typical bad sign company

[pjfmeister]

I guess one stop does it all...

[collinssigns]

very creative :Sleeping:

[pjfmeister]

NOTE the "Computer Repair" on the windows....

[Fred Weiss]

The problem with your post is that it may be about someone who is a member here. :rolleyes:

[bob]

The problem with your post is that it may be about someone who is a member here. :rolleyes:

And that would make it passable because...?

[player]

It looks like he advertises exactly what he does...

P

[Fred Weiss]

And that would make it passable because...?

Never implied that. But it could make someone feel very badly and result in some angry posts. I understand that this is not of any concern to you but it is to me on a couple of levels.


As operator of this site, I don't think holding someone's work up to ridicule is appropriate or good for Signs 101. Especially when that person isn't even aware of the mockery.
As a member of the craft and as a human being, I leave some benefit of the doubt for others that what was shown may suit his or her taste and abilities just fine at this point in his or her life. It certainly isn't my place to point at that work and proclaim how bad and unworthy it is or the person that did the work is. Far more appropriate to focus on the quality of one's own work than to point out what may be wrong with that of someone else.

[wingman]

Well put Fred. When we start to sell ourselves, instead of trying to trash others at every opportunity, is when we will reach our real potential.:Canada 2:

[mondo]

I agree with Fred. I hate that when someone on the same industry bashed on others work. Its just too annoying.
If that how he wanted it let him be. For God's sake.

[PMG]

I agree that guys must be getting more work than the poster of the pic.......... he or she(RAPID SIGNS) must be feeling insecure of his own place in the industry to go that far!!!!:rolleyes:

[SignosaurusRex]

Hey now! That might be a picture of my very first truck. I don't remember for sure, but if its not it sure resembles it. But then it probably resembles alot of our (most of us) first trucks. Lets not forget our humble beginnings, Afterall, isn't that why we are here... to be helpful as well as helped?:wink:

[Shovelhead]

I guess one stop does it all...

you're a noobie...............

[Flame]

you're a noobie...............



And your point is WHAT?

[Sign_Boy]

Well said SignosaurusRex, well said

[Dave Drane]

If the price is right as some of our customers would say: IOAFS.

[gvgraphics]

If he likes it and it brings him work, so be it! Worry about your vehicle and your business and not theirs.

[CribIt]

And your point is WHAT?


Exactly, I've never understood the term.

[ghetto_cowboy]

All your base are belong to us

[Craig Sjoquist]

well said fred

13 folds

[Bogie]

But we can LEARN from it...

Do not put non-contrasting colors together.

ALL CAPS REALLY SUCKS.

Do not let the font fairy take over.

[iSign]

I agree that guys must be getting more work than the poster of the pic.......... he or she(RAPID SIGNS) must be feeling insecure of his own place in the industry to go that far!!!!:rolleyes:

now... if trashing some unknown vinyl cutting truck owner is not cool,

...how is it cool to be trashing pjfmeister, (or Rapid Signs) who actually signed up here & wants to be a respected fellow member?

Sure, I agree that Fred has an appropriate attitude to keep in mind here, but other then the off chance that someone who did that truck is, or will become a member... lets not stoop to a mob mentality & act like we would never diss on a worthless layout like that.

I mean really... as the moderator, Fred should inject some civility into these kinds of posts now and then, but now that he has, we still must admit we rip each other new ones on a daily basis for less offensive visual obscenities then that horrorshow... & all in the name of tough love to learn good design. IF the truck owner shows up, he can learn a lot here...

...but pjfmeister already showed up & I think he should know we are not a bunch or Freds jackles ready to shred him for his post.

Hell... it's no worse then posting the 20 worst signs we can find & choosing one for a makeover. And, it's certainly no worse then the ragging on everything from the London Olympics logo, to Comic sans that happens here daily.

Come on back & join the fun pjfmeister! He who has not sinned will cast the first flames :peace!:

[PMG]

yes you are correct Doug,i should haven't of said that! Thanks for opening my eyes and bringing me back down to earth!!!!! please forgive my rudeness pjfmeister !!!!!

