Arlon vs. Oracal

[Mac34]

Hi!,
Just had a quick question about choosing vinyl. I've been using Arlon for about 10yrs. now, and have never had a real issue with it. The only thing I've been unhappy with is how hard it is to weed (it almost seems a little "gummy"?) and that the metallics do not seem to hold their metallic look for very long (almost turn a weird grey color, and lose the metallic flakes?). I've been using Oracal 651 for a long time now, and have been pretty happy with it. It is a fair priced film, that weeds pretty well, and the colors are great! I've been trying to buy in bulk, but with this comes that initial sting. My local supplier has been getting up around the $225.00 to $250.00 range for Arlon H.P. Paying in the high $50's for colored H.P., and in the high $80's for the Metallics (I'm not overly happy with anyway). I was wondering what you all used for High Performance films, and if there were any you would strongly recommend? (I would truly like to get a strong 5-6 years out of most projects). I'm sure that 651 could get me by, but for most of my work I prefer to offer H.P. films. Thanks in advance! -Mac

[Checkers]

My choices in order...
3M, including Gerber and Gregory,
Arlon
Anything else
Shelf liner/contact paper
Avery - Actually, avery shouldn't be on the list. I just won't buy it.

Checkers

[animenick65]

I don't much care for arlon films. Their calendered colors stink and always leave residue behind. Thier HP films are better. The colors are more vibrant. I agree with you on the metallics.

[Pro Image]

Oracal and 3M.........

[chopper]

I use the oracal 751 series high performance films they weed great.
I just did a job and used the arlon hp film and it realy dose suck to weed compared to the oracal, just go up a notch with the film from 651 to 751
the only difference is there are a few color changes //chopper

[ColorDoctor]

3M, Arlon...Avery if desperate. That's all my supplier carries, wholesaler. But interestingly enough I've noticed a decidedly marked decrease in the quality of the initial product production across the board. By that I mean alot of films run out with 'dry' 'dull' looking sections. Especially on the metallics. Usually to one edge. I do alot of 60's 70's retro rally stripe kits for new car dealerships and they are very finicky. That sort of poor film quality really shows up on the dealer showrooms. The worst was a black heavy metalflake look in the Avery line-the whole ten yard roll looked like it had been through a 100 car washes. Could pass outside but not indoors-HUGE project loss. Another thing that seems to show up from initial production are 'roller' marks every 3 feet or so-kind of like a lightly scratched strip about an inch wide that spans the width of the film-very annoying!! Maybe I'm just lucky gettin' the....'good'....stuff.....?? :Big Laugh

[k.a.s.]

I usally look to Oracal first because of the lenth of time I have had success with it, another quality film that does not get mentioned much is Accucut. I have used this with good success as well.

Kevin

[iSign]

15 loyal years with 2 mil Arlon high performance.
ALWAY'S weeds fine for me... not sure what others problems are.

I'm not a big fan of Arlons 3 mil intermediate though, & stock oracal 651 for that. Always inferior weeding to the Arlon though.

[animenick65]

Arlons intermediate is pretty crappy. Unfortunatly we use it. Its that or avery. Our shop manager doesn't like to use HP unless its aboslutley necessary so we get to use crap on everything. I hear great stories of oracal and wish we could switch. Have not issues with Arlon HP though. I think it performs pretty decent.

[Bill Modzel]

Arlon High Preformance for 95% of my jobs. Been using it longer than Doug and it's not let me down. Oracal 651 for intermediate jobs, mostly coro.

[OldPaint]

try some SHINE RITE from FELLERS.... all i use now

[ColorDoctor]

.....elaborate please....Shine Rite.......all I see is shoe polish products.....WHAT!???????????? whoooose 'Fellers'???

[Dave Drane]

:wink: No comparison.. Arlon HP leaves Oracal in the shade!!:wink:

[OldPaint]

.....elaborate please....Shine Rite.......all I see is shoe polish products.....WHAT!???????????? whoooose 'Fellers'???
WHAT PART OF U.S.A. YOU IN???????????
http://www.fellers.com how easy was that???????????????

[ColorDoctor]

T H A N X.........but if you just put the word 'Fellers' versus 'Fellers sign' in google....see what you get....weird.. good thing cuz I really don't want to shine my shoes......! Time for alot more.....:Coffee:

[Flame]

oracal all the way. Almost all I use. I try to stock:

651
751
3651
3561
3165
3620
3551RA
3951RA
3640
200 lam
210 lam
290 lam



I LOVE Oracal.

[ColorDoctor]

To be......

or not to be.........

