the way.

As for CUSTOMer service (good one SignosaurusRex), it's the initial visit, or Price Quote that is really the issue, at least for me. Getting buyers to think 'Beyond Price', 'Beyond the persona of cheap vinyl', and Beyond this idea that 'Computers Do It All for Us.'

There are a lot of Super Ideas on this Thread . . . Maybe someone, some day, will write the Book on handling every sign / price objective.


Sherry
rjssigns.com
_________________________________________

"We readily accept opinions that that validate our own opinions."

[threeputt]

Very good thread. I particularly like Isign's attitude. It's similar to my own. You got to know which client's to "waste" time with. Some we sort of "show the door to" when we get a good feeling that they're not serious buyers. All of this is done in a polite way, sometimes not even noticed by the client.

As far as trying to convince some clients of the value of our work, I say be careful. If your store showroom has nice displays, and everything about you says "class", only a blind person couldn't see the difference between you and ...let's say, a lesser shop.

Trying to much to explain some things just doesn't work, usually. Who was it that said, "thou protesteth too much"?

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

You got to know which client's to "waste" time with

I once thought I knew which clients were worthy. Nowadays, I just eliminate that from the equation and run the 30 second clock. If they bite - we continue. If not - they may be directed to a wall or a book, etc. etc. - all passive sales tools that allow me to go about my business.

The reason we do not put serious faith in one's appearance is due to an incident that I had years ago. I had one of those poorly dressed customers (stained T and torn jeans) I politely told him that we could not get it done (it was Saturday afternoon) and went back to work. The customer quietly left. I justified it all by saying to myself that he could not afford it anyway. After an hour or so he called and asked if he could drop the vehicle off, and again I reiterated it will be Monday at the soonest. Monday comes and he pays the $1500 invoice and proceeds to brag that he has 30 vehicles and that if we take care of him we will get them all. (I am still saying to myself "yeah right")

The following day he calls and says that he is sending another vehicle. This estimate is $3500 and I am still saying "yeah right" but as long as he keeps sending and paying for the work, we will keep going.

In that very first year he spent $100k! Not bad for someone with a lousy appearance, and a damned good thing I kept my mouth shut! We became close enough that I was able to tell him about my initial impression. He told me that was the second reason he came back - the first being that I was sincere about our work.

[dswanson]

lol lousy appearances made me eat crow, first week I was at my new shop this guy came in that flat out looked like a bum! My boss spent about 45 minutes with him while I was just rolling my eyes and thinking to myself what a waste of time, turns out this guy is a surgeon who OWNS a private cardiac hospital, has his own jet (not plane), a 3 million dollar yacht on the west coast and a 5 million dollar yacht in Florida, WHOOPS (but I swear even after knowing all this he still looks like a bum) my employer's response was the people you have to becareful of are the one's with big hats and no cattle. too funny I prefer chicken to crow

[Gino]

Must be talkin' about Frank....... hahahahaha. I guess all the locations and people working there are his herd.

[Bogie]

Frank rocks, but Dino was cooler overall...

Professionalism.

ANYONE can customize. The aim is to be professional while doing so. Advertise that.

[rjssigns]

After checking out the recommended reads from prior posts on this thread, I came across a Post made by Fred Weiss, Admin, dated: 09-10-2006. If you search: "qualifying the customer", it will lead you to the thread. Below is an except of Fred's suggestions, and I hope my reposting his thoughts (or others) are allowed, but I think they are worth another looksee.

Several items in Fred's posts hit very close to home, such as:
1. Are you spending your time with too many of the wrong Customers?
2. Are you spending your time doing mundane work and letting the Customer dictate the products you will make or are you,

Establishing your credibility
Qualifying the customer
Selling the customer on you as the expert
Taking the focus off price and placing it on effective solutions
Closing the deal and the relationship
Securing it with appropriate documentation?He also goes on to say, "But I would also suggest that the majority of the money spent for signs comes from a minority of successful individuals and organizations who are willing to pay more for getting it right than in getting cheap. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to gear yourself to attract and satisfy these clients."

__________________



Fred has many other very relevant questions on that date, but my immediate concern is in improving my skills at 'qualifying the customer.'
I have searched this site, and did not find specifics on qualifying the buyer. I have ideas, but they might not be what Fred meant exactly.

Any thoughts on the specifics of qualifying the customer?

I read everything! Fred Weiss, if you're reading this, can you elaborate?


Sherry
rjssigns

[onesource]

If you have an area for your customers put out some different size signs with prices on them, might get them over some sticker shock.
Have a structured questioning method on how to help your customer get what they want.
Hi I'm Soni what can I help you with.
I'm Jimbob I need a sign.
Nice to meet ya Jimbob, I can help you with that.
What's the sign for? (this is where you listen closely)
I have a store front that needs my name on the windows.
No problem do you want something just plain or very nice. ( He will tell you if he's being cheap right here)
Plain.
Ok what are you wanting to say?
Jimbobs mower shop. ( you should have the layout in your head right now BLOCK well mayby a little script)
How big are your windows? (Jimbob can read a tape)
5' wide
Price him and get it overwith.

