Why should I upgrade?

[Steve C.]

I've been using Corel8 for a long time and it seems to do every thing I need it to. And I have heard that more recient versions have import/export problems that 8 does not have.
In another thread someone said that you can convert Corel outlines to Contours, and my Corel 8 does not have this option.
What Else am I Missing Out On?

[High Octane]

Honestly I think 8 is the most stable of all the versions..I am using 11 crrently but find myself going back to 8 often as it just seen to run smoother for me...It does everything I could ever want it to do.

[njsigns]

I found this link earlier today, and I was overwhelmed with excitement as I am not very proficient in Corel Draw (yet). There are some really cool movies in Quicktime that showcase many of the new features and how they are used by actually showing the new tools in action. I don't know what version 8 is capable of, but I like what I am seeing on this page so far (I have Corel Draw 12 suite)

http://movielibrary.lynda.com/html/modPage.asp?ID=75

I was so excited about this page as a tool for "newbies" I posted it earlier (Awesome Corel Draw 12 tutorials) but you might be able to see what you're missing out on (if anything) there as well too...

Gene :peace!:

[OldPaint]

corle 7 was the last true ONLY COREL. 8 and above all have a lot features from XARA incorperated in them. i used 8 for while, then 9, which had a few problenms that never seemed fixable. 10 had problems untill they added SP1 & SP2, which makes it a very solid corel. iam using 10 now.....12 is great for "printed" signage.

[Si Allen]

I still use Corel8...I also have Corel12 and use it to open some files from later versions, and save them back down to version 8.

[jimdes]

I have Corel Draw 8, 10 & 11 but stick with CD10 with SP1 & 2 . . . rock solid.

CD 11 shuts down in the middle of just about anything you try to do . . . sloppy, unstable program with no improvement over 10. Not to mention that 11 adds a gazillion nodes when you convert outlines or contours to objects.

[Steve C.]

Not to mention that 11 adds a gazillion nodes when you convert outlines or contours to objects.

Thats one thing I don't like about 8. It does the same thing. Before 8 I was using 4 and it did not have that problem.

[Bobby H]

CorelDRAW has had the habit of adding hundreds or thousands of control points to contour effect outlines (and other items like blends) for roughly a decade now. My memory is a little fuzzy about it, but I think I first starting seeing this behavior with CorelDRAW 6.

Earlier versions didn't create outline effects with quite so many control points. However, the accuracy of the effect wasn't very good. Obviously Corel chose the lesser of two evils with later releases, opting for an effect that often creates a simulated curves using hundreds of small straight line segments.

The "convert outline to object" operation can work well...sometimes. Sure, you'll get the benefit of outline effects with not so many control points. The trade off is the resulting contours often have some very strange node errors. I'll often see two or more nodes lined up over the same coordinate point. Naturally you would want to clean up this artifact but Corel's shape tool often won't allow you to select the overlapped points. The convert outline to object effect can also create wierd divits at certain corners. Strokes with rounded ends don't exactly have a perfectly rounded shape when the stroke is converted to an object. The ends get a little more squared off in appearance. Overall, you have a pretty good amount of clean up work to do when using that tool.

Depending on the task, some users could let those errors slide. But if you're taking those paths into applications to do 3D routing or other specialized tasks you'll risk having some bad errors cutting while cutting on expensive material. I want paths as clean as possible to ensure error-free G-code files are created.

In recent years, I have deferred to applications like Macromedia Freehand and Adobe Illustrator for producing outline effects on letters and other objects. The latest version of Illustrator (CS2) does an excellent job of creating outline effects with its Path Offset effect. It is a "live" effect you can go back and adjust until you "Expand" the appearance of the effect into a defined vector path. You can also expand strokes into vector paths in the same manner as Corel's "convert outline to object" command -but do so with much cleaner and accurate results.

The only drawbacks I've found with Illustrator's outlining effects is they necessitate using multiple layers. The effects consume the original paths, so you'll want to copy the source object to the clipboard and then "paste in front" on a new layer. On rare occaisions when expanding strokes into paths I'll get some overlaps that Illustrator can't eliminate with its pathfinder tools. That artwork will get sent to Freehand to get cleaned up by the remove overlap Xtra.

Some of my description sounds complicated. But getting the finished artwork takes far less time than just staying within Corel and trying to clean up the results of Corel's tools.

[OldPaint]

there is a setting in corel for the amount of nodes it uses.....illistrator compared to corel is like comaping GERBER GA 6 to SIGNLAB... singlab is so much easier...and better.

[Rick]

On the use of outlines to objects, that is one my mosts used tools.

