Pirated Aurora Graphics DVD's

[Capital Signs]

Where do I start so this does not turn into "lets bash chris" fest...

I learned about some "rapture" DVD's, volume 1, 2, and 3 for sale on another Sign Forum... We agreed on a price, I paid via paypal, and they just arrived about 30 minutes ago.

Excited as can be to begin doing some wraps with these aurora graphics dvd's, i opened the box, and to my surprise, The dvd covers look completely scanned, so do the labels on the dvd's themselves.

I dont want to assume, so i dont get "myself" into a heap of a mess and called out, so I would like to take the appropriate steps in order to resolve this issue.

What are the proper steps here that I need to take in order to report these.

1. Contact Aurora Graphics about seller?
2. Paypal for money back?
3. Return to seller/or Aurora Graphics?

In that order, or do I need do something else.

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

Thanks...

[Capital Signs]

P.S. I owned Rapture "Half Body Wraps Vol. 1" before I got these today, and that is how I compared the "real deal" to these rip offs that are apparent to me.

[DOGraphics]

Where do I start so this does not turn into "lets bash chris" fest...



Thanks...

Not With A Start Like That

IMHO

[SignBurst PCs]

I would call Dave Dorsey over at Aurora Graphics. I am sure he would be very interested in this.

[Marlene]

call Aurora graphics as suggested and also see what you can do to get your money back.

[Creative_Lance]

I can't believe people have the guts to do that!

[Capital Signs]

I'll call him, and let you know what happens.

[Capital Signs]

Especially on a SIGN forum... I'm disgusted, disgruntled, and well, kinda pissed

[SignBurst PCs]

Honestly, you probably wouldn't believe how many sign shops have asked me to install, use, and troubleshoot pirated software.

As a computer professional, there is no way I will even touch pirated software. What they do on their own computers is their own business. I think it is wrong (stealing) and I won't do it. Most of them still install it, they just install it themselves.

[Fred Weiss]

I commend you for bringing this up.

What to do:



Call Dave Dorsey at Aurora and report it.
Put in a dispute with PayPal.
Do not return the goods to the seller.


I would expect that Dorsey will want to prosecute the seller so he will want you to supply him with the product you received and any other documentation. If the seller is doing this on an ongoing basis then he would probably only need enough from you to make his own buy. You should decide how you want to handle this. If it were me (and I can't speak for Dave Dorsey) I would supply you with legal copies of whatever you bought as fair reward for your honesty and inconvenience and then arrange a pickup from you of the illegal copies.

[Capital Signs]

Thanks fred. I appreciate that. I talked with the other guy, greg, or name starting with a G... Anyways, Dave was out to lunch, I spoke it over with him, and he said Dave would call me when he got in. This is a "Federal" offense he said, interstatal mail fraud.

Ugh... This guy is in for a real treat!

[Steve C.]

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping: :clapping::clapping:

DO THE RIGHT THING!

Way to go Capital Signs!

[Grafix USA]

Yeah a dispute with PayPal after you talk to Aurora will get your money back. So you should be good and it would be a good gesture if Aurora replaced your copies. Let us know how it goes.

[houseofgrafix]

Just send me the cds

[Capital Signs]

Why would I send you the cd's? They are dvd's. I dont have any cd's to send.

Either way, they will be going to aurora graphics. Not House Of Graphix.

:)

[DOGraphics]

Just send me the cds

Idiots

Unless you were kidding oh course

[Capital Signs]

I'm sure he was kidding

[300mphGraphics]

Yeah a dispute with PayPal after you talk to Aurora will get your money back. Don't bet on it.

[gvgraphics]

PayPal looks at proof of delivery for their dispute policy. There is a good chance you wont get the money back. But if you can get Dave to contact them on the issue it just might work in your favor.

[Capital Signs]

Hmm... I guess. I dont know if it would be fair of me to ask for them to send me out legit copies. If he offered, then I would take it, but I dont know about asking him for some. (As a reward persay as fred said)

[Fred Weiss]

For the PayPal part of this, I would gather any documentation that relates to the software being legal versions. Screen shots of the seller's ad for example. I would guess PayPal would side with you if you can demonstrate fraudulent claims on the part of the seller.

If you didn't ask and the seller never said they were legitimate copies, then you may have a problem.