You can take charge a little better when you get your questioning consistant.
Jimbob isn't sure about what he needs so you can say are yo looking for a lit sign in the 3000 up range or panel signs like plywood or aluminum that are under 1000. He tells all right here. He says 1000 bucks for plywood? then you say depends on how fancy you want it but generally a 4x8 will range in the 400 -600 dollar mark on average but I do some very nice ones too.
He says I was thinking of something cheaper..... well anyways you know what to do from here.
You have simply qualified them at the same time you recieved your information.
I kinda had fun with that

[rjssigns]

If you have an area for your customers put out some different size signs with prices on them, might get them over some sticker shock.
Have a structured questioning method on how to help your customer get what they want.
Hi I'm Soni what can I help you with.
I'm Jimbob I need a sign.
Nice to meet ya Jimbob, I can help you with that.
What's the sign for? (this is where you listen closely)
I have a store front that needs my name on the windows.
No problem do you want something just plain or very nice. ( He will tell you if he's being cheap right here)
Plain.
Ok what are you wanting to say?
Jimbobs mower shop. ( you should have the layout in your head right now BLOCK well mayby a little script)
How big are your windows? (Jimbob can read a tape)
5' wide
Price him and get it overwith.

You can take charge a little better when you get your questioning consistant.
Jimbob isn't sure about what he needs so you can say are yo looking for a lit sign in the 3000 up range or panel signs like plywood or aluminum that are under 1000. He tells all right here. He says 1000 bucks for plywood? then you say depends on how fancy you want it but generally a 4x8 will range in the 400 -600 dollar mark on average but I do some very nice ones too.
He says I was thinking of something cheaper..... well anyways you know what to do from here.
You have simply qualified them at the same time you recieved your information.
I kinda had fun with that


Excellent OneSource! You nailed it on the head, and in only a matter of a handful of questions to the consumer. :cool1: I like your approach.


Sherry
rjssigns

[rjssigns]

Okay OneSource and anyone else who is following this thread. How do you handle the clients that just can't (or won't) come up to you price?

Do you keep giving them cheaper and cheaper options, which I prefer to stay clear of.

How do you decline their business tactfully?



Thanks again for your assistance.




Sherry
rjssigns

[Checkers]

Hey Sherry,
I'll try to be as flexible as possible with a potential client. However, one of the most important questions you need to ask is "how much are you willing to spend?"
If I can make what they want within their budget (profitably), great. If not, I'll let them tell me "no".

Checkers

[Jackpine]

I always ask if the have a budget. I then start the process of explaining the price range for the difference of layout and logo, size, quality and style for the there specific use. I try to steer them to a solution that would work and be effective for them. I am never surprised in their main interest of "how much", not "that will be effective for my business".

[Gino]

rjssigns….. one of the easiest things to do… is telling a customer that you probably can’t help them with their particular project. You’ve tried this approach and that approach and if they keep shooting you down [basically because of price], you simply tell them… perhaps you should try ‘ABC’ company at such and such streets. In fact, I’ll look up their phone number for you. If they don’t get the hint, they’ll at least be out of your shop soon and you never embarrassed them or yourself all the while you were still helping them although you couldn’t personally do it. Proceed to tell them… I know they do work more along the lines of what I think you might be searching for based on what I’m beginning to see from your comments. As they are leaving, tell them if they ever need high end work or custom work, [where we specialize] please give us another try. I’m sure we can help you on that. Be polite and tell them you must get back to work and bid them Goodbye.


Smother them with kindness.

If that doesn’t work…. hand them a piece of Coraplast and a magic marker and tell them to make it themselves if they’re so damn cheap. That will be $14.75 + tax. lol

[rjssigns]

rjssigns….. one of the easiest things to do… is telling a customer that you probably can’t help them with their particular project. You’ve tried this approach and that approach and if they keep shooting you down [basically because of price], you simply tell them… perhaps you should try ‘ABC’ company at such and such streets. In fact, I’ll look up their phone number for you. If they don’t get the hint, they’ll at least be out of your shop soon and you never embarrassed them or yourself all the while you were still helping them although you couldn’t personally do it. Proceed to tell them… I know they do work more along the lines of what I think you might be searching for based on what I’m beginning to see from your comments. As they are leaving, tell them if they ever need high end work or custom work, [where we specialize] please give us another try. I’m sure we can help you on that. Be polite and tell them you must get back to work and bid them Goodbye.


Smother them with kindness.

If that doesn’t work…. hand them a piece of Coraplast and a magic marker and tell them to make it themselves if they’re so damn cheap. That will be $14.75 + tax. lol


Gino that is just way too funny, and very good. Now that you mention it, I've seen it posted in this forum to send jobs you don't want to certain competitors. I like your approach on how to do just that.

And yes, if that fails, I'll hand them some 'Coraplast & Crayons'.

Good one.:thumb:

[onesource]

Stay firm
You can buya few bags of those sticker kits from walmart or somewhere and offer one of those to them. If they say no I want a more professional sign then you can talk again. :)

[Rich]

To quote Steven Parrish from an article by Mike Jackson in SignCraft Magazine. "Value is determined not by what you pay for something, but by what you get for what you pay."

