Vista Sucks ? ! ? !

[SignBurst PCs]

I just want to throw a question out there for the PC guys (if you are stictly a Mac guy or gal, please leave this to PC users).

I was responding on another thread and got way off topic, so I started a new thread. I hear soooo many people just say "Vista sucks", but never say why.

I just wanted to get some idea of the obstacles you are facing in Vista.

Why does everyone hate Vista?

Have you actually used it?

Have you heard it sucks, so you are afraid to try it?

Was your experience on an older system that was upgraded or a new system?

If it was new, was it a decent system or a "budget" computer?

Was it hard to use?

Did you have software incompatibilities?

Did you have printer driver (or other driver) incompatibilities?

Which version did you try? (Home, Home Premium, Business, Ultimate)

Did you know that Vista Utlimate has:

- DreamScene (movie based desktop)

- Full computer backup (image based backup that you can even be restored back to different computer/hardware).

- Built in DVD decoder (you can watch movies without DVD software and can burn to DVD without additional software).

- More capable built-in email client (more like Outlook than Outlook Express ever was, even a built in scheduling calendar).

Did you know that it is a simple upgrade from any version to Ultimate (buying a new key and upgrading in place)? The new key just unlocks new features.

Thanks guys and gals. I would love to read feedback and answer any questions anyone might have about Vista. I know that it is not perfect, by any stretch of the word, but I think there are alot of myths out there.

[gvgraphics]

We had it on one of our pc's. It was a new machine, 2gig ram and so on. Even after turning off all of the security crap it took forever to load programs. To me it seems to be more clumsy to navigate and do normal day to day operations.

[fenris242]

i have vista on my home desktop and personal laptop....i haven't had a problem with it other than the basic issues when it first came out of certain drivers not being compatible....as of now, no issue....i turned off the security and user account control....i paid extra for my laptop to have it optimized...which is a fancy word for circuit city turning it on and taking out all the bs that is preloaded and running all the updates.....

i am a pleased vista user....

[signmeup]

I have 4 printers of various type that won't run on Vista.....so I went back to XP. Nice job Bill.

[zoiko]

I have an xp laptop....And yes a MAC....but am getting a new tablet laptop that will come with vista...I'll post how it is.

[Replicator]

Vista Sucks ? ! ? !

Nuff said ! ! !

[fenris242]

I have 4 printers of various type that won't run on Vista.....so I went back to XP. Nice job Bill.

how long ago was it? was it just the drivers? when vista came out, a lot of stuff didn't work with it because no one had the drivers for it....if it was drivers, have you checked to see if there are updated vista drivers now???

[fenris242]

Nuff said ! ! !

have you tried vista??

[SignBurst PCs]

Nuff said ! ! !

That is what I am talking about... no reason, just that it sucks.

[pacmn]

vista sucks i have 2 laptop that i had to downgrade to xp pro vista takes to long to boot , some programs incompatible ,lot more but one of my main reasons is it , Resource hungry when i multitasking it holes me back.

[SignBurst PCs]

I have 4 printers of various type that won't run on Vista.....so I went back to XP. Nice job Bill.

But that is not a Vista problem. That is your printer manufacturer who didn't update their driver (or at least hadn't when you tried).

Manufacturers have been pretty busy updating their drivers this last year, there may be drivers out there now.

I know that the major RIP software developers are all onboard with Vista now and have many built in drivers for Vista (and others available for download).

[pacmn]

http://www.jawjab.com/20-reasons-why-vista-sucks/

and Microsoft know this ,this is way there rushing there new windows 7

[Rick]

Sucks or not, all PC users will have to migrate to Vista, especially with the new Photoshop coming out. I have Vista fear from reading all of the designers downgrading, but most likely I will have little problems with the switch. since I do not run printers or RIPS. I personally would like to see who is successfully running it.

[SignBurst PCs]

vista sucks i have 2 laptop that i had to downgrade to xp pro vista takes to long to boot , some programs incompatible ,lot more but one of my main reasons is it , Resource hungry when i multitasking it holes me back.

This was a problem. Service Pack 1 has all but eliminated this, except on systems with lacking hardware.

The laptop scene was hit pretty hard with this. First of all, laptops do not have the same performance as a desktop to begin with. To add to the problem, laptop manufacturers are all stuggling to sell less expensive models and skimp on hardware specs and quality, which really hurt Vista performance.

Vista doesn't seem to be happy unless you are running newer hardware with at least 2GB of RAM.

[SignBurst PCs]

http://www.jawjab.com/20-reasons-why-vista-sucks/

and Microsoft know this ,this is way there rushing there new windows 7

I have seen no sign of "rushing to Windows 7". There is a big myth out there that Vista is being dumped and Windows 7 is the fix.

Gates announced that MS is trying to get back on the 3 year replacement schedule. This was on track until Vista. Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME and 2000, XP (2002), and then it took 5 years for Vista. He was simply saying that they are attempting to get back on track with Windows 7. He hinted that a new OS was due to be released in the next year or so, but I don't think that he called it by name (Windows 7).

Trying to get back to the 3 year timeline doesn't seem to me as "rushing".

[SignBurst PCs]

Sucks or not, all PC users will have to migrate to Vista, especially with the new Photoshop coming out. I have Vista fear from reading all of the designers downgrading, but most likely I will have little problems with the switch. since I do not run printers or RIPS. I personally would like to see who is successfully running it.


Yeah, printer drivers and RIP compatiblity were a HUGE issue. Most of the big RIPs are Vista compatible now (or at least there newest versions are). This helps with the driver issues too, as the RIP software usually has built-in drivers for mainstream printers.

But again, this is not a Windows problem, but more of the printer manufacturers lagging on new print drivers. The RIP software was a little behind as well. This all gives VISTA a bad name, but isn't really their fault.

[SignBurst PCs]

Don't get me wrong, it had major issues with file transfer speed. This was our major problem. It took FOREVER to move larger files, much longer than XP.

This has since been fixed with Service Pack 1.

[gvgraphics]

After XP came out Microsoft developed a OS called Longhorn, based on the XP design and OS, it never maid it to sale before it was scrapped and they started over. I don't like Vista(personal choice). I do however think they should stop trying to out do Mac and work on a OS that is stable, compatible and has the performance that users are looking for. Instead of trying for all of the visual looks that Vista has, they could have put more time into developing it to run quicker, more compatible and easier to navigate. I do think they made too many changes to quick, and that alone will cost them money in the long run.

[fenris242]

i remembering running windows 3.14 (i think that's right), and not wanting to get a new pc cuz it had 98 and everyone said it was horrible.....then i remembering having 98 and not wanting to get a new pc cuz it had xp and everyone said it was horrible....

i think a lot of the problem is that people just don't want to try something new...and therefore badmouth it....

i can understand if it doesn't run with your printers/plotters...but does that mean that it's not good, or it's just not good with what you're running? and how long ago did you try it with your plotters/printers??

what about for personal use?