[mountainmang]

what price did you pay for the dvd's? i mean, if they were at a huge discount from the list price you had to at least think for a second whether they might be counterfeit or not.

[gators2001]

they was 100.00 a cd sorry DVD what ever he had to know they was counterfit. I also talked to the guy by email When he offered me bad wrap for 600.00 knew that was not for real. If its that cheap gurantee it not to be real.

[Gino]

If you didn't ask and the seller never said they were legitimate copies, then you may have a problem.



That's the key. :thumb:

He said, she said, they said won't cut it here. You need to find evidence that he/she purposely fooled you into buying pirated software. Otherwise, it could easily become a pissing contest. Your stating that you run across them and agreed on a price is a little fishy. Did the price seem a little odd or did you jump on a very good price.

Sometimes it pays to do a little investigative work ahead of time.... to help prevent these things from happening.

Is this a legitimate vendor or just someone selling software ??

[Capital Signs]

Got to love it! Price has nothing to do with this. He told me they were legitimate copies, and that they came in their respective cases.

I did think they were somewhat inexpensive, but I did give him the benefit of the doubt.

Once again, Aurora graphics will receive these dvd's and told me they will do what is necessary to make sure this does not happen in the future with this particular person.

[Mason]

Got to love it! Price has nothing to do with this. He told me they were legitimate copies, and that they came in their respective cases.

I did think they were somewhat inexpensive, but I did give him the benefit of the doubt.

Once again, Aurora graphics will receive these dvd's and told me they will do what is necessary to make sure this does not happen in the future with this particular person.

So youre basically tossin away your dough, that sucks

[zmatalucci]

jesus, now your screwing with calvins copyright!
Joke of course!:beer

[Capital Signs]

I knew there was going to be a calvin comment... LOL. I did it to be funny.

Anywho, I talked to dave. He told me he is going to prosecute to the fullest of this clown, and that he will aid me and retreiving my moneys from Paypal... Along with him contacting paypal.

He said, "I want to make SURE he does not profit from this transaction"

He thanked me, and told me he would be giving me "legit copies" of these DVD's as well.

Thanks Dave, you rock. He has also read all of these threads, and the thread where it was already posted. The post has been removed after contacting the other site admin.

Thanks guys for your support.

[Day Sign Co]

Good for you, Dave sounds like a real stand up guy,just like Fred

[Capital Signs]

:)

[houseofgrafix]

I'm sure he was kidding

:banghead:

Really.. you think?

[Fuzzbuster]

Why not buy them from aurora to begin with


To be fair to everyone who pays FULL PRICE for AURORA stuff

I think aurora `s being realy realy nice sending new original copies for trade on fakes
considering they never got a dime...............................nuf said

[Bigdawg]

Way to go Chris on how this was taken care of.:toasting:

[cOrKinSA]

Why not buy them from aurora to begin with...
To be fair to everyone who pays FULL PRICE for AURORA stuff...
Hey many businesses start and fail all the time.
Why not buy what they will never use anymore?

[Sign Works]

I have seen many times were people were selling this software and in the description it said "New, Opened but Never Used" Dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure out what these clowns are doing.

[Deaton Design]

You did the right thing. Its a shame things like this happen, buts its a reality.

[Capital Signs]

Case is closed on this. Appropriate action was taken. As Corkinsa stated, many business start up, purchase things, then never use them. That may have been the case, I dont know. Unfortunately it was not. Dave is going to prosecute this individual to the fullest.

[GregT]

Way to be a stand-up guy! Props to you.

[S. Sexton]

I talked Jarod Bubeck B&G Kustomz (thebubecks07@yahoo.com) about the same disks and was assured they where originals with original cases. I will recieve Tuesday my disks. Looks like I will be contacting paypal also.

If I wouldnt have strayed from 101 this would have never happen.

[Fred Weiss]

A couple of related notes.

It was discussed here a while back, so for those among you who care, be advised that all Aurora Graphics products forbid the transfer of the license to any third party. Buying used software gains you access to the images but you are buying just that ... access without permission or licensed rights.

We used to be a dealer for Aurora Graphics while also being a developer of digital art ourselves. We had a fundamental disagreement though over including user guides with such products. Aurora does not include printed user guides and only recently began making PDFs available at their website. We always include printed user guides ... for two reasons:

1. It completes the product and adds usability and value to it.

2. It can and is used as a barrier against illegal duplication and redistribution.

A lot of our marketing is by telephone contact. I can't begin to tell you the amount of customers we spoke with after selling an Aurora product who were angry with us about the lack of any reasonable way to know what they actually had purchased a license for. Some we spoke with had it sitting on a shelf six months later unused.

