Free Contributing or Merchant Subscription Offer

[Fred Weiss]

Got some knowledge you'd like to share?

Signs 101 is launching a continuing campaign to build a library of articles and tutorials. So we'd like to invite any member to participate is writing and submitting these items to us for publication here. As stated this is a continuing project, so the following offer is open until we say otherwise.

Articles and tutorials do not have to be highly polished gems. We'll clean up things like spelling, grammar, picture placement, formatting, etc. They do need to be useful and of interest and they need to be well researched, accurate and understandable.

Topics will cover a broad range and the format submitted can vary from a simple Word document to a Flash movie or a WMV with audio. Screen shots with captions are a great plus. Topics can be very basic to highly advanced.

Here's how it would work:


Submit your article or tutorial to me by email attachment to the address in my signature.
If we want to publish it, we'll respond back with an offer of x number of months awarded to you for either a CM or MM subscription. If you're already a subscriber, the offer would be added onto your subscription.
The amount of the offer will directly reflect our opinion of the value of the article or tutorial in terms of depth, detail, research, accuracy and overall value of the material to members of Signs 101.
If we aren't sure or don't want to publish it as is, we will respond with questions, suggestions for additional content or editing, or we will let you know, in as pleasant a way as possible, that we're not interested in publishing it ... hopefully with no hurt feelings.
If you get an offer and accept it, we will immediately add to or create a subscription for you. You will be granting us all rights to the article or tutorial in return. You will be credited as the author when it is published.

Questions? Comments? Post them here or contact Bigdawg or me by PM or email.

[iSign]

what if it is already posted elsewhere. Can we grant you unlimited rights, but not exclusive rights?

[Mason]

Im on board

[D2S]

Also could it be part of the business side of things?

[Rollie]

Great idea Fred! I like where that's going.
Kinda like Filter Forge then.

[mystysue]

cool idea Fred..

[Fred Weiss]

what if it is already posted elsewhere. Can we grant you unlimited rights, but not exclusive rights?

I wouldn't quibble about that providing you have the right to grant to Signs 101.

[Fred Weiss]

Also could it be part of the business side of things?

Absolutely. Business ... legal ... ethics ... financial. Our criteria is that it have some connection to the profession of sign making.

[Checkers]

What about information that was already contributed and to be shared with everyone, but now is accessible by subscription only?


Checkers

[Gino]

What about information that was already contributed and to be shared with everyone, but now is accessible by subscription only?


Checkers


Very valid question.............. :thankyou:

[Fred Weiss]

What about information that was already contributed and to be shared with everyone, but now is accessible by subscription only?


Checkers

I have sent you a PM with a reward offer. If there is an objection to the move from open to premium forums, that is a different matter and the article can be removed if that is your preference.

[300mphGraphics]

I have sent you a PM with a reward offer. If there is an objection to the move from open to premium forums, that is a different matter and the article can be removed if that is your preference.Question, either the reward offer is accepted and the article "contributed and to be shared with everyone" stays premium, or it gets removed all together? Or just put back where it was originally intended?

If you'll remember, this very valid question has been asked before but "no one has complained yet" was the answer given.

[Fred Weiss]

Question, either the reward offer is accepted and the article "contributed and to be shared with everyone" stays premium, or it gets removed all together? Or just put back where it was originally intended?

If you'll remember, this very valid question has been asked before but "no one has complained yet" was the answer given.

I don't recall the specific quote you cite but it would be easy enough to sort out by moving a post or thread that the member wanted kept in an open forum to any of the forums which are not being archived after one year to the premium forums.

So for example, if a thread was started in Sales, Marketing & Pricing which is a discontinued open forum and was moved to the premium forum of the same name, then, at the original thread starter's request the thread could be moved to a forum such as General Signmaking Topics and earmarked not to be moved from there in the future.

This is something we are willing to do for any thread which originated prior to June 1, 2008. Any thread started after that time will have it's ultimate destination determined by which forum it resides in.

Most of the forums located in Signmaking are affected by the rotation to premium forums after one year. The Open Signmaking Forums is where lots of information resides that many members do not wish unregistered visitors to be able to access. So the policy was put in place to ultimately protect these forums with a shield of privacy.

I realize that some here are suspicious and/or resentful of of these changes. So let me say this ...

The motivation to have premium resources at Signs 101 to provide revenues for operating and improving the site is evidenced by the Articles and Tutorials forums. On their own, they will provide enough value to achieve the goal of attracting subscription members.