I don't care, I just am



Ya know Flame Master.....That by far is the best thing I've read YET!!! But re Oracal. Got their charts over 10 years ago-very impressive-tons of varieties. But like I previously mentioned my supplier doesn't carry them nor are they going to. Have to say their transparent selection is outstanding!! Flame on Brother......!!!!!!!!!!! :thumb:

[Flame]

Thanks dude.

Might want to keep a weather eye out for a new supplier, or atleast for material. I have 3=4 suppliers I get stuff from, and between the 4 of them, I can just about anything.

I get my Oracal from Pacific Coast Sign Supply, but I know Sign Warehouse carries it too. Bought from both of them, been happy with both, but have gotten to know the Pacific Coast guys pretty well lately and they're only 40 minutes away from me.

[danger]

use it on every thing

[Mac34]

Still a little on the fence I guess? Where I've been using Arlon for 10 years now, it is nice when a past customer comes in, and I have the color right there. On the other hand, I'm having an issue with two things with Arlon:

1). I'll constantly adjust pressure, blade height, you name it, and no matter what, it just seems like I can't get the stuff to weed right? I'll go to weed it, and it will fight me all the way, plus there is the occasional string of adhesive, showing me that I'm not getting all the way through. I'll adjust it ever so slightly more, and now when I go to pull back the decal, I've cut into the backing paper, and now that is stuck to the bottom of the lettering. No matter what, it seems like I can't win?! (ESPECIALLY with Silver Metallic!!). I wish it were 100% MY fault, but I have no problem at all with the 651 I use?

2). PRICE. I don't mind spending a few bucks extra for a better product, but my local supplier's 10yd. price on it is around $56.50 for 24" (colors). Buying a whole 50yd. roll I may save a few bucks, but I'm pretty sure its still over $225.00 a roll. Looking in my Feller's catalog, I see you can buy a roll of 751 Oracal for much less. Yes, it is rated for less time, but it is still good for 8 years?!

I would just like to find a durable, easy weeding vinyl at a fair price. I have been a little happier with Oracal's consistancy. It seems that sometimes I'll get a roll of Arlon, and their is a bunch of pock marks in it? Not that I'm trying to digital print with it, but a smooth surface definately is nicer looking :) If I DO switch, I would like to use Oracal's best. Is 751 their best, or is their an 851 or 951? Any suppliers you suggest? (I've been using Feller's, and they are A+ in my book!). Thanks again for everyone's help!

P.S. Have fun in Loudon Steve! Wear your helmet!... not that its protecting anything (LOL!) :)

[Kysparky]

I have bee reading this thread and I have yet to see anyone mention General Formulations brand. I find it to be the easiest of any of them to weed and they have a lot of differnt colors. sign Supply store its called GT 1 Earl Mich it's called EM500. Try it sometime.:beer
Mac Tac isn't to bad either.

[ColorDoctor]

interesting thread.....have had a Graphtec 90A for over 10 years and I can adjust it for any thickness of film..the sucker is bullet proof...but I always do a test first...... I did run across a Gerber plotter which had a considerable wear spot as a result the blade cut right through the vinyl and backing-all around a bad moment to be sure!! If you can adjust and test, usually that saves alot of headache.....:thumb:

[Marlene]

Doesn't Shine Rite sells for about $4.00 a roll? If you're putting out cheap crap at a flea market, that stuff would be proper. If it's for a garage sale sign or something else that's going to be used for the weekend, I guess it would be OK.

[Mac34]

interesting thread.....have had a Graphtec 90A for over 10 years and I can adjust it for any thickness of film..the sucker is bullet proof...but I always do a test first...... I did run across a Gerber plotter which had a considerable wear spot as a result the blade cut right through the vinyl and backing-all around a bad moment to be sure!! If you can adjust and test, usually that saves alot of headache.....:thumb:


Ultimately, I'm sure my problem could be operator error :) But... it seems that I have to struggle with the Arlon much more than other films I've tried, to get that exact perfect cut depth? I've had a GRC-60, a Graphtec FC5100, and now I'm on my Summa T. No matter what, I seem to have a problem cutting all the way through the adhesive (which ends up pulling these little snotty lines of adhesive when I weed) or, if I adjust the depth ever so slightly, I cut just enough into the backing paper where it will tear when I go to pull back the application tape when getting ready to apply the decal? I definately know what you are saying though about doing a cut test first. I usually try to, especially with the Silver Metallic. I just seem to have a little better luck weeding the Oracal I guess? It just seems less gummy? Maybe I'm answering my own question as to which brand I should go with? (LOL!). I've been so used to Arlon though, and it does hold up quite well (except that Silver of course). I don't want to lose the durability, but I could use a better weeding, slightly less expensive film. Do they make Oracal 851, or 751 their highest?