[joeshaul]

Why does everyone hate Vista?
1. Because it is a complete change to the way things were and if computer users wanted to change them, they would like to be the ones to do so. I took one look at Aero and immediately said "give me back my blank desktop that I never see cause I actually am looking at the program I am using, not the desktop".
2. I don't see any use for it at the moment, I don't need the new UI and I don't need my old programs and software to not work or have to configure it differently. DirectX 10 is about the only reason for upgrading, and that's only about one of the ten computers in my home that I use Vista on.
3. It does seem to eat up more resources than XP, but "who will ever need more than 640 kilobytes". Eventually the technological progression will make this a moot point as low end systems in five years will have a piddly 4 gig RAM. My three terabyte storage computer is actually starting to fall behind the times as I can swap out all the drives and turn it into a ten terabyte computer for the same cost I paid for it around three years ago.

Have you actually used it?
Yes, my gaming computer has it and a compaq I bought on a slick deal had it. I use the gaming one for gaming all the time, the Compaq has collected dust.

Have you heard it sucks, so you are afraid to try it?
MS will push it regardless of what people want, they'll gladly let consumers switch over to OSX or Linux before admitting that it was just a turd cut from their sphincter.

Was your experience on an older system that was upgraded or a new system?
New systems

If it was new, was it a decent system or a "budget" computer?
Gaming computer is very decent, other computer that I bought the slick deal was good (2 gig ram, 2 ghz dual core)

Was it hard to use?
Annoying to use, yes, hard to use, no, new to use (had to find names for things that have been core components since Win95/NT4), yes.

Did you have software incompatibilities?
Nope, don't have any programs that I use on the machines. I've heard of some programs acting differently. It'll be worked out over time by those program's developers, but why should I jump ahead of the train in hopes that it actually is stopping.

Did you have printer driver (or other driver) incompatibilities?
Nope, but have noticed a few drivers of equipment that I use stating not Vista compatible, or that one was in the works, until then to use XP.

Which version did you try? (Home, Home Premium, Business, Ultimate)
Home, Home Premium

Did you know that Vista Utlimate has:

- DreamScene (movie based desktop)
I don't look at my desktop, I don't know why someone would. I guess it's a computer solution to entertain those who stare at walls?

- Full computer backup (image based backup that you can even be restored back to different computer/hardware).
Because System Restore and MS Backup have always done such splendid jobs in the past. Wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it.

- Built in DVD decoder (you can watch movies without DVD software and can burn to DVD without additional software).
I have a TV and other devices that do it better to suit those needs. I will give MS a big thumbs up for the Xbox though, XBMC while not developed by MS has been one of the best media centers I've ever owned for $20 for the past four years I think. $20 being the cost of an xbox with a dead DVD drive.

- More capable built-in email client (more like Outlook than Outlook Express ever was, even a built in scheduling calendar).
Again, a solution I wouldn't trust. Too many holes in Outlook and OE that have caused worms and such. I want MS to do what they do best, and develop their operating system. Work on their OS, document it well, make API, then let other programmers write their own programs for it to fill in these gaps.

Did you know that it is a simple upgrade from any version to Ultimate (buying a new key and upgrading in place)? The new key just unlocks new features.
If MS did this well, I applaud them, having to reinstall an operating system sucks.

Thanks guys and gals. I would love to read feedback and answer any questions anyone might have about Vista. I know that it is not perfect, by any stretch of the word, but I think there are alot of myths out there.

My comments: It will be the future, regardless of what we want as stated previously. Given 3 years time, I will probably end up with mostly Vista computers, simply because it is cheaper to buy premade comps on deals with the OS included, than build one yourself for slightly higher cost, not including the actual cost of the OS (or attempt to pirate it, which after you spend time learning how to do it, you've already wasted a few more hours). "I don't mean to go on a rant", but having built computers for quite a few years, I've found it damn neared impossible to compete with Dell and others, especially if I factor in the time and annoyance of putting everything together. Case in point, a deal from Dell currently running for $440:

Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q6600 (8MB L2 cache,2.4GHz,1066FSB)
Genuine Windows XP Professional or Vista Home Premium
3GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 4 DIMMs
500GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
DVD+/-RW Drive
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor, 24x7 Phone SupportQuick comparison with Newegg: Processor: $235, hard drive: $90, DVD Drive: $30, 3 Gig memory: ~$70 (I'd probably just go with 2 2 gig sticks)
We're at $425, haven't included motherboard or case yet, and as stated above, no OS. The support is always a nice toss-in on a product that I can't even build at that price.

[SignBurst PCs]

I agree... Vista does have a slightly "new" look to it, but it is very similar to XP in most respects, just tweaked.

MS had a "totally new" idea of what Longhorn (VISTA) should be. Developing it became a long and difficult task, much too long. It caused delay after delay. This forced them to go back a long way and use a "known good" set of code to develop Vista, as we know it now (roughly based on XP).

[SignBurst PCs]

Joeshaul... thank you for your view.

I think alot of it is too much change at once? A lot chaged in hardware, performance, features, etc in the 5 years between XP and Vista. I think that if they would have stayed constant and realeased something in the middle (maybe 3 years) and eased the transition, we wouldn't be seeing quite the backlash that we are seeing now.

All of the featured that I listed above are functional. I love to personalize my computers, so DreamScene is fun to me. I have tried the image backup several times just to see how well it works (beautifully) on both the existing computer and a all new and different computer with different hardware. I love to watch DVDs on my laptop while traveling and I love the fact that I can watch them in Media Player without having to load extra software. The upgrade to Ultimate has been flawless. When Microsoft gives us our software, they give us licenses to Vista Business and we have to pay to make the upgrade to Vista. Just type in the code and it whiz bang boom, it has worked like a charm every time.

[hydo1]

Let me preface this by saying that I do not use Vista on a regular basis, but the several times I have used it I found the UI to be very clumsy. I'm sure a lot of it can be turned off or altered to be less irritating. Microsoft needs to take a cue from Apple and just release ONE VERSION of the OS. Having multiple versions has never made any sense to me. Also, just as a side note, I have a friend who works at Microsoft and he says the general consensus on the campus is that Vista sucks. Enough said.

[Bigdawg]

Our Vista machine is slooowww. XP machines aren't while running basically the same config. And I haven't found it to be particularly user friendly when changing (or trying to change) setting.

[Techman]

But that is not a Vista problem.

Well, it is a Vista problem

The real Vista was written then abandoned .. and then replaced with a win 2k 3 kernel. So essentially Vista is win 2k3 with a face lift. Likewise drivers were a problem because VISTA charged to lisence manufacturers to license new drivers for our equipment.