[Ken]

Doug calls it a horror show.
Others say that, the multiple business concerns are an issue.
I agree that it causes the eye to bounce around all over the truck and there, may be the issue.
The main message is front and center , I think. VINYL GRAPHICS..loud and proud. In your opinion, what's the problem?
I would have allowed the company name and phone number to be unified.
Cheers!
Ken

[Bogie]

What is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING on just about any mobile sign?

Five or six years ago, it was probably the business name/logo.

Today, in the era of darn near everyone having a cell phone, it's the phone number. I've got a friend who runs a real estate business off his cell phone and his truck. He gets a LOT of calls while he's in traffic jams.

1) Drive politely.

2) Have your employees drive politely.

And have the phone number big enough to read, and don't screw around with the font... Saw one the other day that may have been "corrected." It was red, on a white truck, with a black shadow that made the numbers run together. No work.

[Bogie]

Just noticed the phone number.

I'll betcha the guy's at Lake of the Ozarks... Big resort kinda joint. Probably has a real shop, and runs all over the place doing Tacky Boats in the summer...

[cdiesel]

Well said, Doug. We post daily ripping each other's layouts apart, and often post pics of "ugly signs". Nothing new here.

[Ken]

I think WHAT you do is the most important thing on any sign.
Ego always seems to get in the way. Some of these realtors, OMG, you'd think they were the second coming "here's my smiling face..BTW..I sell real estate at exhorbitant commissions"
After WHAT comes WHO, then HOW, then WHERE.
Others may prioritize this differently. Curious about that.
Cheers!
Ken

[iSign]

Ken,
sorry, there are so many bad elements & they are so obvious to me that it seemed like it didn't require explanation, but I'd be happy to explain why I think what I think.

The red on black has low contrast.. AND the top line is in an arc ONLY because the vinyl jockey discovered his puter was able to do that... NO OTHER REASON!! ...unless of course the accidental consequence of leaving a big gaping hole of negative space in the very optical center of that message was actually intentional, regardless of the fact that it is a capital offense. The list of services on the back door are crooked, besides the fact that "Lettering" is closer to the margins then to the next line of copy (a design "no-no" in case you didn't know-know) Then the "logo" on the door has italic lettering... but wait, it's not "italic" it's custom computer edited for unique design personality... yeeccchhhh!!! the black, turns to red, while the overly sheared type suddenly stands up straight, leaving another unsightly gaping hole of negative space in another central focal point where it is least tolerable. "Even that "loud & proud" declaration of what he does... looks to me like he does it crooked, but this is a wierd angle, so if I'm wrong... then that is the best part, even though it's nothing to write home about... there is less to bitch about too... but the phone number probably should have been large, below Vinyl Graphics, or in place of the address, with the address gone, or below the phone.

Even my gripe with the phone number is personal taste... but if I had a client wanting the phone number there, I'd have had other large copy lined up on both doors & the bed... all lined up nice in exactly the same cap height and font, with no distortion... then the bullet points could have run in one line below it.

Hey. lets do a makeover on this bad boy... (mines half done in my mind anyway :Big Laugh )

anyway, I'm not the final authority by any means... but I am opinionated... so I'll put my thoughts on the line & may need to be corrected myself, which is why I'm here too. :thumb:

[Ken]

Thanks iSign, many good observations. IN a word...incoherent design.
I just wanted to hear where others felt this was distasteful.
Cheers!
Ken

[Rich]

I would suggest to anyone who is thinking of entering the sign and graphics business to
.......READ and STUDY ALL YOU CAN ABOUT DESIGN.......

Perhaps start off with a copy of Mike Stevens Mastering Layout!

There is a lot of compitition in this trade nowadays so why not have your work a notch above the rest?

[myronb]

All your base are belong to us


I agree!!!






:help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help:

[TLT692]

Rule # 1
Is the customer happy? If so then you get paid.

In this case the customer must be happy because they did the work.

The rest of the rules don't matter if rule # 1 is not met. So you guys need to get over being a bunch of pompus a@##@# and come back to earth.

On this forum I see a group who have a world of knowledge to share but they seem to be more at home with critisizing than educating. Even the posts that give solutions have an edge that makes them a lot less helpful and more towards hurtful.

Perhaps we all need to remember that not everyone likes caviar, some people like scrambled eggs. Not everybody hates all caps,I don't care for it but I have had customers request it that way and when they pay the bill I will give them what they want not what I want. I will make suggestions but it is not my sign it's theirs.

