NEW TAXES or SOMETHING

[Gino]

Not sure where to post this, but here goes............

I would like to know if anyone else has ever heard of this.

The picture below is a job I finished this morning. I, personally did the whole thing. While talking to my customer he was telling me about a law that I’ve never heard of in 36 years of doing business.

As you can see, the name is mentioned on three windows and once above, on the roof.

The permit fee was $100.00 per application. That’s $400.00 for the four signs.

Well, that’s just plain expensive and I can’t help that, but then he informed me that this particular borough has recently passed a law that requires a fee of $70.00 per year for each sign they paid a permit to have installed. That's an additional $280.00 each and every year for the right to post their signs... temporary or permanent.

Is this currently required or done anywhere else in the continental US of A ??

Does anyone know who I could talk to or contact to see if this is even legal ??

This will eliminate how many signs people get in the future in this borough, but what I’m more afraid of is… if this kind of action starts to spread !!


Please, I don’t care about layout, colors or anything about the signs. They’re up and I already got paid…. this is more for the legal impact this borough has on the sign industry. It doesn’t sound legal of fair to be taxed on the signs you have on your property. How about large stores or malls… how will they ever pay these PENALTIES as I see them ??

Any ideas or input will be much appreciated………….thanks…….
Gino

[Replicator]

Never heard of such a ridiculous law . . . but that building is really cool !

[imaSIGNr]

We have a permit fee that is a flat rate accordingly to the size business you fall into, and it's a one time fee.

Could this issue possibly be special circumstances having to do with it maybe not being zoned commercial, therefore they must pay an annually high rate to do business there ?

[dswanson]

well I have heard of something sort of the same there are some cities that have a annual fee for sidewalk signs, 3 month fee for outside banners.

[Pro Image]

It is up to each localty to pass their own laws.............I think the law was made to keep the amount of signage down in the area.........

You live in a town you go by their rules.................sorry........

[Billct2]

I know billboards have a similar rule around here.
Sounds like a way to increases taxes on the backs of businesses.

[John L]

I'd start by getting a copy of the sign and zoning ordinace and read it carefully. The ordinance should tell you...

What they call a sign. (very important, cause I see 1 sign and some window lettering, but they might not look at it that way, you goot read what they say)
What square footage is allowed.
Exceptions and the exception process.
And all the other details.

This is a tricky business we are in. It's real tough to keep balance between customer, municipality, and actually make some money.

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

We have heard of it before. Basically it is a local tax for the privilege of advertising the business. It is not currently in practice in Florida, but with the looming tax cut that has been proposed, I think will may see it pop up here.

[Rich]

I beleive in practical sign restrictions otherwise many cities and towns would have a "Vegas" look to them!

I know many cities and towns are at times "hard pressed" to meet budgets but come on now! Hell, the permit fees alone were way too much!

By the way....nice looking old Victorian.

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

For the life of me, I cannot remember where it was (yet), but actually it made things better in regards to restrictions. The general permitting fees were lowered, and some of the "quantity/size limitations" were relaxed. What I do not know is of there were any design reviews required.

One of the sign orgs has this information - just need to remember which one.

[Gino]

I didn't read the ordinance yet, but I intend to.

The owner of the windows and sign we did in that picture told me... anywhere or anytime your business name is shown will account for a $100.00 permit and an annual $70.00 charge. It applies to any surface being lettered, but as long as it is part of a building or attached to the building in some fashion. However, if you have a free standing sign, that will also apply. At this point, the only thing that doesn't fall into this category is a vehicle, website or phonebook ad.

This would include banners, signs [electric or not], sandblasted, windows, awnings, neon, channels.... even if a parking sign has your name on it.

I did talk to a cop today.... we're lettering a bunch of this borough's cop cars, and he said the ordinance has been in effect for almost 5 years, but only recently have they been enforcing it. He also said there are a lot of upset people, but hey, what are you gonna do.... It's the Law.... Now !!

[gnemmas]

Time to chat with USSC attorney if this ordinance is in effect as stated. It might involve with commercial free speech issue here. There are plenty of cases where stupid ordinances passed and overturned by court.

[FatCat]

By the looks of that building I would almost say it might be located in a historic district. If so, the laws are usually much stricter in locations like that.

[imaSIGNr]

By the looks of that building I would almost say it might be located in a historic district. If so, the laws are usually much stricter in locations like that.
This is along the lines of what I was trying to say.....

[Gino]

Ha.... when you're on the East Coast.... everything becomes historic..... just look at Ol' Paint.............

No, really... everything is considered historic this and that around here. I live on the 'Daniel Boone Homestead'. One of his descendants still lives up the road from me. Lincoln’s mother or grandmother was from our area. The towns and cities around here are all over 200 years old, so everything has become historic, but that is not the reasoning here from what I’m told so far. Historic areas are one thing, but taxing people over and over again on the same thing is totally unrealistic and needs to be cleared up in my opinion.

I think more along the lines of what gnemmas said….
“Time to chat with USSC attorney if this ordinance is in effect as stated. It might involve with commercial free speech issue here. There are plenty of cases where stupid ordinances passed and overturned by court. ”... is what is going on here.

[Express Sign]

By the looks of that building I would almost say it might be located in a historic district. If so, the laws are usually much stricter in locations like that.

Going through something like this now with a historic downtown, basically the local officials down there are telling us the law is what it is and if that business does not like it they can pack up and go somewhere else. Does not seem right when all the business wants to do is add a couple extra signs to attract business. Sickens ME!

[Replicator]

What's next . . . Taxing :beer . . . Oh' Wait . . . Never mind . . . !

[gnemmas]

"Intend" of the ordinance or sign criteria is the issue here. Either restrict for the good of public with type of signage, dimension, color scheme or no sign allowed, period.

The fee charged is to cover the administrative & inspection cost, not as a revenue generating scheme. Said business are already paying property & sales tax plus business license fee for that purpose.

I am wondering is there any McDonald of Starbuck in town? Are they paying these "Highway robbery" for each window posters?

[John L]

Not sure if the job is actually in Reading but if so...

http://www.readingpa.gov/documents/Zoning.pdf

Section 27-1709 mentions Preservation districs and the fact that, basically, no signs are allowed there anyway. Reminds me of a non-conforming sign we made for a customer on Hilton Head Island, SC. I don't know if it's been discussed here, but this is a town where Restrictive Sign Ordianaces have gone crazy to the point that you almost cannot find places that you need to travel to unless you already know where they are. Allowed signs and the buildings they go with are buried behind landscaping, extremely small sign sizes in some areas, color criteria, and highly policed.

Anyway, this customer chose to install the sign, non-conforming, and pay his fines for as long as the city would allow. The sign has been there 5 years and still stands. No variance, no exceptions, he just pays his fines monthly and the city doesn't excersize their right to remove it for him.

I firmly believe in building codes, zoning, and sign ordinances but they do get crazy.

[Sign-Man Signs]

Our city taxes /permits just about everything. If the sign is mounted externally, it's a $50.00 permit fee along with engineering plans to include location of the sign with set backs and all that crap. If it's a banner, you can only hang it for 90 days at a time. If it's painted/applied to the building or windows, not permit required. It's constant battle with the city, but it's going to be the wave of the future. I would just everyone get a copy of your local sign ordance and hang on. It AIN"T getting any better...