Likewise no one wanted to pay huge fees for older stuff. Then we computer techs found ways to work around the driver issue such as noticing that many newer drivers were actually rebranded XP drivers. When an installer util looked at the ID string and found VISTA it said the drivers were not acceptable.
So a few of us enterprising techs changed the ID string and suddenly were up and running. In the past 6 months many things have changed in that driver arena.

And finally, no mater what the spin M$ is laying on the general public... Vista is a flop. Stats are showing that most of the present migration to vista is from windows 2k users and not from XP users.

The price cuts for vista, the price cuts with Office 2k7 are all caused by market forces. And finally. There is a slight rumor that windows 7 will be backwards compatible for legacy equipment.

[Bigdawg]

There is a slight rumor that windows 7 will be backwards compatible for legacy equipment.

That would be terrific!

[SignBurst PCs]

Let me preface this by saying that I do not use Vista on a regular basis, but the several times I have used it I found the UI to be very clumsy. I'm sure a lot of it can be turned off or altered to be less irritating. Microsoft needs to take a cue from Apple and just release ONE VERSION of the OS. Having multiple versions has never made any sense to me. Also, just as a side note, I have a friend who works at Microsoft and he says the general consensus on the campus is that Vista sucks. Enough said.

It has taken some getting used to (navigation). But after getting pissed off, I looked deeper and found that I could easily customize my explorer windows to make it much easier and even better than XP. Try cusomizing your "links" folder (start, user folder, links) and see how that works out for you.

I agree with the different versions... what a mess. But what you have to consider is that there are many large businesses that want a no frills version to keep their employees on task and not watching movies or playing solitaire. I think that they should limit it to Ultimate (every feature available) and Business (limited features).

[SignBurst PCs]

Agreed, it is a flop commercially. But is it because it sucks of because of all the negative publicity. I personally think that people are so comfortable with their systems (XP), that major change is hard.

The driver issue is ugly. But Vista drivers are largely XP based. It is much better than it was 6 months ago.

[SignBurst PCs]

This seems to be the trend.

I HATE the version that is out now. It used to be so much better.
I can't wait for the new one.

Doesn't that logic seem to be flawed?

[Rick]

Yeah, printer drivers and RIP compatiblity were a HUGE issue. Most of the big RIPs are Vista compatible now (or at least there newest versions are). This helps with the driver issues too, as the RIP software usually has built-in drivers for mainstream printers.

But again, this is not a Windows problem, but more of the printer manufacturers lagging on new print drivers. The RIP software was a little behind as well. This all gives VISTA a bad name, but isn't really their fault.

Not to bring Macs up as an argument, but Macs are having similar issues too. Try running CS2 on an Intel Mac or on Leopard. To take full advantage of CS3 is costly. Or get new IPods and have to upgrade to Leopard on a machine that would have a harder time running it. Us Mac people are going through similar issues and I believe that is the 64 bit/OS switch that is inevitable but a little painfull for everyone.

[joeshaul]

This seems to be the trend.

I HATE the version that is out now. It used to be so much better.
I can't wait for the new one.

Doesn't that logic seem to be flawed?

People always hope for a better tomorrow, even if today is crappier than yesterday, it is the nature of being human, so while the logic is flawed, it is our way.

I am very happy with XP, if you take a look at the difference between XP and 9X, XP fixed an inherit flaw with 9x, its stability was non-existent. The reason there were so many hardware compatibility issues was because MS's solution was to kill the old kernel and bring in the NT kernel. This stabilized the OS, gave it more control, but prohibited programmers from directly accessing the hardware via simple interrupt calls, port access, etc. It basically cut the sloppy programmer out of the loop, and gave the ones that still had a job to get up to par. Vista doesn't really fix any inherit flaws that I see, but maybe we will in a few years.


I think alot of it is too much change at once? A lot chaged in hardware, performance, features, etc in the 5 years between XP and Vista. I think that if they would have stayed constant and realeased something in the middle (maybe 3 years) and eased the transition, we wouldn't be seeing quite the backlash that we are seeing now.
Most of the people that I've unfortunately helped "learn how to use a computer" will now have to relearn the basics, which was like pulling teeth to teach em. I think the too much change thing is correct, but I also prefer change for a benefit of some kind. The only real change I saw in Vista was "Look, it's purtty and has doodads!" I understand all the loaded down Window Managers in Linux, people get to make their own so they toss in whatever junk they enjoy. I hoped MS would do better than to jump on that trend.

[SignBurst PCs]

Rick, very good point.

I think change is hard. It is especially hard when it is drastic.

We all have thousands of dollars invested in software, printers, etc that all worked with the old stuff (XP). It is hard to swallow that it has to change. Unfortunately, we are going to have to accept it sooner or later.

Do you think it is an accident that the new drivers took so long (or never came at all)? How many new printers (office printers, not large-format) replaced perfectly good old ones because someone bought a Vista PC and their old printer didn't work anymore? How about software for that matter? How many software upgrades were sold to work on Vista? It is part of the business. It is not all MS fault. They have to upgrade and offer new things, just to keep up with competitors. I think that hardware / software may be taking advatage of the situation as well.

[SignBurst PCs]

joeshaul, I hear so many people "happy with XP" and want to keep it. But when XP was released, I remember people hating it because it wasn't anything new over w2k, other than the way it looked (teletubbies). It has talken 3 service packs and 6 years to get it where it is today, where everyone feels comfortable with it.

[SignBurst PCs]

Don't get me wrong....

I understand the frustration. I had it at first too. I am jsut saying that it is at a point now (after SP1) that I can very easily use without aggravation. I have actually grown to like it a lot.

We still sell our systems with XP64 because of market realities. We have also prepared for the fact that XP will be replaced and gone at some point. We have collected and tested our drivers and have a solid, stable Vista build.

My personal opinion is that people will be much better off making the jump now and getting used to it over time, rather than waiting until the last moment and struggling to adapt in a hurry.

[Techman]

that people are so comfortable with their systems (XP), that major change is hard.

They are so comfortable with XP because the cost of going to VISTA is in the thousands.. Not just the $250 for the OS , add on the new over burdened machine, then training time, the lack of legacy support and worst of all the reduced computer speed all adds up to a refusal to accept whats being pushed. In summary Vista is a flop because it doesn't add to the experience it takes away..

[Techman]

It is not all MS fault. They have to upgrade and offer new things, just to keep up with competitors.

What competitors?? They got sued and lost in the USA for being an illegal monopoly. They are taking a beating in Europe because they are an illegal monopoly.

I believe you attended way too many M$ partners seminars. I've been to a couple myself and walked away with a feeling I just left a brainwashing..

[SignBurst PCs]

Just expressing my personal experiences with Vista, not all the hype that I read.