So on the truck, does it meet rule # 1 yes. Wold I buy it no. But I probably wouldn't buy a lot of things you guys do either so give the guy a break.

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

TLT692,

I had no intention of posting to this thread until I read your post.

For starters, by definition but not your intentions, we all are a bunch of pompous asses. We ARE elevated above the rest, as you even point out that there is a "world of knowledge" here. What you term as hurtful criticism is in actuality CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and NEVER intended to hurt anybody.

I would sincerely hope that whoever owns that company truck would do as Ken did and ASK what is wrong with it - where he will get a response similar to Doug's explanation.

Not everybody hates all caps

There is a place and a reason for ALL elements of design. These are not just made up as we go - these are actual rules that have been scientifically tested and proven. Typography is a learned art that dates back for centuries.

Lastly, the caviar and scrambled eggs was bad example. Caviar is not a breakfast item, and scrambled eggs are never served as an h'orderve. This example would receive the same response if this were a forum for caterers.

The majority of us here DO have our feet firmly planted on the ground and take what we do seriously. Fortunately, in the USA, you are free to choose your own path and beliefs.

[bob]

...deletia...Perhaps we all need to remember that not everyone likes caviar, some people like scrambled eggs. Not everybody hates all caps,I don't care for it but I have had customers request it that way and when they pay the bill I will give them what they want not what I want. I will make suggestions but it is not my sign it's theirs.

Sophomoric nonsense. There are principles and rules for color, layout, and typography that have nothing to do with personal taste. Violate them and, unless you're exceedingly clever which you're not, you have incomprehensible visual chaos.

Since obscure analogies seem to be part of your scene, its much like music. In music there are rules as to what notes make a chord and what chords make a progression in whatever key. The rules allow for infinite variation but the remain the rules. Follow them and you'll have music. Break them and you'll have noise.

The work you rationalize as acceptable via some sort of personal preference violates every principle in which it comes in contact. That it might be what the proprietor wants does not excuse it. Do you figure a cosmetic surgeon would or should agree to graft a patient's johnson onto the end of the patient's nose because that's what the patient wants?

[Bogie]

As long as there are no marmots involved or injured, and the rug is left to tie the room together...

I hate all caps, unless there's a darn good reason to use 'em.

Most of the "rules" are really just based upon scientific study of perception and learning.

We don't "read" words letter by letter. We recognize word shapes. That's why all caps slows reading down. You actually have to "read" the stuff to read it. Then there's contrast, the color spectrum, optical centers, white space... You name it. There's a REASON for it. There. I used all caps. But legitmately.

[Flame]

Funny the way this thread is going.

I love all caps, on certain fonts. Bold fonts like Impact and Compacta, sure. But used in the proper sense. A bunch of words in all caps... bleck. One word in a logo, sure. Now using all caps in a script.... YUCK. Sometimes can get away with it in a casual, but not always.

Basically, there ARE rules. They can be bent, but rarely broken. It takes a master of these rules to pull off breaking them. There's a reason yellow text shouldn't go on a white magnet, there's a reason black text should not go on a maroon sign, there's a reason comic sans shouldn't (well, for one... be used at all) be put around a circle. It just looks UGLY.

I'm not master graphic artist, but I believe I'm improving, and it started as soon as I recognized that I wasn't a master.











Oh, and yeah that truck is kinda ugly. Looks like a noob job, but hey, atleast the letters look straight! My first designs were about like that though...

[THATgirl]

There are very few really great sign artists in my opinion. And like some have said, we all have our opinions and taste. I think rules are meant to be broken! Some of the so called graphic designers make horrible looking signs a lot of times.. yet they follow the 'rules' so they must be right? (no.) Sure this sign truck could use some improvement.....but how many times have you relettered your work truck? It's fun to change looks. Maybe they are working on a new design? Also...in my opinion, some of the people who freely give advice here are really not any better. We are all different.

[wingman]

I'm not master graphic artist, but I believe I'm improving, and it started as soon as I recognized that I wasn't a master.
There are definetly some (master graphic artists/designers) on this site. As the above quote states, improvement is why we are here (especially me). As I have come to learn over the years, constructive criticism is extremely useful in the growth of one's knowledge. :Canada 2:

[Urban Image]

There is nothing wrong with criticism in its basic nature. If I were to say to the person that did the lettering for the truck, "This is crap; you need to redo it". it would not be appropriate. Not because it isn't polite (We're all adults, right?) but simply because it offers nothing beyond judgement. Criticism should judge but should also come with reasons and is much more valueable if it offers suggestions for improvement.