The motivation to have premium forums is motivated by the issue of privacy. There is a real need to shield industry specific information from general viewing. You can agree with that or not but it is going to be built into our structure going forward. Tying it into subscription membership is simply the most practical way to administer it.

The motivation to restrict access and limit discussion in the Classified Forums is primarily past abuse. When there aren't enough hours in the day to manage and moderate this forum, I see no reason to allow abuse in the Classified Forums to take up any of my time.

So there you have it. The new setup will make Signs 101 a better forum for achieving its goals and purposes and will also be more manageable. There is no desire on my part to misappropriate anyone's information previously contributed. So if you have threads you started that you wish earmarked or removed, contact me with your request and a link to the thread.

[300mphGraphics]

There is no desire on my part to misappropriate anyone's information previously contributed. Sorry, but that is what you are doing. If you have no desire to misappropriate it, you'd start fresh with the new forums and leave what was posted where it was, in the spirit and under the known rules in which it was posted. Leaving it up to a thread starter to remember his thread from 2.5 years ago, finding it, and putting it back where it was to begin with isn't too realistic. But you know that and I'm sure you're not expecting this will be too large an issue in your desire for content.

I really am surprised with so many on the board worried about their logos, fonts, and designs to be used for someone elses financial gain, that they're willing to let their knowledge be used in that way.

[jiarby]

So it goes like this...

1. Signs 101 Members contribute valuable content that attracts many members and lots of web traffic.
2. Forum proprietor moves the aforementioned valuable content behind lock & key and charges fees to access content that was previously accessible.
3. Proprietor proposes that if we contribute EVEN MORE free content he will pass judgement on it's value and grant the contributor TEMPORARY access to the free content that has already been provided.

Why slap the hand that is feeding you??

Any forum that is successful and is making ad revenue only has it's USERS thank for spending their time to share their knowledge and expertise. Anyone can register a domain name, install a php script, and hang out their shingle. The site itself is not what makes it special... it is the community of users.

I appreciate the work that goes into creating & maintaining a busy forum... I have done it in the past and found it to be a PITA. I agree that you can do whatever the heck you want with your forum.

How would I delete any content that I contributed that I no longer have access to myself??

[Bigdawg]

How would I delete any content that I contributed that I no longer have access to myself??

Let me or Fred know what tutorial or article you contributed that needs to be moved or removed.

[Techman]

Personally, I believe...
A definition comes to play.

There is a difference between general techniques and tips or tricks of the trade given in an open forum and an actual tutorial.

Tips and tricks of the trade are general open knowledge. Often they are passed on over and over through word of mouth or a post on a BB with no one's name attached to it. No one really owns title to any of them. Yes someone authored a post and that should be acknowledged. It could be their most valuable trick of the trade. But, actual ownership of that "post" goes to the BB.

A tutorial is something authored with the intent to pass on a specific way to do something. It takes more time to author a tutor than it takes to write up a post on a thread.

For example. There are several tutors written with a specific concept in mind. Some were given with a video or photos as well as a written or a verbal dialog that any one can use for a specific learning purpose. However the responsibility of the info provided still resides with the author. He alone gets the acclaim good or bad. To me they are more than a tip and trick. It took more than a few minutes to author them and post them. To me a tutor will have a value considerable more than a trick or tip.

Do we agree on this definition?

[Bigdawg]

That's why I was very specific in my reply. I agree with your definition, Techman.

[DOGraphics]

Sorry, but that is what you are doing. If you have no desire to misappropriate it, you'd start fresh with the new forums and leave what was posted where it was, in the spirit and under the known rules in which it was posted. Leaving it up to a thread starter to remember his thread from 2.5 years ago, finding it, and putting it back where it was to begin with isn't too realistic. But you know that and I'm sure you're not expecting this will be too large an issue in your desire for content.

I really am surprised with so many on the board worried about their logos, fonts, and designs to be used for someone elses financial gain, that they're willing to let their knowledge be used in that way.

Agreed

not that I have any

[Fred Weiss]

So it goes like this...

1. Signs 101 Members contribute valuable content that attracts many members and lots of web traffic.
2. Forum proprietor moves the aforementioned valuable content behind lock & key and charges fees to access content that was previously accessible.
3. Proprietor proposes that if we contribute EVEN MORE free content he will pass judgement on it's value and grant the contributor TEMPORARY access to the free content that has already been provided.

Why slap the hand that is feeding you??