I seriously enjoy it alot and would NEVER go back to XP by choice.

But I do accept that I have to run a new system. I wouldn't ever recommend upgrading an older machine to Vista, just for the change.

[iSign]

I was reluctant to deal with Vista on my laptop, and tried to work around it at first, but accepted my fate, turned off security crap, and have found it to be just fine in the end result.

[SignBurst PCs]

You don't think that Apple and Linux are competitors? Maybe not large market share competitors, but if MS doesn't keep up, eventually that will change.

[hoppers]

In Feb 2007 I bought a mid range HP laptop (about $900) for my personal use and it came preloaded with Vista...I was looking for XP only and was going to buy one, but figured we all will have to go to it eventually when support for XP runs out.

I dont mind Vista, got used to it fairly quick and dont think its so hard to navigate once you get used to it....installed all my software was fine, I just had an issue with Dreamweaver but googled it and 5 minutes later had the patch installed no problems to report. Photoshop/Illy CS2 had no problems either, I think I heard Vista originally didnt run CS3 but think that is fixed now.

I bought the laptop with 1 gig of ram and well opening Photoshop was a dog....so I upgraded to 2 gigs now. It is pretty good and I can have photoshop and Illustrator open, but for some reason if I have MS Outlook and MS IE 7 open for awhile (with numerous tabs) - it locks up my IE sometimes for about 10 seconds. I dont know why, but I think Outlook is a memory hog and Vista doesnt just sip away at the memory, it takes huge chunks and hordes it (or leaks it). Photoshop sometimes hangs for 5 seconds when first opening it too, but after that its not a problem.

I havent upgraded to Vista SP1 that just came out a few weeks ago, but hoping when I do that my memory issue(s) goes away. The memory issues arent a deal breaker, just an annoyance since they dont happen all the time (and could be related to Virus scan or other software).
Overall Im liking Vista and give it a B- and think XP is less of a memory hog, but Vista has some cool built in features as you mentioned. Oh Im using Home premium btw.

-Hoppers

PS - I also made the explorer look more like XP pretty easily...and turned off the UAC (user account control) since that was fairly annoying.

[SignBurst PCs]

Hoppers, this has been my experience as well.

My laptop, even with a dual core processor and 4GB of ram is a little slow sometimes.

My desktop, on the otherhand, has no performance issues what-so-ever. I am not running a budget system though.

[Techman]

You don't think that Apple and Linux are competitors? Maybe not large market share competitors, but if MS doesn't keep up, eventually that will change

NOt hardly. the two combined are at what percent???
MAC has increased sales but total market share has NOT increased.
Linux has increased usage but until it can load up and run M$ without a tweak it will continue to be in the experimental arena.

[SignBurst PCs]

So you think that MS should have just left it all alone and keep XP for 10 years?

[SignBurst PCs]

OK ladies and gentleman... Gotta go to work now. Thanks for the feedback and stimulating conversation!

[SignsRus]

Eye candy isn't a necessity =P

I'll continue running XP on my budget gaming rig until I can afford a rig with enough resources to handle vistas hefty arse =O

And I'll never run anything but ubuntu on my laptop.

LINUX FTW =]

Save your resources ;)

[signmeup]

how long ago was it? was it just the drivers? when vista came out, a lot of stuff didn't work with it because no one had the drivers for it....if it was drivers, have you checked to see if there are updated vista drivers now???
Yes it was the drivers. I don't care if new drivers are out....I switched back to XP. Microsoft should have figured out a way to allow the old XP drivers to work IMO.

[signmeup]

So you think that MS should have just left it all alone and keep XP for 10 years?
Does Vista do anything that XP didn't do?

[SignsRus]

Does Vista do anything that XP didn't do?

Ya takes up twice as much memory =O

[signmeup]

Seriously....what is the benefit to me, to switch to Vista?

[SignsRus]

Seriously....what is the benefit to me, to switch to Vista?

I'd have to imagine the only benefit being if you went 64bit, and had hardware that could handle vistas resource hogging arse...then you could benefit on some 64bit performance

But I still find that hard to believe. I think vista was more eye candy then anything. And like mentioned earlier in this thread companies are selling it on computers that don't even have enough power to run it properly. Really turning people off =O

[OldPaint]

VISTA...reminds me of GERBER GA 6.0...made so you have to do things 2- 3 times before you can actually do em.
i got the wife a new puter...WITH VISTA....i got corel X3 loaded on it...now it tell me that the ADMINSITRATOR did some thing so it cant install UPDATES....IAM THE ADMINISTRATOR....stupid machine....i did nothing(that iam aware of)to stop any upgrades.
its ok......only thing i like is the SMOOTHENESS OF OPERATION...in the graphics....nice but WHEN IT PESSES ME OFF....it will get XP!!!!!

[signmeup]

What does "64 bit" performance look like? Will I make more money?

[hoppers]

yeah personally you arent losing out without going to Vista...but nowadays any prebuilt computer you buy has it preloaded (and hard to get XP unless you buy a Dell business computer or build it yourself), so just get used to using it in the future as MS eventually will not support XP anymore.

[choucove]

I purchased an HP notebook ($1,000) back in November with a dual-core AMD Turion X2 and upgraded it to 2 GB of memory and a 7,200 rpm hard drive. I did this because I noticed at first just how slow Vista was. Now, this was my first computer with Vista, and it came preloaded with Vista Home Premium, but I was incredibly disappointed how much time it took to work through things (loading, opening programs, moving files, etc.)

Even after upgrading the hardware, Vista still ran slow. I upgraded to Ultimate just after the beginning of the year to see some extra features (Hey, if I'm gonna go to a new OS, I wanna see what's really new and the best that they can offer.) Again, disappointed with their performance.

One thing I noticed about Vista is that it tends to slow down on your system much faster than XP. A system running Windows XP will eventually slow down slightly in certain tasks from lots of old registry values, cleaning, etc. Vista slowed down DRAMATICALLY within a few months of its installation.

A lot of the built in security access "Confirm/Deny" constant popups causes me the biggest grief. Because you have to click confirm on five different Windows popup warnings just to delete a folder, it ends up taking you five times the amount of time to perform the simplest tasks as in XP. It's also gotten to the point where it takes several seconds of Vista just hanging there thinking before it will pop up each of these Windows messages, causing even more sluggish performance.

The real difference I saw between XP and Vista were all visual changes. It did not offer many new, better, or improved features over XP other than asthetic changes. However, if there aren't as many improvements and the OS isn't offering so much more power than XP, why is it requiring to use huge quantities of system resources compared to XP? Simply put, Vista disappointed me in this aspect as well, as it was like having a very unstable installation of all Norton products on the computer again, attaching to everything and making everything seem to run slower.