[rjssigns]

I always ask if the have a budget. I then start the process of explaining the price range for the difference of layout and logo, size, quality and style for the there specific use. I try to steer them to a solution that would work and be effective for them. I am never surprised in their main interest of "how much", not "that will be effective for my business".


I like SignManiac's explanation of the three-tier pricing. It makes the economy signs more profitable.

Shown Below:



One very important way to sell a sign is to give the customer three different options. What's known as the three tiered pricing system. It's been used for many years and works very well. Let them choose what is affordable to them. I will offer them an economy option, a nicer custom option, and last a deluxe option. Most of the time they will chose the middle option. Funny thing, but people don't want to appear cheap and occasionally they will surprise you and chose the deluxe version. You can never be absolutely sure what they are thinking.
You are essentially steering them to where you want them to go which in most cases will be the middle option. When using this method of selling, the price difference between the first and last options can be a huge difference. If you have determined that the customer wants to do business with you then you are in a good position. What you would normally price an economy sign for can now be raised even higher to appear in line with the other two more expensive options. Should they choose the economy option you can make an excellent profit on that sign.
Let me give you an example. Let's say they are looking for 3' x 6' sign. Based on a square foot price you would sell the economy sign for approximately $10.00 to $15.00 a square foot. At least that is what I charge. That would give you a selling price of $180.00 to $270.00 an equivalent sign of the same size sandblasted based on a sq. ft. price of $50.00 to $75.00 would sell for $900.00 and $1,350.00 and the deluxe carved dimensional version at $100.00 to $125.00 a sq. ft. would go for $1,520.00 and $2,250.00. This is an extreme range of prices. You can now raise the price of your economy option to $450.00 and $600.00. This relates better to the other prices. This price works out to $25.00 and $33.00 per square foot. These are exceptionally good prices on a basic sign. Not that you can always get them but when you do, you smile all the way to the bank.



Sherry
rjssigns

[petepaz]

i like when the customer says
"what is this prep charge for, all you did was click some things on the computer screen"
no i created a file that doesn't look like the end of a lumberjack's saw blade,
adjusted the colors, and sent you a proof and then printed your job

[Jackpine]

"the three-tier pricing", I have used this for over 25 years. That is what I show customers.

[iSign]

nice job OneSource.
Sounds a lot like what I have learned to do over time, but I don't think I ever saw it written out.

That's good info!

[rjssigns]

CUSTOMer service is what sells custom SIGNS



Time for Templates! Boilerplates, or at the very least... "fewer options."


Face it, we're all providing 'custom' work in every detail. So oftentimes a job takes L...O...N...G....E...R to complete than anticipated. One reason being client's OCD 'spouse' being a sayer, rather than a doer, and muckin' up progress. There isn't a line on the estimate for 'time-wasters', but I'm seriously considering adding one.


Any suggestions on incorporating 'unforeseens' to the quotes during the qualifying and educating buyers phase ?????????

I'm probably not explaining this very well, but, well any interpretation / suggestions on this subject would be valuable.



Sherry
rjssigns

[Rick]

Interesting read and lots of great points....My simple explaination on my idea of it all is... To borrow a Gump-ism....

Custom is as Custom does.

[Rick]

On time wasters.....it helps to give them a "creative brief" to get the idea of what they want in writing....on a contract, you should specify on the scope of work what they are allowed to have....whether it is 3-6 concepts...1-3 revisions or whatever fits within the amount being billed....then it would be an additional charge (usually hourly) and most important, who is the point person on the job. If you get the idea that a spouse, uncle, nephew with a few design classes uder his belt will have a say...then charge more....

It is also a good idea to define "your" design process so they get the idea of how you work. Then they will not be too suprised when the add services letter is sent to them for added hours....

[rjssigns]

Interesting read and lots of great points....My simple explaination on my idea of it all is... To borrow a Gump-ism....

Custom is as Custom does.



You Got that right Rick, and now I AM Forrest! The tail is wagging the dog.


Isn't there an SOE (sequence of events) or SOP (standard operating procedure) for the production of custom orders?

Anything goes is Great come Creativity time, but the financial side doesn't much care for it.






Sherry
rjssigns

[Rick]

It really depends on the amounts of money you are talking about.....a small project usually has to condense the process so much, that it almost turns into a crap shoot when trying to get the design the customer intended or you lack the time to do the research to show the customer why you designed it the way you did.

I usually follow the following sequence (I think I posted this before).....note that the smaller the job, the more you need to take out....

From Wiki, check out "design process"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design

Taken from the books:
"Designing and Planning Environmental Graphics" by Wayne Hunt
"Architectural Signing and Graphics" by John Follis

[rjssigns]

Wow! No wonder I come to Signs101.com. Thanks for the suggestion. I am going to print off your checklist suggestion and add it to our Business Plan (SOE).

Thanks Very much Rick. :thumb:



Sherry
rjssigns