Profiling on a UV flatbed

[wonsngis]

We got our Gandinnovations 1224 last week and yesterday I set about TRYING to create a profile in Onyx 7.06. Now, I have created quite a few profiles for out various solvent printers with a good deal of success, but something seems to be eluding me on this one.

I've tried 3 times now, and every time I get the same result- absolutely outstanding raster images, good process color vector images, and horrendous spot colors. I've played with every variable I can think of (ink limits, transition control, gamut mapping, black generation, etc...) and the results are barely different.

Is there something unique to profiling UV as opposed to solvent? Is there anyone out there with a jeti 3150 who might be willing to share tips (or a profile)?

Thanks for your help!

[geedub]

Are you using an eyeone? or just testing and retesting?

[wonsngis]

Sorry- I should have clarified that. Yes, I am using an eyeone. My best results so far have been to actually increase the ink limits on the printer itself (not through the rip) then profile and print with spot color replacement turned off. The pantone matches are actually pretty close that way- but, of course, that's all up to chance. I've begun to wonder if there isn't some kind of rip/driver issue because this printer is SO new. Why would everything else look so teriffic when spots look so horrible?

Even though I'm getting good output for now, I don't want to run that way forever. A major drawback to increasing ink limits at the printer is that those limits are only available at increased passes. So, I can get consistent output at modes from 9 pass (where I profiled) up to 21 pass, but if I were to print 6 pass I would have to decrease coverage limits, thereby sacrificing color.

I've been using styrene to profile on, by the way.

[SignManiac]

All I can offer about profiles is every media needs its own. You'd be surprised at the difference between coroplast and dibond.

[geedub]

Yea, your profiles have to be created using the same amount of ink saturation in that speed. On our jeti 3150, we ran everything at 12 pass, 200% ink. I made the profile accordingly and spot colors aren't the best, you can see a lot of magenta in almost every color, lighter colors are worse. I guess the passes and ink percentages on this machine are different, because the 3150 prints terribly at 6 pass. It also only allows 6, 12, 18, and 24 pass modes. Ink limits are 100% @ 6 pass, 200% @ 12, 300% @ 18 and 400% @ 24. I know at 18 pass everything comes out very nicely. I can't remember the guys last name, but his first name is Steve and his last name is not Thomas (that's the crazy english guy, you may have met him). If you call the tech support over there, ask for Steven and ask his last name, he is a spanish guy, super cool dude and knows way more about profiling these printers than I do, or any of the other tech's for that matter.

[wonsngis]

Thanks man, that's the first solid tip I've gotten (admittedly, I hadn't tried calling Gandinnovations yet- that was my next step). I spoke to Onyx twice and got 2 differing opinions, then reviewed an Onyx training DVD and got yet a 3rd.

As for the printing in 6 pass (or less) on the 1224 vs. the 3150, we chose to have the Spectra SE 30 picoliter heads on our machine and it prints quite well at 6 pass- though I probably wouldn't us it for anything to be viewed up close.

[geedub]

yea, get ahold of steven, he knows onyx pretty well, onyx won't know what to tell you really because they don't have all of these printers to work with. The beginning number for the test (can't think of what it is called, it's the first input you do when you create the profile in onyx) is VERY important. Chances are you don't have that number correct and that is probably throwing off your whole profile. I think it calibrates the ink density.

[wonsngis]

Well, it just so happens that Gandi sent out the service manager for north america to be the facilitator of the 2nd phase of our operator training. I have to say that everyone I've dealt with at Gandinnovations has been very knowledgeable, but this guy has been invaluable resource. Not only does he know the machine inside and out, but he has a vast knowledge of the industry as a whole.

As for the profiling, it turns out that the techniques I was taught by GIA a few years ago are not only a bit outdated (imagine that) but they are also not necessarily direcly applicable to UV printers.

The major fault was just like geedub said- in the first step, determining the ink limits- first by setting density on the printer itself, then in Onyx profile maker. In the solvent world, I was once trained that this was simply to determine how much ink a media would hold. Nowadays, this is the point at which you are actually trying to achieve a maximum target density using recommended values for each channel based on a particular criteria (SWOP, Offset, etc). Whereas this used to be a visual determination, you now actually scan those patches. Furthermore, the setting of the light ink limits has always been explained as it relates to the dark ink restriction, i.e. 10% of the dark ink value. My calls to Onyx tech support explained that 10% is 'definately' not enough and to experiment with the settings all the way up to 50%. Our Gandi tech suggested instead to scan the light ink patches to find the maximum density equal to half the target density of the dark. So, in this specific case, we wound up with an ink restriction of 85% for dark cyan and 100% for light cyan. Contrary to GIA training, ONYX training DVD's, online classes and tech support calls, the light ink restriction is actually HIGHER than the dark. Everything after that was pretty much the same as it it always except that the 'advanced grayscale' gave a much bettey gray balance that the 'basic density curve'- again contrary to the Onyx recomendation. Now we are rockin outstanding color!

[wonsngis]

sorry- double post

[geedub]

word man. yea those guys at ganndi, no matter how much of a dick your boss is to them, are always REALLY good. Steven explained to me everything you just said, but since it was ~5 months ago and I haven't worked on a flatbed since then (and i've drank since then) the information wasn't 100% retained. He showed me all that stuff, told me how to do it, and created a profile for us, leaving me with the information on how to do it properly. My boss just never wanted to shell out the couple of grand for an eyeone (400k for a printer but can't shell out 2k for an eye-one, c'mon guy).

[KR3signguy]

All the techs are great.

Have any of you printed white on gandi's flatbed & if so, how's the changover. I really wish that they'd just add it in as opposed to sub'ing one of the light colors.

[wonsngis]

We haven't tried yet but we will soon. We've been so busy running 30-70 4x8's a day on this thing that I haven't even been able to check into the white/clear changeover