Any forum that is successful and is making ad revenue only has it's USERS thank for spending their time to share their knowledge and expertise. Anyone can register a domain name, install a php script, and hang out their shingle. The site itself is not what makes it special... it is the community of users.

I appreciate the work that goes into creating & maintaining a busy forum... I have done it in the past and found it to be a PITA. I agree that you can do whatever the heck you want with your forum.

How would I delete any content that I contributed that I no longer have access to myself??

My opinion of what you are saying is that you are spinning this to make a point that is not accurate in the total context of what has been said and done. It simply supports your position while ignoring the overall situation as it existed before making these changes.

As to reviewing your own threads that you started, most are still in the open forums you put them in. Those from February to May of 2007 reside in their premium counterparts ... if any exist. If you wish to review them, I will be pleased to provide access for a day or two. Or, if you prefer, I can simply remove all posts you have made from Signs 101.

You have started 51 threads. About half of them reside in open forums. Among the premium forums we find such threads as Stouse Phone #? in Tips and Tricks. Do you want me to remove them, provide you access to them, or do nothing?

[jiarby]

I don't know if what I am doing is "spinning".... but I was stating my opinion.

I am curious about what I said that you consider to be "not accurate in the total context" and "ignoring the overall situation"

I am just one individual and my posting activity may not be representative of the average S101`er... but the CONCEPT is the point. I used to have access to posts that I do not anymore. It would take alot of "spinning" to convince me how I benefit from that.

The original post was to solicit members to contribute FREE content and you repay them by granting them temporary access to the content that they ALREADY had access to last week.

Certainly SPIN is what is required for THAT to make sense!


You have to expect to alienate a percentage of people while you change your forum model into a restricted access one... but you seem to be willing to go through that initial pruning. By a 3-1 margin the S101 members said that DON'T want a fee-to-access model so damn the torpedos and full speed ahead.

[iSign]

I think it's a shame to see some of the implications being made.
It's true that a lot of us spend a great deal of time here, besides Fred... but we spend it doind whatever we damn well please... and if that happens to be writing posts to help others... well, good for us, time well spent... we "gave" something for nothing (except for the rights to receive what hundreds of others are giving)

Fred puts his time in here doing what must be done, and when it must be done... & I'm sure a lot of us business owners who love our jobs, know that sometimes doing what must be done, when it must be done... is a job, and quite different than a hobby.

Those of us who like donating information to a sign forum, have in essence, already released that information to someone willing to take on the job of running a forum. All this rightious indignation about what was given freely going for someone elses financial gain is a bunch of BS that should embarras the people saying things like that, because I'm certainly embarrassed for you for those comments.

"Financial gain"? ...you're kidding right? ...more like minimal compensation for hours of WORK performed... and anyone who assumed "their" posts would always and forever belong to them, to edit, remove, or retain control over how the information was shared, withheld, or removed... give me a break... again I ask "you're kidding right"? You GAVE it already, and someone else is sharing it,. and paying to do so... and working to do so... you GAVE it already... therefore it ain't your's anymore... get over yourselves... Fred is being more than fair AND more than polite while under fire with these absolutely ridiculous BS claims & complaints!

Really... get over yourselves people!

[iSign]

By a 3-1 margin the S101 members said that DON'T want a fee-to-access model so damn the torpedos and full speed ahead.

you really don't get it huh?

The model change that poll was for IS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING!

[Creative_Lance]

I don't know if what I am doing is "spinning".... but I was stating my opinion.

I am curious about what I said that you consider to be "not accurate in the total context" and "ignoring the overall situation"

I am just one individual and my posting activity may not be representative of the average S101`er... but the CONCEPT is the point. I used to have access to posts that I do not anymore. It would take alot of "spinning" to convince me how I benefit from that.

The original post was to solicit members to contribute FREE content and you repay them by granting them temporary access to the content that they ALREADY had access to last week.

Certainly SPIN is what is required for THAT to make sense!


You have to expect to alienate a percentage of people while you change your forum model into a restricted access one... but you seem to be willing to go through that initial pruning. By a 3-1 margin the S101 members said that DON'T want a fee-to-access model so damn the torpedos and full speed ahead.
I know i'm not the admin to this forum but you're not happy when you don't have certain rights unless you pay, you changed your avatar to the current one! :rolleyes: and you're not happy when you can get rewarded or credited for something you do?? what does it take to make you happy???

[jiarby]

what does it take to make you happy???

Hot Cinnamon Rolls would do it.