That said, again, we are all adults and can recognize pointless and hollow criticism and dismiss it without wetting our pillows.

[Replicator]

All Valid Points . . . Maybe Their Next Truck Will Improve !

[bob]

There are very few really great sign artists in my opinion. And like some have said, we all have our opinions and taste. I think rules are meant to be broken! Some of the so called graphic designers make horrible looking signs a lot of times.. yet they follow the 'rules' so they must be right? (no.)

Following the rules does not assure acceptable work but breaking them assures unacceptable work. If merely following the rules was all that's necessary anyone who could play notes on an instrument would be making music. Hardly.

The childish notion that 'rules are meant to be broken' [other than as an obscure philosophical argument] is often used as an attempt at justifying perfidious behavior. It's as ridiculous a position as the equally inane 'He made me do it'.

The 'rules' referred to here are not edicts of the 'Thou shalt not do this, that or the other thing' sort. Rather they are guidelines to an infinite number pf paths. Rules of the nature of 'If you do this, then you really can't do that. If you wanted to do that, then you should have done this'. They deal with harmony vice discord.

[Gino]

Holy Toledo bob…..

You must be on some new meds that are really kickin’ in……

You really made a lot of sense two posts in a row… and for a change I think everyone can understand them.


thanks……… :wink:

[THATgirl]

I have seen some people break many rules in signmaking and come out with great looking signs. And I have seen people continuously follow the 'rules' and their signs are so boring they are barely noticable.
And bob dear, after you are done looking up your big words, why don't you take your dictionary and whack yourself a few times. Using big words is often an attempt at making one appear more intelligent or above others. Which in your particular case has proven to be a disaster. Oh sure, you might be right once in awhile, and entertaining a couple times, but most of the time you just come across as a pompous ass without giving any positive feedback. I think most people trip over your words. No not because they are less intelligent than you...they just merely don't give a rats ass as you seem to have some inner turmoil inside that you are attempting to deal with. As far as childish notions...lighten up bob! Have some fun....it's fun to break the sign rules. Hell it's fun to act like a kid too. Try it....you might like it. Now excuse me while I go jump on my trampoline after I am done with my otter pop.

[rjssigns]

I wasn't going to post to this thread either, but apparently it's going Everywhere. I couldn't resist.

Regarding comments by TLT692 below:

TLT692Rule # 1
Is the customer happy? If so then you get paid.

In this case the customer must be happy because they did the work.
__________________________________________________ _____________


So getting back to the Original Post, if I were a Vinyl Graphics Buyer wanting to get the cheapest Possible price, I would consider utilizing this company's services. If I were a Vinyl Graphics Buyer wanting a strategic marketing approach (or more specifically . . .to increase SALES), I would shy away from this company. Thus the term you reap what you sow.

Unfortunately it's images such as this that cheapen the persona of Vinyl Graphics companies. Although, they are making it Easier for their competitors to Attract the higher paying, more Serious sign buyers.

Nevermind proper design, in my Opinion more than anything their Company truck appears Morphed. Two, count them, two Businesses in One! A bargain at twice the Price. :thumb:


Moral of the Story: What do you need to do today to get where you want to be in Five Years? For this Company, this may be it!

. . . now let me see five years from now I'll have ----, so today I will have to call six banks, finish video brochure, finish trailer wrap projects, fine-tune newest RIP software . .oh, Gotta go!

Have a Great Day!
Sherry
rjssigns.com

"We more readily accept opinions that validate our own opinions."

[Fred Weiss]

Well I see room for both the folks that just want to make a living and those that want to grow something bigger than that. Back when I did nothing but wholesale vinyls for other sign companies, we had a client named Jack's Sign Service and Sewing Machine Repair. He was a nice enough guy known for his honesty, ability and plain, vanilla approach to life. He did his share of signs and fixed his share of sewing machines. He never got big and never cared to do so.

I'm all for being all that you can be ... or that you want to be. I'm sure that Jack didn't have a lot of big, image conscious clients. But he found his level and served it well without being a lowballer.

