JV33 inksets SS21 or ES3?

[Kevin T]

We've ordered a new JV33-160 should be here next week. Initially I had intended to get SS21 ink, 2 x 4c, but I'm kind of leaning toward the ES3 inks in the last few days. All our other machines are full solvent and we don't have an ecosol machine. Anyone have any inpuit or thoughts on the ES3 inks.

The only things I've heard are the usual about not enough bite to media and a smaller colour gamut. But to be honest I've seen prints both including a full PMS chart and the difference is really marginal. However real life experience is better than a basic test. Thank you.

[insignia]

dunno how the SS21 ink stacks up to the SS2 ink we use in the JV3, but given the choice, I don't know why you'd choose an eco-sol over a mild solvent. The SS21 inks aren't the full-solvent inks you're used to (might as well be waterbased compared to industrial solvent inks actully) but they're also considerably better than eco-sol inks. We went from a Mutoh with the Ultra inks (same as roland Maxx) to the JV3 with SS2 and the durability really is something to write home about in comparison. Go with the SS21 inks, just don't expect them to be like your full solvents.

BTW, which plotter did you end up with?

[Kevin T]

Still wrestling with the plotter issue. Trying to justify the extra 4.5K for the Summa against a weekend of fun and frivolity in Vegas. hahaha

We have lots of solvent options(all vented) I was just thinking if the drop off in quality, colour gamut, drying isn't too bad we might go with the ES3 inks.

We're starting to hear rumblings through our client base of spec's being created to reflect more eco-friendly output and processes. I think we're going to see more of this sooner rather than later. This machine may be smaller but I like to try and think forward.

Thanks for the thoughts on the inks. I'll post an update when I choose the cutter.:biggrin:

[Kevin T]

bump

[MobileImpact]

Interesting question. I have 2 Mimakis and a Mutoh. The Mimakis are running on the ss2 inkset and the mutoh is Eco. We can hit color good all the way around with 99% of customers unable to notice the differences. We did however receive a Bid Request today that specified ECO inks. (first time for this customer to specifiy inks).

As long as the equipment and software are set up, and profiled correctly, most, if not all of your customers will not be able to notice any difference.

Good Luck,

Kevin

[Gman]

You have a mimaki JV33-160? If so are you having any profile problems? I am and it is making me wonder about my purchase... any ideas?

[ColesCreations]

Hey- I thought the SS ink was eco-sol:rolleyes:

Which customer can look at the SS ink and say- That's not Ecosolvent?

Anyway, It's not "full solvent", so- it must be eco-solvent.

Just because there is something available with even less solvent, does not make this untrue. A bit misleading maybe, but not necessarily a lie.

Or not...

[Goodgirl]

Eco-solvent vs. Solvent?

As soon as the ink hits the non earth friendly material it doesn't make much of a difference which one is eco and which one isn't. The Eco-solvent has to be discarded in the same manner the solvent does because it is still considered a solvent. They both last as long as the other, but it depends on what you are planning on printing. If you are printing for motor-cross I would suggest Solvent, Eco-solvent seems to change colors in different lighting. If the customer or you have concerns about VOC's then I would suggest a UV Flatbed.

Otherwise go with the ink that you are most comfortable with. Or better yet, you should probably ask the company that stocks the ink which one they carry more of. That would make my decision a little easier. Good Luck!

[Neil]

I went along to an expo last week and they had a JV33 there running ES3 inks. I'm interested in this machine so I got to have a good look over it.
They were printing a hi rez photo in 16 pass and had a couple on the floor so I asked if I could take one to test the inks.
The rep ummed and aahhed but I rolled it up and took it anyway.

Now back in my workshop I was able to have a good look.
The print quality is really sharp - minute details retain their visibility. There was some fairly noticable banding in some of the colors though.

The main thing that struck me was the low gloss level of the finish. These inks are satin! It's really noticable where there are areas of gloss white coming thru the print.

People get annoyed by metamerism, but this is much more obvious than that.