I've been very close to reverting my HP laptop to XP, the big kicker that keeps me from doing it is the lack of drivers for these notebooks for XP since they were built for Vista.

I truly believe that MS needs to do a lot more planning and really offer some improvements over the OS and not in asthetics. 90% of the customer base out there would purchase the product for its stability over its asthetics. In the next few years I'm hoping that 64-bit computing will really begin to take hold, and more software programmers begin making the change over to this standard. A more solid 64-bit OS is in the future and desperately by MS. When you think about it, a modern desktop requires 2 GB of memory just to run Vista smoothly, and that's your standard memory included in your basic systems today. However, because of limitations of 32-bit computing you can only have up to 4GB. That limitation is removed with 64-bit computing.

But lets face the real music. MS just as all of us know that we will all have to eventually turn to Vista because of support, drivers, compatibility, etc. MS knows this and that is why they can just ignore the millions out there voicing how much they dislike Vista and want to stay with XP. But, at least it seems to me and I know to several others, it seems almost cruel that you must completely change your entire system for an almost inferior OS. Will Vista be better in the next few years? Of course, the same happened with XP. But right now, for a lot of people, a lot of programs, and a lot of businesses Vista is just not ready.

[Techman]

I've been very close to reverting my HP laptop to XP, the big kicker that keeps me from doing it is the lack of drivers for these notebooks for XP since they were built for Vista.

The drivers are available.. Just gotta be resourceful. Theres more than a few of us around that are reloading XP onto vista machines now. However it will come at a small price. There are several places online that have kits available now that have all the drivers bundled.

The trick is for the SATA drives. They need their drivers during the early stages of XP install. You will make a slipstream Xp install disk which is easily made with nlite.

good luck..

[choucove]

The drivers are available.. Just gotta be resourceful. Theres more than a few of us around that are reloading XP onto vista machines now. However it will come at a small price. There are several places online that have kits available now that have all the drivers bundled.

The trick is for the SATA drives. They need their drivers during the early stages of XP install. You will make a slipstream Xp install disk which is easily made with nlite.

good luck..

These were actually the main drivers I have been having difficulties finding, as none of the actual chipset driver pack is available through HP Support for XP on my notebook. The other big driver that I was missing was for the nVidia VGA drivers, but that shouldn't be too big of a deal really just searching nVidia for some drivers for the 6100 XP drivers. I got them for Linux, I'm sure I can get them for XP.

Now what about this slipstream XP install disk? Every time before for SATA drives I've just always made a simple floppy with the SATA drivers. I can probably get the drivers for XP around if I just do some hunting for who makes the actual chipset for these HP Pavilion DV6409 wm notebooks.

I just today learned something else about Vista that makes me upset. The release of SP1 for Vista Ultimate effectively hides all the Ultimate features and special tools that were supposed to be what Ultimate was all about. Since MS can't really come up with new cool tools and gadgets to send out still for those with Ultimate, they are basically just going to hide them. It seems like a really raw way of trying to cover their tracks. http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=806

[SignBurst PCs]

What does "64 bit" performance look like? Will I make more money?

Well it depends on how much you wait on your computer now. With 64Bit and 8GB of RAM, my Vista system moves. It moves fast. If you are designing on PS and waiting and waiting, then 64 bit with more RAM might help. Faster design times help you make more $$$.

Even with 4GB of ram, everything being equal, PS is 8%-10% faster on a 64Bit OS than on it's 32 bit counterpart (% stolen from an adobe developer forum).

[SignBurst PCs]

I just today learned something else about Vista that makes me upset. The release of SP1 for Vista Ultimate effectively hides all the Ultimate features and special tools that were supposed to be what Ultimate was all about. Since MS can't really come up with new cool tools and gadgets to send out still for those with Ultimate, they are basically just going to hide them. It seems like a really raw way of trying to cover their tracks.

Not entirely true. I have SP1 ,and still running DreamScene, the most popular "Extra". DreamScene and the Content pack are available throught Windows Update, jst as they were before. MS is jsut putting less emphasis on them as people were basically ignoring them anyhow. They are new, no one knew how to use them.

I can't tell you how much easier it is to backup and restore in Vista (vs XP). The image backup is a breeze. DVD player (decoder) and Media Center are built in. The sidebar is cool if you dowload new gadgets. There are a TON of new features available. But if you only use your computer for surfing the web and basic programs, then no, you aren't going to notice a difference. They are virtually the same on Vista and XP.

For me, I use my PC for a million different things. Vista takes care of most of them out of the box. With XP, I had to load a lot of third-party software to accomplish what I wanted.

[Techman]

DVD player (decoder) and Media Center are built in. The sidebar is cool if you dowload new gadgets. There are a TON of new features available.

Yes, but every one of those features are restricted, or under some kind of reduced function. Third party stuff is still better no matter what. Id rather have a fine running machine than 2 gigs of junk bling. Its about using the machine not about it being an entertainment center.

[MarkFP]

A large OEM manufacturer distributed Vista Ultra to all the employees. 75% of these were passed on to friends and family... that is how I obtained my copy. Loaded it onto my laptop and home system and ran for a couple months... now both have been switched back to XP pro.

Yeah, Vista is pretty and can do some "cool"stuff, but if you have real work to do, Vista is an insult and a waste of time.

Good article below on Vista woes...

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1870375122;fp;;fpid;;pf;1

[Todd-sta]

Its about using the machine not about it being an entertainment center.

That's thinking inside the box -

The computer is very much about being an entertainment center, and will become even more so before you know it.

What.... you don't consider the internet and this site entertainment? And it was accessed by your computer.

[Bullzeye]

Vista is Horrible. I had it on my machine . I ran versaworks on it for 8 mos. and then all of a sudden... whenever I would cut a file the plotter would just stop in mid cut. I tried everything to fix this problem, even reloading vista.
never could figure it out and finally just bought a new computer with xp. Never had another issue. I lost a weeks worth of work because of vista so yeah.... I Hate it!

[SignBurst PCs]

Vista is Horrible. I had it on my machine . I ran versaworks on it for 8 mos. and then all of a sudden... whenever I would cut a file the plotter would just stop in mid cut. I tried everything to fix this problem, even reloading vista.
never could figure it out and finally just bought a new computer with xp. Never had another issue. I lost a weeks worth of work because of vista so yeah.... I Hate it!

And you think this was a Vista issue? Did the computer have other issues or just this?

I think that many people find it very easy to blame Vista when it could very possibly have been a problem in the software that they are trying to run on Vista.


Changing back to XP was probably a great idea because Roland has had 6 years to make sure their software was bug free on it. They have only had a relatively short time to work all of the bugs on Vista.

[SignBurst PCs]

Yeah, Vista is pretty and can do some "cool"stuff, but if you have real work to do, Vista is an insult and a waste of time.