[mark in tx]

Should have posted it originally in logos and design, and ask the community how it could be improved as a learning experience for us all.

Snark begets snark.

[rjssigns]

Hey Fred, that reminds me of a quote from
Don Johnson's movie "The Hot Spot." (1990)

"I found my level and I'm livin' it."
___________________________

For some, that's a Good thing.

For the rest . . . :help:




Sherry
rjssigns
___________________________

"We more readily accept opinions that validate our own opinions."

[Fred Weiss]

Hey Fred, that reminds me of a quote from
Don Johnson's movie "The Hot Spot." (1990)

"I found my level and I'm livin' it."
___________________________

For some, that's a Good thing.

For the rest . . . :help:




Sherry
rjssigns
___________________________

"We more readily accept opinions that validate our own opinions."






or as the dog said to Don Johnson in the final scene of the movie A Boy and His Dog:

I wouldn't say she had good taste ... but she sure did taste good.
(You have to have seen the movie to appreciate the quote.)

http://www.allcompu.com/myicons/dog42.gif

:Oops: Does that make me a :thread :help:

[threeputt]

Gee, where's this thread going? At any rate I am hopeful that most of the members are here for one of two things. Get information and/or impart information. Not find a dog to kick!

Secondly, while it's useful to read books on layout and design, (I've got a stack of 'em) it's also good to simply stare at good signs. And don't just nod your head and say, "man, that's good!", and turn the page. But rather really look at the sign. Ask yourself WHY is this sign so effective? By forcing oneself to, yes I'll use the word, analyze the sign you can get learn principles of layout and design.

Finally, I don't think Bob is a "pompous **s" as some of you seem to believe. I find his stuff interesting. He does not use "big words" just to be using them. Don't denigrate that which you don't/can't understand. Leave room (allow for) the possibility that you don't know everything. None of us do. There are some persons in this trade that I've conversed with that are clearly educated. They stand out. And I guess, sometimes they're ridiculed.

[Flame]

Only people I've seen use words in the matter as Bob are:

a. College geeks the drive a scooter and live with their grandma

b. Kids in 7th grade who are trying to be cool, but end up living with their grandma later in life

c. bob




:Big Laugh :Big Laugh :Big Laugh :Big Laugh


Sorry Bob.:wink: :thumb:

[Pro Image]

:Oops: Does that make me a :thread :help:



YEP!!!!!............:Cool 2:

[threeputt]

There seems to be a definite bias against educated and rich, or at least, well-off people on this forum. I've seen it since the first day I became a member. I really don't understand it. Aren't we all, by nature, trying to excel? Isn't excelling a good thing? Both of these areas usually mean a person has done this.

[threeputt]

Oh..and Flame, if you were to visit my shop (I know you're close by and this ISN'T an invitation) you'd see that I'm not living with my grandma and I don't drive a scooter. Your posts make you sound like you're reverting to the sixth grade.

[iSign]

Threeputt, I've never seen that bias!

I thought I did a lot of looking around here.... and I thought I did a lot of "seeing" around here too...


so am I missing something... or could you be seeing things that aren't there?

[threeputt]

Island, as you know, we all perceive things differently because we have differing filters. (Context 101)

[TLT692]

Pro Signs. Guess what your knowledge elevates you above no one. The "we are elevated above" concept is why I have a problem with the critisism, "Looks Like A Horror Show" is constructive in what way?? We all have knowledge and all want to share it the difference is in how we do it. To put someone down does nothing to build them up. Maya Angelou has said someting to the effect "We did the best we knew how, when we knew better we did better" . To blatantly critcise someone like was done in this thread is not to help someone know better, but it is a way to make the ELEVATED feel superior.

The next time your computer leaves you high and dry in the middle of feeling elevated while making a sign you may want to remember the guys phone # on the truck. Or the next time your toilet won't flush or your car wont start see if you still feel above the guy that gets you working again. I make it a point to never let myself feel above anyone in any way because you never know what they know or don't know. I also make a point of never letting anyone make me feel like they are above me.

If you ever have a chance to go to a Moravian cemetary you will see they bury their dead by the day they died, not in family plots. They believe that no matter who you were in life we are all equals in death. Wouldn't it be great if that was the view in life as well? Then there wouldn't be such a thing as "constructive critisism" there would only be "Let me help you make that a little better".