From my perspective, I believe that Aurora's products are currently the most illegally duplicated art products on the market. Users recognize that they can get most of their money back by archiving the art on another disk or their hard drives and then selling the original disk(s). So that's what they do. I would guess that for every legal copy licensed there is a spawn of at least ten resales as each buyer does the same thing.

So this has three points ... again for those among you who care:



Buying used software may not grant you the rights you think you are getting. With software, possession means nothing. License rights means everything.
Buying software without adequate documentation, legally or otherwise, may stand as a barrier to you receiving reasonable value for your investment.
Aurora Graphics has contributed heavily to their own problem by not protecting their artwork with documentation that would serve to make illegal duplication a more difficult thing to do.

[Techman]

ya,, and if a person is pissed off at an author.. he feels justified in in some kind of revenge tactic..

[The Sign Dude]

Hey Capital is the guys name Jerod and is he from Arizona?

[Capital Signs]

I was not aware of this, nor am I taking advantage of my "ignorance" of this issue. If I would have researched this better, which I am taking full responsibility for for "not" having researched this... I would have not had made any purchase of this software.

Thanks.

[S. Sexton]

I was not aware of this, nor am I taking advantage of my "ignorance" of this issue. If I would have researched this better, which I am taking full responsibility for for "not" having researched this... I would have not had made any purchase of this software.

Thanks.

I think you are taking advantage of Aurora.

[S. Sexton]

A couple of related notes.

It was discussed here a while back, so for those among you who care, be advised that all Aurora Graphics products forbid the transfer of the license to any third party. Buying used software gains you access to the images but you are buying just that ... access without permission or licensed rights.

We used to be a dealer for Aurora Graphics while also being a developer of digital art ourselves. We had a fundamental disagreement though over including user guides with such products. Aurora does not include printed user guides and only recently began making PDFs available at their website. We always include printed user guides ... for two reasons:

1. It completes the product and adds usability and value to it.

2. It can and is used as a barrier against illegal duplication and redistribution.

A lot of our marketing is by telephone contact. I can't begin to tell you the amount of customers we spoke with after selling an Aurora product who were angry with us about the lack of any reasonable way to know what they actually had purchased a license for. Some we spoke with had it sitting on a shelf six months later unused.

From my perspective, I believe that Aurora's products are currently the most illegally duplicated art products on the market. Users recognize that they can get most of their money back by archiving the art on another disk or their hard drives and then selling the original disk(s). So that's what they do. I would guess that for every legal copy licensed there is a spawn of at least ten resales as each buyer does the same thing.

So this has three points ... again for those among you who care:



Buying used software may not grant you the rights you think you are getting. With software, possession means nothing. License rights means everything.
Buying software without adequate documentation, legally or otherwise, may stand as a barrier to you receiving reasonable value for your investment.
Aurora Graphics has contributed heavily to their own problem by not protecting their artwork with documentation that would serve to make illegal duplication a more difficult thing to do.


Thanks Fred for the info not that I havent read it here before. I had forgot about reading this before. It will be etched into my brain now hard leason learned.

Steve

[Fuzzbuster]

Hey many businesses start and fail all the time.
Why not buy what they will never use anymore?

Selling print using pirated software is just the same as stealing.
I for one insist on purchasing ALL software from licenced dealers or directcly with all licence aggrements.

Our corporate customers would fly the coupe if we did anythng else.

Not to mention the fact that software companies spend endless amounts of R & D, time and money to produce the software we all use every single day to make a living.

saving the few bucks to chance the software being pirated isn`t worth it for me

not to mention the lawsuits that could happen if a design went out and produced on pirated software.I couldn`t sleep at night knowing every single piece of my work was done(design or print) illegaly

NOT WORTH IT!!!

[cOrKinSA]

I think you have your logical wires crossed somewhere.
I am with you on how you feel about Pirated Software but just because "Capitol" saw a good deal doesn't mean he knew that it was pirated. Who on earth would attempt to take such a risk. I know he wouldn't.
Example: I bought a Geo Knight DK16 for half the price as a distributor because of for some unforeseen situations the seller was going through some problems. I didn't take food from anyones mouth with that deal.