Wow... harsh. I do real work all day long on my Vista system. I am even able to do it at a pretty good pace. I can't think of anything that I could do in XP that I can't do in Vista (there may be something, but not off the top of my head).

It is fair to say that:

On the same hardware, XP is faster than Vista.

It is also fair to say:

Vista was written in an age of much faster hardware than XP was.

I would never try to install Vista on old hardware, it wasn't meant to do that. Actually, I take that back. MS does have a version of Vista for old and slow hardware, Vista "Standard", but I think it is only sold in third world countries or something.

Vista was written to be installed on modern, more capable systems. The bulk of the problems are created when computer builders and OEMs install Vista on "lacking" hardware configurations. They do this to meet a price-point to lure in the bargain shoppers. While the customers think they are getting a great deal, they are really being setup for failure. Had they spent a little more money and bought a system with another GB of RAM (or 3), a faster processor, and a little better video card, they would have had a much different, more pleasant experience.

Earlier, there were speed issues, even with capable system configurations, but SP1 seemed to solve those issues.

Laptops are a perfect example of this. A laptop, even though its specs look impressive, are rarely as fast as a desktop. This makes things even worse. If you skimp at all on a laptop, you may be in for a suprisingly slow experience. Turning off some of the whiz bangs may help, but a faster processor, faster hard drive, and more memory are better solutions.

I guess the biggest part of this is that it is "expensive" to buy a capable system. But I remember happily forking out several thousands of $$$ for my first PC, many years ago. To be honest, if I were to spend that same amount of money now (even without inflation), I would have a kick-*** computer.

[Techman]

The bulk of the problems are created when computer builders and OEMs install Vista on "lacking" hardware configurations

Sorry my friend. I have a brand new machine here with Vista and its a real DOG. DUAL core cpu and it runs considerably slower than my old 2.4 gig CPU. Another machine left my place this weekend when the owner brought it by to get it to run faster. There wasn't much to do except turn off all the over head security, and desktop fauna, and delete 17 demo programs all with phone home crap Some of which is on all the time to meet the NEW anti unauthorized copying security standards. Notice I did not say Pirating which is a completely different animal.


This entire thread is nothing more than an infomercial for Vista..
Minds are already made up. Too many of us have experience with it and work with it every day.

Were you inspired by the M$ partners deal to do this?

[slipperyfrog]

Have run it from day one and except the odd driver issue we have had no problems. We have good machines with plenty of ram and Vista is good and will only get better with more patches.

XP sucked monkey nuts when it first came out too. Anyone remember that?

[choucove]

I've been discussing with my supervisors at the University of Kansas School of Engineering about the future of their Windows computers in the labs. Currently about half are installed with Windows XP Professional while the other half run Fedora 7. There's a lot of people in the IT department that are ready to just keep running XP for the next three to four years without any upgrades to Vista and wait for the next one to roll along. This is from testing how Vista runs on their different systems and it just does not work at all nicely with their software. A lot of it is older software, some others are newer but just do not run well in Vista. You also add on to this that the computes are moved from location to location in rotations based on age. The hardware-component programmers don't need as much power so they generally run the older computers, but your normal programmers, as well as matcad and CAD users need the newer computers with more power. But still, the OS must run solid on all systems, and that's just not happening now (or in the next year at least) with Vista.

[SignBurst PCs]

This entire thread is nothing more than an infomercial for Vista..
Minds are already made up. Too many of us have experience with it and work with it every day.

Were you inspired by the M$ partners deal to do this?
Why would I do this if I were not inspired by my own experience?

MS doesn't write me a check (wish they did). It makes no difference to me at all if I install XP or Vista, other than I think that those who shy away from Vista are missing out. I do understand that there are still those who have a software incompatibilty or driver issue, of course you have to stick with XP then.

I work with Vista everyday as well. I really get a kick out of it everytime I find something new that I can do (that I couldn't do with XP without having to search and load third-party software).

Techman, did you read my post. I did conceed and say that Vista was slower on the same hardware (if you are running basic hardware, like most OEMs). I see very little noticable difference in performance (if any) when I sit two of our design computers next to each other, one with XP and the other with Vista. Granted, they are not running the basic recipe of hardware. The faster the hardware, the less of a performance difference. That has been verified in other benchmark testing that I have read.

I also see a number of posts on this thread from people who have had a few minor problems, but are happy with Vista for the most part.

I would guess that no matter how much they changed it, you wouldn't be happy with it. It has left a bad taste in your mouth. I only hope that the next version, Windows 7 is all that you have hoped for and more. I am really looking forward to it as well. I always like to try new things, expecially with computers. I guess that is why I like Vista so much now.

I really just wanted to touch base with the people that have used it and see how it was working for them in their businesses. If they were having major obstacles. Eventually, MS will make us start installing Vista only and we want to be prepared. For now, we are very happy to install XP.

We know that the design software, CS3 and Corel, run well on Vista (and even better on Vista 64). All of the main RIP vendors (and Flexi) have assured me that their products run well on Vista too. I know that there were problems early on with drivers, but wanted real word confirmation that some of that was being changed. There is even one major RIP software vendor who will only run stable on Vista64, not XP64, which is interesting to me, but not a huge factor as most RIP workstations are still 32Bit. More and more are making it to 64 Bit as multiple rips/printers suck up more resources.

[Techman]

I would guess that no matter how much they changed it, you wouldn't be happy with it. It has left a bad taste in your mouth. I only hope that the next version, Windows 7 is all that you have hoped for and more. I am really looking forward to it as well. I always like to try new things, expecially with computers. I guess that is why I like Vista so much now.


Nope mistaken.. There is no bad taste in the mouth at all.
Ive made a good amount of money from the problems with vista. I know fisrt hand how much downtime too many have suffered because of some small glitch that should never have existed in the first place.

Such as the reduced functionality fo the Hi DEf systems down to just abouve that of a DVD. The reduce abled media player, and a few other small things in the media arena that make it just about worthless. How about the greatly reduced video rendering speeds in the name of copyright protection. Why does an OS check to see in a rendering is copyright protected during the entire precess when rendering a wedding video? Because is is intrusive. Why does an OS check streaming vids for cutoff points? because its intrusive. They sold out to the media moguls.

I could go on an don as to why Vista is the flop it is. But the recent announcement that win 7 will be out in less than a year makes going to vista a waste of time and resources. IT is also proof they made a mistake reducing functionality in the name of media protection.

And finally that new media watch chip takes the cake from the baby. Having a software turn itself on or off via that chip even though its on a MAC or PC makes it so much harder for a developer to bring his work to market. Can anyone imagine trying to code an entire image collection to meet the new "required" standard? ITs not an OS anymore its becoming a cop. We d onot need more interference in our lives. we want freedom.