[threeputt]

TLT, I'm going to have to look into this Moravian thing. They may have something there.

[TLT692]

One of the oldest ones in the US is in Old Salem, NC. Be sure to buy some of the cookies to they are awesome.

[Sign_Boy]

I think my head just exploded...

This thread has a lot to chew on.

[craigco]

:beer HOLY MOLY!!!!

Philosophy 104 and Design -101. Too funny. You know what they say about opinions!

I'll add some philosophy - It's all a joke and the joke is on you!

Craig

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

TLT,

Now this is starting to sound like the childish phrase "I know I am but what are you?'

Listen to yourself! You were the first to call us pompous asses. Am I at fault for agreeing with you? I think not. The fact remains that the majority of the participants are proud of what we do, and the industry in which we participate. IT IS that pride that has made us practice our craft to the degree that we ARE elevated above most. Nothing more - nothing less.

You are typical of those that incite riots, only to disappear when the shit hits the fan, and worse later claim "I never said that" (in a whining tone)! If I say I stand by it. If I am wrong, I admit it and apologize. In this case there is no retreat, nor apology, for my words and/or actions!

To be clear, as much as I am a proud bastard, I am still humble enough to know that a good many here possess talents that I can only dream of. Where you fall, up or down on the list, remains to be seen. Nevertheless I am proud of what I do.

As far as dishing out criticism towards the original topic, I did not because it was completely unnecessary. The faults were pointed out with ample explanation. I DID however criticize you defense of ignorance to known facts and procedures, and I STILL stand by my position.

As for my computers - give it up. While I do not write code, I DO quite well on my own, all while running equipment that scares the shit out of most people. I not only do well at it, I have been doing it for the last 16 years. Had I even seen that gentleman's truck (even not knowing anything about layout) there would be no way in hell that I would even consider he had the ability to work on my machines. It looks that bad. Chances are that you cannot even work on my machines, as only about 10% of the self-proclaimed computer do (but I admit that I have no basis to stand on that, and that it comes from experience.)

Lastly, do NOT try and inject civil rights, religion, and entitlement into a conversation with me. To begin with, all three contradict each other but this is not the proper forum for a conversation such as that - nor will it ever be.

Not only am I a pompous ass (your words, remember?), I also personally lay claim to being one of the biggest ass***s around here! I also wear that crown with pride! (I guess you could say that is more pompous bullshit :Big Laugh )

I think that the air you are breathing just maybe getting a little thin. Go to the beach and inhale as much as you can.

[iSign]

...I have a problem with the critisism, "Looks Like A Horror Show" is constructive in what way??
...To blatantly critcise someone like was done in this thread is not to help someone know better, but it is a way to make the ELEVATED feel superior.


I'm sorry about your problem... :cool: maybe I can help:
c·r·i·t·i·c·i·s·m [krit-uh-siz-uhm] –noun

but, back on topic... when you say "someone" who are you referring to?
I can't speak for others, but as the individual laying claim to this threads use of the phrase "Horror Show" ...there is no "someone" here that I was referring to. You may in fact look like a horrorshow too, for all I know... but in context, the criticism you tried to quote was about design, not about "someone" :rolleyes:

Let's look at the facts. Actually nobody said "Looks Like A Horror Show" but what I did say was more a defense of the original poster, & his decision to share a good example of poor layout. We can learn from seeing poor layout, & recognizing it as such. Besides, before taking it out of context, the actual sentence went on to include reference to your noble & altruistic concept "to help someone know better" ...or constructive criticism.


we still must admit we rip each other new ones on a daily basis for less offensive visual obscenities then that horrorshow... & all in the name of tough love to learn good design. IF the truck owner shows up, he can learn a lot here...
...yep, all about learning and seeing others learn here. Just without the guilt tripping & righteousness! :wink:

I make it a point to never let myself feel above anyone in any way because you never know what they know or don't know. I also make a point of never letting anyone make me feel like they are above me.

...you are discussing how you and others might "feel" and bragging on the superior intellectual control with which these feelings are or are not allowed?
Actually, in my opinion, they aren't really "feelings" if they are under such rigid dogmatic controls, but you go ahead and "feel" however you've decided to allow yourself to feel. Pardon me if I choose feel like an emotional variable bobbing around like a cork on the vast unpredictable seas of diversity.