I may be in a minority, but I never like it when something that was free last week costs money today. I don't mind restricting access to people with a certain post count, or verifiable business owners, or whatever to keep "secret" data private.

That's it.

[kgirl]

Parking at the beach use to be free

[300mphGraphics]

and anyone who assumed "their" posts would always and forever belong to them, to edit, remove, or retain control over how the information was shared, withheld, or removed... give me a break... again I ask "you're kidding right"? You GAVE it already, and someone else is sharing it,. and paying to do so... and working to do so... you GAVE it already... therefore it ain't your's anymore... get over yourselves...
To take information that was given under agreed upon circumstances, then remove it from those circumstances and profit from it, in my opinion is wrong. Flat out wrong. It can be legal to do it, and one can have the power to do it, but it's not right. The only right thing is to leave the information in the public domain, where it was intended by the donator.

Bah, this is all old news and off topic for this thread. If you feel like creating content for signs101 to profit from, here's your opportunity. I hope you feel well compensated for your efforts.

Wait, one more thing, on topic...
Here's how it would work:


Submit your article or tutorial to me by email attachment to the address in my signature.
If we want to publish it, we'll respond back with an offer of x number of months....

http://www.no-spec.com/

[Baz]

I think it's a shame to see some of the implications being made.
It's true that a lot of us spend a great deal of time here, besides Fred... but we spend it doind whatever we damn well please... and if that happens to be writing posts to help others... well, good for us, time well spent... we "gave" something for nothing (except for the rights to receive what hundreds of others are giving)

Fred puts his time in here doing what must be done, and when it must be done... & I'm sure a lot of us business owners who love our jobs, know that sometimes doing what must be done, when it must be done... is a job, and quite different than a hobby.

Those of us who like donating information to a sign forum, have in essence, already released that information to someone willing to take on the job of running a forum. All this rightious indignation about what was given freely going for someone elses financial gain is a bunch of BS that should embarras the people saying things like that, because I'm certainly embarrassed for you for those comments.

"Financial gain"? ...you're kidding right? ...more like minimal compensation for hours of WORK performed... and anyone who assumed "their" posts would always and forever belong to them, to edit, remove, or retain control over how the information was shared, withheld, or removed... give me a break... again I ask "you're kidding right"? You GAVE it already, and someone else is sharing it,. and paying to do so... and working to do so... you GAVE it already... therefore it ain't your's anymore... get over yourselves... Fred is being more than fair AND more than polite while under fire with these absolutely ridiculous BS claims & complaints!

Really... get over yourselves people!


Amen to that :thumb:

Just let the man do whatever he wants to do ... Its his site ... I am gratefull for his and others efforts. And if someone has a beef with it .. You know what to do ...

[Gino]

Parking at the beach use to be free

Ain't it the truth.....?? :clapping:


Air at gas stations used to be free.
Knuckle bones for dogs used to be free.
Directory assistance used to be free.
Television reception used to be free.




Dumb looks are the only free things available anymore.....:thumb:

[Baz]

In Quebec ... 911 calls on a person's cell phone will no longer be free!

[kgirl]

Dumb looks are the only free things available anymore.....:thumb:

haha...true

[Lunatic Taskbar]

and an abundance of stupid customers.. that seems free as well!

[511graphix]

In Quebec ... 911 calls on a person's cell phone will no longer be free!

I am with AT&T, and they charged me .70 for a 911. two diffrent times . in two diffrent states.

[Creative_Lance]

Hot Cinnamon Rolls would do it.
Make that order for 2 please :biggrin:

[Goatboy]

Here is what puts me off bout charge sites...I generally am here to answer questions. I'm not very new to signs and for the most part I try to be on the plus side for contribution to take from. I get that Fred should get help for his efforts. I've seen several sites like this grow to the point where it requires the actions we are seeing. WE are a community filled with all levels...infants to the aged and wise. I found 101 when signforums went to pay to play and I was grandfathered in for efforts shown. If I wanted to write a book and sell it...then I would go that route. Its a fine line you are walking Fred and I don't envy you. No matter the walk you take someone will be alienated. Thanks for the time you've given.

[creative]

Well......

Fred,

you should leave everything the way it was, then...THEN, start a new "paid subscription" forum with NEW stuff..

I guess... I don't know...

[Baz]

I dont believe much in retroactive crap. Only in health related lawsuits should that apply. Whatever was posted before Fred's anouncement should be left to whatever Fred wants to do with it.