I know that for most people this is insignificant, and laminating will cover it up, but I wouldn't be happy with that finish.
The inks I use now (ITL mild solvent) dry to the same gloss level as the vinyl - you can't tell the difference.

I then tested the inks for resistance to rubbing and could rub the print off with a dry rag. Fingernails don't need any pressure to leave marks. Turps removes the print too easily.

So how does the SS2 ink compare? Is it glossy or satin?

[Rooster]

Not sure if anybody's seen this yet or not. Looks like they have a new high-solvent with eco-like properties.

Check out the link: http://lfp-community.com/content/view/1280/249/

Might be worth a look for those looking for something with more bite than a mild solvent.

[Neil]

Looks good.
So now they offer high solvent (HS1) - Eco hi solvent (Eco-HS1) - mild solvent (SS21) and Eco Solvent (ES3).

"The newly developed Eco-HS1 ink has no toxic ingredients such as Cyclohexanone and NMP, which vastly improves the work environment and health conditions. Also the inks will dramatically reduce odor to the same level of SS21 ink which is used for JV33 series. Innovations like expanded color gamut, improved Magenta, a newly added light black ink, provides a smoother gradation and a more glossy finish."

So it sounds like they too felt the need to address the low gloss finish of the ES3 inks?

"In addition to these attributes, shrinkage of media (especially thin self-adhesive PVC) is prevented."

So it's less aggressive on thin vinyl than their HS1 ink?

"Our new high solvent has both the feathers of a high solvent and eco-solvent ink which dramatically reduces odor, toxins, and media shrinkage. Now customers are not forced to choose unacceptable alternatives"

Such as HS1 and ES3??

[iSign]

thanks for the new word Neil!

I had to look up that one:
metamerism (color perception)

...while two items may match precisely in daylight, in the light of a tungsten lamp one may appear more reddish than the other. Because of this effect, called metamerism, it is always necessary to follow precisely the illumination and viewing conditions specified when comparing sample colors.

[Neil]

Hmm, that's not what I meant by metamerism.
I know it as the effect you see when you look across a print at a certain angle and you see differentiation in the colors in the reflection - like a yellow or reddish tinge floating through.
Certain colored pigments seem to reflect differently.

Likewise, the low gloss inks on a gloss background reflect differently.

[Rooster]

Sounds like bronzing for $500 Alex.

[Rooster]

My new JV33 is in a home office environment. Can I get away with SS21 inks without a full ventilation system? How much worse is the SS21 than the ES3's as far as the stank is concerned.

[lknmedia]

We moved from the ES3 to the SS21 inks and built our own scrubber for under 400 bux. We have about 50lbs of charcoal in it and you can't smell a thing in the printroom ... which is only 10x16.

ES3 inks sucked for us ...

[ScotJ]

I have the JV33 running ss21 and love it. Profile is never an issue - and dry time is awesome. The print is SO durable compared to other inks we've ran in the past.

It can get a bit stinky when you are doing a few hundred square feet all at once!

[Gene@mpls]

We moved from the ES3 to the SS21 inks and built our own scrubber for under 400 bux. We have about 50lbs of charcoal in it and you can't smell a thing in the printroom ... which is only 10x16.

ES3 inks sucked for us ...

We in the peanut gallery would love to hear/see more about this scrubber!
Thanks Gene:notworthy:

[Brands Imaging]

I have a JV33 and have always used the SS21 inks in also a small room (10x16) and it does get stinky if we are doing over 200sqft but we just hang out on the other side of the shop and its fine..but the dry time is AMAZING..i mean, for stuff that we do in our own shop we let dry for an hour sometimes 30min and then go straight to lam...NEVER have had a problem...

I wait 24hrs for all my customer paying jobs though...especially vehicle wraps

[lknmedia]

Here is a pic of the scrubber ...

We cut-down an old server cabinet .... inserted some 1/2 MDO. Bought a motor/fan from Grainger for 200 bucks and exhuasted it out the bottom ... just above the motor is an expanded metal/screen/blue filter foam partition. We put about 50lbs of charcoal on top of that.