I would be willing to bet you were not around when XP came out. If you were you would remember that every tech worth anything knew reams and every detail before it was released via the "leaked" black market devils own release that was later turned off.

As for XP being hated. That is a misstatement. It was SP2 that was hated because of all the problems it caused. Myself and two others discovered that the API and DLL calls would cause a failure on all dongled software before it was released. I posted all over the web not to install it yet and remember very well how too many sign persons suffered. I remember that very well because removing SP2 was almost my retirement fund.

Vitsa is a flop. Its a well polished and chrome plated terd. Shades of windows ME all over again.

[SignBurst PCs]

I would be willing to bet you were not around when XP came out. If you were you would remember that every tech worth anything knew reams and every detail before it was released via the "leaked" black market devils own release that was later turned off.


Was not around? You think I am how old? Was alive, kicking, and even potty-trained by then.

You mean to tell me that the the RCs didn't give developers and techs (minus the security vendors) time to know what Vista was all about?

Come on... XP was a hated "teletubbie" OS. I still see people clinging to W2K in larger environments. This is old news playing over and over again.

And when exactly do you think that "7" is coming? Gates comments were most likely (confirmed by MS) pertaining to an alpha or beta. If Vista was any clue, 7 could take a while.

[choucove]

Explain which is better at performing the given tasks along with your reasons, experience or opinion. Granted, not all possible uses and comparisons are listed here, but a general list. There's a lot of discussion that Vista may be better than XP at some things, and XP better than Vista at others, so what are they specifically? Give your choices to these below and more if you feel.

Internet & networking stability: How stable handling internet content is, ease of setting up networking properties basic and more complex, etc.

Software & program stability: How well programs of different types run on the OS without having random glitches attributed in some way to the OS.

Software & hardware compatibility: Which OS supports the best hardware more readily, the most software more readily, and has fewer issues with different programs running on the same system.

Content security: Which OS offers better security against such threats as viruses, malware, etc. Take into consideration the amount of space and resources required to do so, the amount of "interuption" this causes to the rest of the system or other programs, and the ease of use and effectiveness.

User security: Which OS protects better against user's errors or problems that could be caused from a user manipulating or changing system settings. This also includes protection of user's information both from outside interactions from the internet or similar, and from other user accounts on the same computer.

System manipulation: Which offers better ease of customizing, fixing, debugging, or resetting system configurations and running administrative tools?

Asthetic modifications: Which offers more options and which is easier to work through without problems integrating or working with applications?

Scalability & system flexibility: Which offers the highest amount of scalability from a simple desktop to several networked workgroups or being used to host a server even? Which can handle upgrades to the system best and with more ease such as hardware upgrades?

Media Performance: Be it through third-party software or integrated, which can show media of different types better and is simpler for the user? Be it playing movies or photographs, which offer the best options and customizations, as well as support for different types without interference to use the media?

Other Comparisons: Any other large comparison that I've left out based on the same computers running XP or Vista.

[Rick]

This was just posted in Yahoo News...

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/25252

[Little City Signs]

I've been running vista for 8 months now and it has progressivly goten better. I run windows live one care which takes the hassel of having so many different pc fix programs running all the time. As far as compatability only my webcam doesn't work. Printer works fine, don't know why people complain about printers not working, they break very easily these days unless you by a good one which can be very expensive. Not to mention they practicaly give you a free or super discounted printer if you buy a pen these days.

My experience with vista has been great. I love that the windows key actualy has a funciton now because of the intergrated search into the start button. I can just type and scan my computer usually under 5 seconds every file on my computer relitive to my search, including some files that support meta data of what is contained within the file. So I can search for a document that contains certain text but which is not included in the title. The only program not to work with vista so far for me is worms armageddon....big deal...

My friends all bash me for having vista, but truely its not because they have used it and don't like it. It's because they don't like the idea that I have something different or "more advanced" its stupid really. My mother sister and roomate are computer literate enough to search the web and send an e-mail, and have had no problem adjusting to vista.

I have loaded so many programs onto the computer its rediculous. And have so many mp3's movies, everythings...500gb with only 15gb left and the computer is still running fast. I've knowticed that it has slowed down a bit. But I know 100% that if I had treated XP the way I've treated vista. I would have already reformated once or twice.

Just my 2 cents. I think vista is great.

[Matt Cuellar]

I've used Vista Home Premium and was surprised at how sluggish it was. My wife has a 3GB RAM 180GB HD laptop and it took FOREVER to open photoshop and Wasatch. Once we rolled it back to XP Pro, it was LIGHTENING fast! I thought the interface was kludgy and not as user-friendly as XP...but I didn't play with it that much so maybe once you get to know it, it's OK. I'll just stick my my Dual Core Mac with Leopard and XP. :smile:

[Signguyno1]

A wise old owl
sat in an oak,

The more he saw
the less he spoke

The less he spoke
the more he heard.

Why cant we be
like that wise old bird?
:rolleyes:

[Samm]

I must be a one-in-a-gazzilion...Vista here, running flexi 7.6 no probs, nothing slow, nothing freezing, no complaints. Then again, I don't print so no overly massive files to deal with.

I Did have initial problems with my wireless but soon sorted that.

Sam

[theskipman_98]

i remembering running windows 3.14 (i think that's right), and not wanting to get a new pc cuz it had 98 and everyone said it was horrible.....then i remembering having 98 and not wanting to get a new pc cuz it had xp and everyone said it was horrible....



Yeap remember 3.xx (gone are the days of c://win), had no problems with Win95, or 98, or Me (actually liked Me best). Then came XP, hated it....nothing worked with it, but further down the road the drivers finally caught up and everything was fine after I got the SP2. For right now I'm sticking to XP. (still never got my Quick Cam to work with XP)

Now along comes Vista, had to go and help a friend do set ups on his son's new Dell, and it brought back memories of when XP came out. I got a kick out of the new Dell printer (with Vista drivers) not being recognized or working. ( had to use my laptop to get the new one's off Dell's site). Has been nothing but trouble since, his games not running, locking up, wouldn't even shut down after lock up, had to pull the plug (thought we were going to have the viewing right there:Big Laugh) Oh the best one was hooking the kid's X-box 360 up to it to play nice... (he gave me the Dell all in one for doing this one...it runs fine on XP- just plugged it in and it installed itself)

I have a problem with them releasing these OS's when no one has had a chance to catch up ( new drivers for older equipment, etc. ). They seem to push it off on us and say, "here deal with it!". And I dread that sticker on my newer laptop that says "Vista-Ready" (came with XP)

Well at least we aren't doing signs using LOGO- trying to get the turtle to follow the letters or graphics :thumb:

[Little City Signs]

Yeap remember 3.xx (gone are the days of c://win), had no problems with Win95, or 98, or Me (actually liked Me best). Then came XP, hated it....nothing worked with it, but further down the road the drivers finally caught up and everything was fine after I got the SP2. For right now I'm sticking to XP. (still never got my Quick Cam to work with XP)

Agreed. Same thing here with me. Only I can't get my webcam to work with vista...only xp drivers lol

[Joe Diaz]

:munchie:I have Vista at home and on two of our design stations at work. I would almost go far as saying I love it… especially at home. They made huge improvements to the media center, which has features that I’m almost certain are not available on a MAC. Or at least no one talks about it. I have my PC in the back room of my place and it is hooked up to my TV in my living room wirelessly. Before, my home computer had XP Media Center Edition then I upgraded to Vista Ultimate. Now keep in mind this was a three year old computer that in its heyday was boss, but it made the transition pretty smoothly, in fact, it was easier installing Vista then XP. I remember spending hours after installing XP tracking down drivers off of CD’s and websites, but I only had to track down one driver after installing Vista.