[Bogie]

Had I even seen that gentleman's truck (even not knowing anything about layout) there would be no way in hell that I would even consider he had the ability to work on my machines.


Hoss, it ain't the machines. It's the operators.

(Last time I wrote code it was for a Z80...)

Design? You wouldn't believe the crap that I've seen secretary-types churn out with perfectly good $1,200 software packages... All those pretty colors...

And lemme tell you about management types...

By golly, they're gonna use EVERY feature the software has. And every font. And every variation...

Bubba Truck's boat sign company likely ain't the world's most artistic, or even craftsmanlike, but he probably makes a bit from boat numbers, and the misc. tourist trap job. Because that appears to be where he's located. And he also appears as if he's going after the business.

Heck, a bad sign is usually better than no sign.

Past few weeks I've been "noticing" vehicle signs more. I think that the red/black is the most common ill-conceived combination.

[Holeshotrob]

Ummmmmm....WOW!!!

[JimJenson]

Wow, seems like this poor guy is being ripped apart, and he isn't even here to defend himself. Unfair... Maybe someone should give him a call and invite him to join the dialogue. His telephone number is on the truck in the picture.

[Pat Whatley]

Probably too busy making money to have time spend all day goofing off in here.

[cdiesel]

Secondly, while it's useful to read books on layout and design, (I've got a stack of 'em) it's also good to simply stare at good signs. And don't just nod your head and say, "man, that's good!", and turn the page. But rather really look at the sign. Ask yourself WHY is this sign so effective? By forcing oneself to, yes I'll use the word, analyze the sign you can get learn principles of layout and design.


Good point, threeputt. It's equally helpful to look at BAD signs and see what doesn't work, and why they're not effective.

[creative]

Criticism, positive or negative only make us be better at what we do.

some ugly sign is the very best for others, what if his 10 year old design the lettering for him.

We just need to be open to others ideas and point of view.

I guess...

[onesource]

I say everyone is wasting time on this issue, go make some signs and don't worry about this.
I'm through working today so I had a little time to kill:)

[Flame]

I was just joking around. Notice the smileys...??? It's called teasing. Op and Bob are fun to tease.:wink:

I think everyone needs to lighten up. Taking this stuff too seriously...

[Bogie]

Suggestion:

Gitcherself a small digital camera. Doesn't have to be the world's greatest resolution, etc., but needs to be small.

Stick it in your shirt pocket.

When you see a sign/image/design you like, take a picture.

When you see something Really Bad, take a picture.

Every so often, add 'em to a coupla powerpoints... If you need ideas for something, go to the "good" powerpoint, and start leafing through until you see something you can "steal."

If you need to explain to a client how something won't work, whip out the bad stuff... Usually showing works a lot better than telling.

[iSign]

Usually showing works a lot better than telling.

I had a guy wanting a yellow outline on his reflex blue lettering for his white van, which I will be doing for him, but on the second side he has a window, so on the window I wanted to just use yellow text & maybe put a reflex blue outline on one line for him.

He walked in to check the status, just as my new hire was being shown how to help me prepare the photo proof on his van pics. We had just copied the text block from the white side on to the window side and when we decided to show him our progress so he could comment, and then leave. He saw the unintended blue with yellow outline on the window & wanted his other three lines of yellow text done that way also.

I had been interrupted by a phone call & returned to see the screen zoomed in on this black window with 4 lines of reflex copy & a yellow outline. The client said "I'd like it like that"

I said, you really wouldn't like it & I'll show you why. I took an isolated screenshot of just that window, then fixed his window to my intended 3 lines of straight yellow, & one yellow heading with a reflex outline.
Then I pasted the screenshot right on top of the fix. I quickly masked out the rest of the distraction on the page & zoomed out a little to represent standing back from the van.

Like Bogie says... it's hard to argue with illegability when you literally can not read your own color scheme, and the professional advice you wanted to ignore is the same size right there next to it, speaking loud and clear.

This also illustrates why I never design in front of the client anymore... but the unexpected status checking client, combined with my phone call & my new guy's newness... I got a reminder of why I learned that lesson so long ago.

[kgirl]

You would not want your signs done by that man