calculating the actual area

[Mardi]

I have a need to calculate the actual area of cut vinyl. Meaning just the surface of my images.
What would be the easiest way to do that?

Thanks

[GraphixCALC]

Not really any easy way since you are likely talking about a lot of random shapes that are not easily defined mathmatically. You'd likely need to use some form of integral calculus to get there from here. But why, pray tell, do you need to know the exact area of CUT vinyl? Are you trying to come up with some cute method of pricing based solely on the actual vinyl applied to the surface? If so, you are heading down the wrong path my friend. YOu should be charging for whatever comes off the roll, or at least a rectangular approximation of the area used.

Example: Sign is 4' x 8' and you apply about 75% of that in vinyl, so charge for 32 SF X 75% or 24 SF, regardless of how much vinyl you weeded and threw out.

[jiarby]

Geometry! You would have learned all that in the 9-10th grade.

Most CAD/CAM packages can automatically calculate the area/volume of a drawing but the sign weenies have not implemented this feature.

We calculate costs based on linear feet of material cut off the roll, as Chris suggests.

Given:
1. A 24x18 coro sign uses 1.5 linear feet. (3sqft)
2. Oracal 651 Black costs $80/roll for 50yds.
3. There are 3 linear feet in one yard.

Therefore:
1. 80 dollars divided by 150 linear feet(50yards x 3 feet) means that this roll costs $.53 per linear foot.
2. I used 1.5 linear feet per single side (maximum!)
3. 1.5 linear feet x $.53 means that the coro vinyl costs $.795 per side.

Beacuse my time is much more valuable than the material costs I never dork around with trying to pack in the layout to cut using less material. How many minutes are you going to work messing with layout and application to save some portion of 79¢??

Who cares what the area of the material used is. You should only care about the material CONSUMED to make the sign... not the material DELIVERED.

[deegrafix]

Tools: Millimeter ruler, calculator and layout.

Premise: You know you want the logo on the layout to be 6" tall and need to know how long it will be.

1. Measure the height of the logo in millimeters. (Let's say that comes to 14 mm.)

2. On calculator: 6 divided by 14. The result is your multiplier- .428. Write this on layout.

3. Measure length of the logo in mm. Multiply by the multiplier. Let's say the logo length was 29mm. 29 x .428=12.41. The logo is 12.41 inches long.

If the layout is correctly proportioned this multiplier will work on any aspect in the layout and is correct to the fraction of an inch. Measure any element in mm and multiply by the multiplier and it gives the answer in inches.

You can use it on a straight on picture, such as a van if you have one actual measurement of any part of the van. You can use it on a business card.

This has taken the guesswork out of quotes for me for years. I don't know how the mm to inch conversion works, but it does. Once you've done it a few times it's a peice of cake! I always know what size vinyl to use and how much is needed for the job by listing the size of each element.

I'd love to hear of this benefitting someone because it is a wonderful tool! Most times when I explain it I can watch the person's eyes start to glaze over and no one believes how simple it really is.

Dee

[Rick]

All that sounds like too much work.....

Corel...
http://www.isocalc.com/cooltools/get-area.htm

Illustrator...
www.hotdoor.com CadTools has area in it's CadTracker...you can download the trial version for free.

[GraphixCALC]

Rick, do you know if the Isocalc one will work on multiple images at the same time or just on one closed shape? If only one, it would certainly be a tedious task to select each letter in a paragraph to come up with an exact area calculation.

[Rick]

I think it adds it up.....I know Cadtools will add up multiple shapes...be carefull when trying to figure out over all sign space. I surround the letters with a box and only select the box to determine "overall" space. This is the usual practice for submitting to the city for permitting.

[rcook99]

I must say I think you may be overthinking this. Just use Lenght x Width = sqft,sqyds, or sqinches, which ever works for the size of your layout. If it is multiple images as you state than once they are cut you can simply measure the vinyl used to get your total amount. It is not worth wasting the time to try to save a little vinyl.

Once you have your sqft you can figure out how much to charge for the material. You have to remember there is a lot of waste in doing vinyl.

Good luck.:thumb:

[Rick]

I must say I think you may be overthinking this. Just use Lenght x Width = sqft,sqyds, or sqinches, which ever works for the size of your layout. If it is multiple images as you state than once they are cut you can simply measure the vinyl used to get your total amount. It is not worth wasting the time to try to save a little vinyl.

Once you have your sqft you can figure out how much to charge for the material. You have to remember there is a lot of waste in doing vinyl.

Good luck.:thumb:

I agree, if you are figuring out materials or overall square footage...but in another forum a sign guy had to figure out each letter. The client got the city to count the actual letter space for permitting...(had a very good lawyer I guess) I can't assume what the poster had in mind when asking the question. Either way, the information will work for what you need it for.

[rcook99]

Rick, That sound like a PITA, and will cost alot of $$$$ in time. You metioned another forum, would you mind sharing it as this is the only one I have used.

Thanks

[Rick]

It's not a pain with the ISOCalc plug-in or CadTools...submitting drawing to the city is a pain. I imagine the client valued his identity to get it as big as possible but I wonder how he really pulled it off and the cost.

The forum is the CorelDraw Yahoo group. Quite a few very experienced and talented architectural/electric sign designers there.

[Rick]

Ooops, the CorelDraw Sign Designers Yahoo group....

[Mardi]

My Client lives in a town with realy tough signage code requirements. He is allowed only certain sq ft of signage based on his business's linear frontage of the street. He already has an 2x10' light box and wants to letter his windows as well and for that he has 8 sf left

In order to maximize amount of graphics, I want to calculate the area of the actual graphics only and hope it will fly with the city. After all, the rest is just a window.