I also remember when XP first came out people complained a lot about it too. Eventual software and hardware companies seemed to get on board and now we are seeing the same thing. At work the two Vista machines came with Vista Installed. They run even better, but then again they are way faster then my 3 year old personal PC. Plus they were built for Vista. At first Graphtec didn’t have drivers for one of our plotters, but that was the only problem we had. A few months later they had a solution. For the time being we just used one of our XP machines to plot from. Pretty soon I think we are going to switch over the rest of the computers at the shop to Vista. And from what I have seen so far, I’m not too worried about it. I enjoy all the additional features and even like the new look. It seems to run a bit faster too, maybe due to the fact it’s 64 bit? I don’t know. I just know it works fine for us.

For the life of me I can’t figure out why people are having so much trouble with Vista… and we aren’t even that smart!:Big Laugh

I would much rather try it out for myself and see whether or not I like a certain operating system or software, rather then listen to people who have heard that this or that “sucks” or has a friend who works on computers and they say it “sucks”.:rolleyes:

[Tony Teveris]

At work I have been using Vista 64 (Ultimate) since it was introduced with absolutely no problems. This is on a Dell 670 @ 3GHz and 2gb of memory, dual monitor and just upgraded with the SP1. Again this is for work so lots of compiling, debugging code, etc. I do NOT shut it off unless I’m fiddling with something inside and it has never crashed.
My son has a Dell XPS laptop for college with Vista 32 – Home and has not had any problem what so ever.

[KR3signguy]

Why Is It Only Pc Users Are Only Allowed To Criticize?

[Joe Diaz]

Why Is It Only Pc Users Are Only Allowed To Criticize?

Because the original question is geared towards first hand experiences with vista, In order to be able to criticize a product you would need to have used it first. Testing it out at Best Buy wouldn’t count:Big Laugh. I guess if you were a Mac user and you had it loaded on there too that would make sense, but this is kind of uncommon isn’t it? Otherwise it’s just biased people making comments about something they don’t know anything about. I think that was the original point Wrap Computer Guy was trying to make. How can you comment on something you don’t use? It would be like me critiquing feminine hygiene products.

You keep hearing the same comment being said: “I heard from so-and-so that vista sucks” but in a lot of cases no real reason why. And those of us that use it everyday are scratching our heads trying to figure out what the big deal is. Then you have the random blogs about how terrible it is, but with little effort you can find some that sing praises… or articles about how much Leopard sucks… from people we don’t know. How do we know who to trust? I say try it out yourself. I bought vista for my home computer to test it out before we made any commitments at work, and I was pleasantly surprised, especially after the terrible things people say about it.

I understand that some people have installed it and couldn’t find a specific driver, but that isn’t entirely the OS’s fault. This same thing happens ever time a new OS comes out. It blows my mind how easily people forget that.

[klmiller611]

Try running CS2 on an Intel Mac or on Leopard.

Hey Rick
First time poster here, and off original topic, but I am curious about your comment above. I have had no trouble running CS2 on my intel Mac, but running the CS3 version of Illustrator has issues on my machine, frequent crashes, cannot save as EPS or AI files. What have you run into?

Best
Ken

[Techman]

I would have already reformated once or twice.


hehe,, reformat is for amateurs..

[SignBurst PCs]

hehe,, reformat is for amateurs..

Techman, I don't know you and I haven't been on this forum very long, but you sure do seem to have a way of accepting your own opinion as fact and dismissing others as stupidity.

What good did this comment do for anyone?

There seem to be a lot of good points brought out for both sides of this topic. I don't think that there is a right or wrong, it is just a discussion.

[Techman]

Techman, I don't know you and I haven't been on this forum very long, but you sure do seem to have a way of accepting your own opinion as fact and dismissing others as stupidity. What good did this comment do for anyone?


Nope
There was no stupidity mentioned. You are the one saying stupidity..

As for reformat. Too many new techs and hobbyists and users saying only way out is to reformat. If you read back over many posts you will see I always said reformat is not the answer in about 98% of the cases. The time to reformat and re-install is no longer a matter of a couple hours as it was in the good old days. In many cases. It takes a couple of hours just to install windows and the drivers.

And now with so many of us running fifteen - twenty different programs reformats and reinstalls are very time consuming propositions. Is that worth it in the long run when all it usually takes is just a registry tweak? One hour verses an all day affair? Anyone who has ever done a reformat and reinstall knows the answer to that question.

Instead of frustration,, I was thinking someone would ask for the easy alternative which is...... IMAGE the DRIVES and never again have to reformat and reinstall.

Does that answer your question? Stimulating someone to think about an alternative is better. Is it not? I was thinking you would have offered imaging as an answer.. Alas, the old ASSUMEd law prevailed.. My error..

[N2Harpz]

This is all very interesting. There are lots of pros and cons about Vista. Fact is Vista is SLOOOW. At least it is on my laptop. I hate it when Vista plays 20 questions with me every time I try to move a file or delete a file. Too many things run in the background that I haven't figured out how to turn off yet. It's MS's way of trying to copy a Mac in my opinion. Also every program tries to go on line to update ( or check in with Big Brother ). That wears me out.... I don't want to spend half the day updating my computer every time I turn it on. I know I need to learn more about Vista, but I don't have the time.

XP is a work horse. Remember the blue screen of death that 98 used to give us. Not so with XP. It keeps chugging along.

You can have it .... Just my opinion.

[N2Harpz]

PS ... I like to reformat. ( about once a year ) It feels like wiping the slate clean and starting over. Once again.... It's just me. I'm hard headed I quess.

[Case]

Since Vista Service Pack 1 was released, I am even more happy with Vista. No probs here...

Case

[shawn_75]

I look at it like this, needing newer and faster hardware to achieve the same or worse performance as XP, no deal here. Vista has bad fuel economy...LOL.

Shawn