[rcook99]

cOrKinSA
PhD

I with ya on the heat press. I bought a brand new INSTA 228 digital swinger from a linen store in Queens that never used it for less than half price. It was on ebay, pickup only, he bought it do print some copyrighted logos on linen until he found out he could not get the rights to do it so he listed it on ebay. It has been 2 years and still works perfectly.

There are RARE instances where people just want to get rid of S#$T and will let it go because they need the money.

[Fuzzbuster]

I agree their will be a few rare instances that SOFTWARE will become available for a great "DEAL" that someone cant pass up but... i always say if it`s too good to be true it probably is.

You guys do what you want... by all means...

MY OPINION differs that`s all

Put it this way...

I`ve never had any problems as discribed in this thread with my software or licencing buying direct ,regardless of price.

[Kevin T]

Buying used hardware is totally different from buying used software. EULA are not in place on hardware like a heatpress, cutter, laminator or printer. But they certainly are to varying degrees on all software. You're comparing 2 totally different things.

If you know the software cost $1000 and someone is offering it for $500 on Ebay don't alarms go off for you? I wonder how many people buy that bootleg crap and if it works just stay quiet about it. But if it doesn't work, or they feel ripped off, all of sudden a sense of moral indignation takes over. hahahaha As far as I'm concerned if you want to buy software through unofficial sources you roll the dice and take your chances. Don't whine about it when you get pinched.

I've been offered everything from Onyx Production House to CS3 Premium and everything in between, it's never seemed worth it to me. Software is a cost of doing business, an expensive one sometimes. Get the real deal and make it possible for the creative people who produce these works to continue to do so.

That doesn't mean you can't get deals elsewhere. I bought 500 4' x 8' sheets of 4 mil coroplast last year for $2 a sheet, now that's a deal and the software police aren't going to be knocking.

Glad you're getting your issue resolved.

[Day Sign Co]

You can get good deals here from time to time,not software or cd's mainly machining type stuff,I occasionally browse for cnc routers
http://www.dovebid.com/Default.asp?bhcp=1

[Fuzzbuster]

[quote=Kevin T;364720]Buying used hardware is totally different from buying used software. EULA are not in place on hardware like a heatpress, cutter, laminator or printer. But they certainly are to varying degrees on all software. You're comparing 2 totally different things.

If you know the software cost $1000 and someone is offering it for $500 on Ebay don't alarms go off for you? I wonder how many people buy that bootleg crap and if it works just stay quiet about it. But if it doesn't work, or they feel ripped off, all of sudden a sense of moral indignation takes over. hahahaha As far as I'm concerned if you want to buy software through unofficial sources you roll the dice and take your chances. Don't whine about it when you get pinched.

I've been offered everything from Onyx Production House to CS3 Premium and everything in between, it's never seemed worth it to me. Software is a cost of doing business, an expensive one sometimes. Get the real deal and make it possible for the creative people who produce these works to continue to do so.

That doesn't mean you can't get deals elsewhere. I bought 500 4' x 8' sheets of 4 mil coroplast last year for $2 a sheet, now that's a deal and the software police aren't going to be knocking.


Guess i`m not alone in my thinking:rolleyes:

[Kevin T]

[quote=Kevin T;364720]Buying used hardware is totally different from buying used software. EULA are not in place on hardware like a heatpress, cutter, laminator or printer. But they certainly are to varying degrees on all software. You're comparing 2 totally different things.

If you know the software cost $1000 and someone is offering it for $500 on Ebay don't alarms go off for you? I wonder how many people buy that bootleg crap and if it works just stay quiet about it. But if it doesn't work, or they feel ripped off, all of sudden a sense of moral indignation takes over. hahahaha As far as I'm concerned if you want to buy software through unofficial sources you roll the dice and take your chances. Don't whine about it when you get pinched.

I've been offered everything from Onyx Production House to CS3 Premium and everything in between, it's never seemed worth it to me. Software is a cost of doing business, an expensive one sometimes. Get the real deal and make it possible for the creative people who produce these works to continue to do so.

That doesn't mean you can't get deals elsewhere. I bought 500 4' x 8' sheets of 4 mil coroplast last year for $2 a sheet, now that's a deal and the software police aren't going to be knocking.


Guess i`m not alone in my thinking:rolleyes:

Nope:wink: