Battery Backups??

[The Giraffe]

I'm setting up my new baby tomorrow (SP-300) and have a question about battery backups. I have the CPU tied into a UPS 700 but it won't handle the heating elements in the Roland. My concern is a power flicker during a storm when I 4' into a 5' print and having to trash everything if the machine resets itself.

Anybody have any experience?

Thanks,

Jeff

[DoubleDown]

You want to find the specs for your printer overall. You want to find the max output watted consumed and pair that up with a comparable backup system and guess what, it's going to cost some money. If you spent good money for your printer, then spend good money for your backup system. Often, depending on where you live, local energy companies will come put an industrial surge protector on your building for little or no charge. But worst case scenario, you will want to put on a heavy duty surge protector first to control large spikes, etc.

Best of luck and let us know what you find out,

[Ken]

I use an APC 1200 for my sp300.
Ken

[DoubleDown]

Your Roland does about 1080 watts on 120volts

http://www.rolanddga.com/color/products/printcut/Versa/default.asp?menu=SPECIFICATIONS&nxt=3

So you will need a backup that can handle up to 1500 watts in my opinion. UPS has several around this area but I would honestly call them up and tell what you are needing and see what they recommend.

http://www.apc.com/products/special_products/index.cfm

Best,

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

DO NOT CONNECT YOUR PRINTER to a UPS!!!

The only thing anyone should be concerned about is surge protection (spikes). While there are UPS systems that are designed to handle a LF printer, I assure that you that:

1. You cannot purchase them at the store.
2. The cost would run into the thousands.
3. The weight would be extremely high.

While we are not going to get into the detail of power generation, those readily available store-bought UPS systems WILL put your machine at risk.

[player]

I have had my sp540v on one for 2 years...it is fairly big.

P

[John L]

store-bought UPS systems WILL put your machine at risk.

I don't understand the risk.. does it limit the voltage or amperage available to the printer?

Thanks.

[The Giraffe]

DO NOT CONNECT YOUR PRINTER to a UPS!!!



While we are not going to get into the detail of power generation, those readily available store-bought UPS systems WILL put your machine at risk.

I'm not following. My UPS on the CPU has a surge protector built in.

How is any of this putting my machine at risk? I've found a deal on a 1700 watt UPS that's 17 x 9 x 8 and will basically contain two lawn mower batteries. It is big, yes, but what's the risk?

Those that have them:

Has the UPS ever saved an expensive print?

[Craig Sjoquist]

Good practise is ground your electrical plug ins ..even though already ground to building a secound ground going to ground is even better ..doing this on your expensive equipment makes sence ..when lighting hits it will travel to ..ground not building or equipment..

13 folds

[fozzyber]

This should handle and surges.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102068
2200 VA, 1500W.

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

It is too busy to give the education on this BUT your common UPS systems will drop voltage, as the battery loses is state of charge. For "solid state" items that is not a problem because they turn off at a certain point. Motors, and printers have motors, will NOT and they will get hurt with improper low voltage.

Your only risk by not running a UPS is a print job - big deal. Protect against surges and you will be fine. If you call the UPS manufacturers, and you should, they will tell you not connect a large format printer to a UPS.

[Merritt Graphics]

We have several MGE EX Back ups. They can run machines up to 100 amps.
They are 3 piece units and each weigh about 450 lbs. See attached.

Might be overkill for most shops. MGE makes tons of different backups to suite your needs.


http://www.mgeups.com/

[GXSignCo]

Really don't see how HAVING a UPS will cause damage, I'd have to disagree on that one, but what do I know. I have one each of these...the large one for the printer only, the second for 2 computers, cutter, and desktop printer.

Ultra ULT33046 Backup UPS 2000VA/1200W w/AVR
Ultra ULT33045 Backup UPS 1500VA/900W w/AVR

These are a battery backup/line conditioner, so I feel a lot better having these than a simple surge suppresor.

Yes, I've had the power go out and saved prints by having these. One time I simply tripped the breaker while using too much juice on that particular circuit. Both of the UPS's kicked on as designed and the computer and printer kept going w/o a hitch.

[fozzyber]

I'm with GraphiXtreme one this one. A UPS has to be better than with out.
In my area we have alot of "brown outs" lights dim come back on dim again and go out. what is happening here the voltage is dropping.
If you were on a UPS the voltage would drop but not as much as a brown out.
Plus UPS do have a low voltage cut off if the voltage drops below XXX it cuts off. some of mine are user set-able. I use most of my UPSs just to stop the 1-5 second power outages not to run for hours.

[Techman]

You want to find the max output watted consumed and pair that up with a comparable backup system

Really don't see how HAVING a UPS will cause damage, I'd have to disagree on that one,

Mistaken,,

A UPS rated at 1500 watts is not really 1500 watts.
Its 1500 watts PEAK power only during a surge. IT will not carry 1500 watts for more than a very short period.

Next. batteries will not carry a full charge for ever. They degrade the instant they go into life. Today it may carry 1500 but next year it may only carry 1100.

Next. UPS may say 1500 but at what length of time. Is that per hour? is that per minute?

NExt you lose some of that power in the DC/ AC conversion. And, the AC power is not pure AC,, it is chopped AC and usually one side of the loop is missing. That can damage sensitive circuit boards if your printer does not have an onboard power conditioner.

Finally. back up power is meant for very short term usage. That is gives you time to shut down safely. They are not designed to run a job.

A desktop computer at 400 watts needs a 800 watts UPS minimum.

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

AC power is not pure AC

Tech is correct on all counts. The sine wave is NOT a pure sine wave like you would see with AC. Instead it is what we call "modified sine". While many of the lower amperage transistorized components that are so common today will run, MOTORS pose a complete different set of problems.

Trying to run your printer on a back up is no different than trying to run you refrigerator on 96VAC (instead of 120VAC) or you Central AC on 190 (instead of 220VAC).

These cheap UPS systems (and yes, compared to true AC/DC power generation backups, these are considered the cheapies) do NOT regulate voltage in a manner that is required for motors. If you do not believe this, call them and ask - and if they do say "yes", ask them to put it in writing - rest assured they will change their tune.

Here are some other points to consider:

- Heaters are pure wattage - they do nothing but constantly suck energy.
- Quality DC to AC inverters (5000 watts +) run in the neighborhood of thousands, not hundreds.
- Quality industrial batteries are 6 volt designs, and would require at least two, most likely four, to the wholesale tune of $150 - $200 each.

Seriously, it takes a very long time to get a grasp of how power generation works. Nobody has to take my word for it BUT I was personally involved in alternative energy (design/manufacture/import). I have seen to many people lose too much good equipment by making very seemingly simple mistakes.

Use your UPS to allow you to shut down your computer, listen to your radio, or even run some lights but do NOT use it to try and run your printers.

[Merritt Graphics]

Agreed. We use the back ups to prevent any mishaps in a brown out or in the event of a power outage, the 2 seconds it takes for the generator to kick on.

The UPS units serve as preventative damage control....

We put in a 400 amp generator to keep us running.

Again overkill for the majority of shops. We simply can't afford to go down due to power outages so the generator is the price of comitting to our business and our valued customers deadlines.

[John L]

I got ya. I never thought a UPS would pass a voltage lower than 110 from the battery/inverter. makes sense to me.