We got a couple dryer vents from Home Depot and they fit perfectly into the holes in the back of the Mimaki. We placed a couple of computer fans into these vents as well to help pull the fumes. We use dryer vent hose to route the fumes into the scrubber through the side towards the top. The scrubber pulls the fumes down through the charcoal and exhausts the fresh air out of the bottom.

Next is a relay so we can attach it to the Mimaki outlet and let it control when it runs. We also need to wrap it ... just haven't come up with a cool design yet.

Works great and it's a nice stand for our rip computer.

[Rooster]

I would wrap it with those little cartoon scrubbing bubbles. Only in black instead of white, because of the charcoal.

Maybe with little mining helmets on like they just came out of the coal mine.

[Stan B]

thank you for the great post

Here is a pic of the scrubber ...

We cut-down an old server cabinet .... inserted some 1/2 MDO. Bought a motor/fan from Grainger for 200 bucks and exhuasted it out the bottom ... just above the motor is an expanded metal/screen/blue filter foam partition. We put about 50lbs of charcoal on top of that.

We got a couple dryer vents from Home Depot and they fit perfectly into the holes in the back of the Mimaki. We placed a couple of computer fans into these vents as well to help pull the fumes. We use dryer vent hose to route the fumes into the scrubber through the side towards the top. The scrubber pulls the fumes down through the charcoal and exhausts the fresh air out of the bottom.

Next is a relay so we can attach it to the Mimaki outlet and let it control when it runs. We also need to wrap it ... just haven't come up with a cool design yet.

Works great and it's a nice stand for our rip computer.

[signsny]

Good Morning,

Kevin i need some help please.
I just bought a JV33-16O it came with rasterlink.I like your input that what rip whould i use, Raster, Onyx or Wasatch.

Second question.
I am using Ora jet product.The colors are not coming out crispy i was told to set up profiles.Do you have any?Do you sell them?How can i set it up correctly?The machine came with 3m profile only.

Please advise or head me to the right direction.

Tahir


Interesting question. I have 2 Mimakis and a Mutoh. The Mimakis are running on the ss2 inkset and the mutoh is Eco. We can hit color good all the way around with 99% of customers unable to notice the differences. We did however receive a Bid Request today that specified ECO inks. (first time for this customer to specifiy inks).

As long as the equipment and software are set up, and profiled correctly, most, if not all of your customers will not be able to notice any difference.

Good Luck,

Kevin

[Artgunner]

Here is a pic of the scrubber ...

We cut-down an old server cabinet .... inserted some 1/2 MDO. Bought a motor/fan from Grainger for 200 bucks and exhuasted it out the bottom ... just above the motor is an expanded metal/screen/blue filter foam partition. We put about 50lbs of charcoal on top of that.

We got a couple dryer vents from Home Depot and they fit perfectly into the holes in the back of the Mimaki. We placed a couple of computer fans into these vents as well to help pull the fumes. We use dryer vent hose to route the fumes into the scrubber through the side towards the top. The scrubber pulls the fumes down through the charcoal and exhausts the fresh air out of the bottom.

Next is a relay so we can attach it to the Mimaki outlet and let it control when it runs. We also need to wrap it ... just haven't come up with a cool design yet.

Works great and it's a nice stand for our rip computer.

Nice job! Can you post some more pics? Can you explain the relay in detail. Would love to make one. I have some fans and MDO. I have a JV33. Thanks for sharing.

Art

[DigitalBBQ]

Charcoal on the top of the scrubber , BBQing ?

Aquarium supplier have Active Carbon, sold in a tank of 20 lbs for about $30. These active carbon has the power to filter out the VOC. Charcoal may be cheaper but don't know the true filtering capability of it. It may look the same but certainly not the same media.

Some charcoal even has flavor element of Hickory or somthin like that HEEE-Hawww, surely the room must be smokin! Only thing left is to give customer the garlic bread along with the printouts.