I hope that took some confusion out of my question

[flisk]

If he has 8sqft left, do lettering that falls in a 1'x8' area, or a 2'x4' area, etc.

[Mardi]

Flisk, I am trying to maximize the size of what I can give to my client.
I know how to calculate area of overall space occupied by the graphic.

Has anyone used "Get Area" plug in. I have downloaded it and followed the instruction for loading it, but do not know how to access it from within Corel?

[flisk]

it seems like you are over-complicating this. If you are using an Ariel Bold font and go with a 1'x8' area, there is really not much more you can do to maximize the font, short of adding drop shadow.

Unless you are trying to pull a "rules lawyer" thing on em with the whole total area coverage thing?

[GraphixCALC]

It's probably a VB script file, in which case you need to simply make a toolbar for it. Do this thru Tools, Customization...have you ever created your own toolbar in Corel? Really easy, pretty much drag and drop type of stuff.

[OldPaint]

BOY TALK ABOUT ANAL RETENTIVE))))))))
sorry to funny.....8 sq ft is 8 sq ft......either on the window or in vinyl......which will fit in a 2'X4 or 4x2, or 1'x8' or 8'x1' or 2 2'x2' or 2 1'x4'.....got nothin to do with vinyl on the sign...SIZE OF THE SIGN will only let you put that amouth of vinyl on it..................

[Bradster941]

I take it that your trying to set up the City Code Enforcement for a black eye.
Ie. “Yea, it’s 3’ x 8’, but the actual vinyl only takes up 8 sq. ft..”

Not so sure your doing your customer a favor here.

[Mardi]

GX, It is .gms file, I'll figure out how to use it unless someone can give me some pointers.


OP, I think you are missing a point. There is an existing sign on the building which is 8'x2' in size for the total of 16 sf.

My client has "allowance" for an additional 4 sf of signage to apply on the window. City has been anal retentive about it to the point that they want to "approve" not only the size but the artwork too !!??? Any waym, I want to make sure that my artwork does not exceed 4 sf of coverage to the tee. That means only the area that is actually covered with vinyl, excluding empty space between the letters, a hole in a "o" etc. That way I can give my client all he wants and legally fulfill the city's requirement.

[Mardi]

Bradster, I am just trying to comply. I had a lengthy talk with my client about it, and he is pissed at the city and does not care to **** them off, as long as we satisfy them legally.

[Rick]

All the citys I have ever dealt with measure overall size and add the dead space in the letter area. The biggest disadvantage to that rule is a logo that uses upper/lower case with descending letters......especially long names. That dead space eats up square footage. All caps have a better chance of getting more sign space.

What your client is asking for is usually hard to do without a lawyer. I guess if you are getting aid for your time then who cares.

[Git-R-Done]

Mardi, I am not sure what part of IL you are in but I feel your pain. I deal with the same crap daily.

Git-R-Done

[GAC05]

Here is a fast, free (easy) way to get what you want:


Download and install the V4 evaluation version of Rhinoceros.
http://www.rhino3d.com/

Export your graphics from your layout program as simple closed paths in the ai format (. ai v3 always works).
Start Rhino
Start a new File and select the same units you drew your graphics in (i.e. inches mm etc)
Import the ai path file.
Select the paths so they turn yellow.
Go to the "Surface" drop down tab select "Planar curves"
This will turn your outlines into surfaces.
Delete the curves (they will still be selected - just hit delete)
Select all the surfaces
Go to the "Analyse" drop down tab > select "Mass Properties" > "Area"
Look at command line at the top of your workview for the "Cumulative Area"
Done.

This is windows only and the eval never times out.

Update
Opps, its been a while from the last time I did this.
Just checked and you can skip the generating surfaces part.
Rhino will calculate the area of closed curves.
Just import, select and analyse the curves - even easier than i figured.
whk

[Mardi]

Rick, when it comes to an defying sign, there is no fidgeting about it, however when you are doing the windows, coverage is equal to COVERED space only, otherwise the whole window frame would represents the sign.

[Rick]

That may be true there, but cities I have dealt with will measure overall space measured from the top and side of the word, not the actual added individual letter space....there are a few cities that do not allow cabinet signs so you have to measure the overall space. I have heard the argument about window space but doesn't that depend on how the city describes siign types?

It can get even more complicated...when measuring cap height do you measure letters that go above cap height and below baseline (S's O's....) or letters that stay within? Have dealt with that too....

[Mardi]

Yes Rick you are sooo right.
It depends how THEY interpret it.
My position is that if I slap on the window vinyl that does not exceed their allowed coverage area, and they do not like it, they are more than welcome to take me to court and argue it in front of the judge. I seriously doubt it would ever come to that.

[Mardi]

GRD I am in near west burbs of Chicago

[PGSigns]

Around here they take a tape measureand find the widest points. They take the two measurements to get the area. They require this box to be specified when you get the permit to add the signage to get you to the limit. But a banner on the back of a cabinet inside the window does not count..
Jimmy

[John L]

Autocad will do it. Send an eps to anyone with autocad. But this probably isnt going to help you.

Very likely, the municipality already has an approved method for calculating the signage area and it is probably stated in the latest sign ordinance. If they give a square footage, they will also give a method of calculating it.

You should get copy of the local ordinance that they are holding you to and I am pretty sure you will find that they are calculating Height X Width (or some form of this, like "area of up to two boxes" or "area formed by up to 8 straight lines intersecting at 90 degree angles" , etc etc).

Edit... This is 2 years old. Why did I do that? Well there you are.

[OldPaint]

a little to much EGG NOG ...with a LOT OF CAPT MORGANS....maybe????????