In Illustrator, On the overlaps that do not unite, I just add a tiny box, select both, then unite and expand....viola'. I also like the expand Transparency when adding paths to dashed lines....by the way, did anyone understand Old Paints analogy....maybe I'm not organized enough to get it. :)

[Steve C.]

there is a setting in corel for the amount of nodes it uses.....

I have looked for such a setting and can't find. Can you tell us where to find it?

[Bobby H]

by the way, did anyone understand Old Paints analogy....maybe I'm not organized enough to get it. :)

I don't understand it either. My criticism of Corel isn't a completely negative judgment calling for people to get rid of it. But I think it is a clear fact Illustrator does a better job creating outline effects than CorelDRAW.

Corel still has some advantages, such as some easier to use vector object building tools and an artboard several times larger than Illustrator's. It's rare that I hit a limit where Flexi is the only place that I can put together a full size layout. That typically occurs only when I'm assembling complex building elevations larger than 100' X 100'.

[Bobby H]

I felt I should follow up my posts in this thread with a visual example of what I described in Corel's outline effect capability as compared to that of Illustrator and Freehand.

I attached three GIF images to this post, all portions of screenshots taken from CorelDRAW 9, Freehand 10 and Illustrator CS2. All had the same formula of artwork created. That "formula" was using the Adobe font Warnock Pro Titling, a font included with the AdobeCS2 package. The type was set at 100 points. Two outlines were offset from the original, at .05" and .075" widths.

In the Corel screenshot, you can see the contour effect applied adds a good number of control points to the two levels of outline paths. The number of points added is actually a lot fewer than what I usually see when it comes to Corel's contour effect. In addition, there are errors in how the outline was generated. Take a look at the upper counter on the "B" character. Certain sections that were supposed to be curved have been wrongfully rendered as straight lines.

By comparison Illustrator CS2 does about as perfect a job as possible with the Offset Path effect. There are few, if any, additional control points added than what the original source characters contain.

Freehand does a good job as well. However, getting the outline effect isn't so easy. You have to command the app to show the Xtra Operations toolbar and choose the expand stroke option from there. Once applied, you have to use the Remove Overlap Xtra to eliminate all the interior, overlapping paths. But the end result is just about as good, if not equal, to what Illustrator CS2 generates. FYI, AI CS2 also has the expand stroke (and even expand fill) features to accomodate those used to operations in FH.

[Steve C.]

Thanks everyone, for your suggestions and comments. I guess I will stay with my Corel 8 since there seems to be no real advantage in an upgrade. I have been convinced that I probably do need to get Illustrator as an alternative design program......eventually. BTW I would still like to know where that setting for node control is in Corel that OP spoke of.

[OldPaint]

there is a setting in corel for the amount of nodes it uses.....illistrator compared to corel is like comaping GERBER GA 6 to SIGNLAB... singlab is so much easier...and better.
GERBER GA6 is aPITA program so is illistrator, as both of these programs make the simplest things COMPLICATED.
COREL & SIGNLAB are both a lot simpler to use..so there is the analogy.
as for a node setting, for the concentration of nodes to a givin area....i think it was in corel 7-8 last time i saw it....go to help type in NODES and see if there is a node reduction...

[GraphixCALC]

This is a somewhat "hidden" function I discovered a while back - AUTO-REDUCE CURVE. This does exactly what you are after. You can select the whole shmoo and it will auto-reduce, but sometimes too much. So be careful.

The way to invoke this is to go to Tools, Customization, Commands, then go to All (Show All Items). Scroll down until you see the Auto-Reduce. You then have to make a blank toolbar or drag this pup over to an existing one if'n you want. Now you can either select all nodes or window select, then hit this guy and often times it works wonders. Like I said, watch the results cuz sometimes it takes too many away. Enjoy!

[Fred Weiss]

There are similar path cleanup tools in most graphics applications. Illustrator, Freehand and Streamline do similar things and can easily change the vector if you are not careful.

It seems to me the point is to use an application in the first place that doesn't generate a lot of extra nodes when it carries out various path modifications in the first place. That application is Illustrator.

On a related note, the only genuinely good automated path cleanup I have ever seen is in Fontographer. It was written by Altsys. I have never seen it carried forward by Macromedia. Great undiscovered and unappreciated treasures.

The thing that makes it work so well is the routine of inserting points (nodes) at "extrema" which is the place where they will be most effective. Anyone who has ever spent time using a tablet to trace glyphs learns that there are ideal places for points. Altsys knew this when they wrote the cleanup paths module in Fontographer.

[Bobby H]

GERBER GA6 is aPITA program so is illistrator, as both of these programs make the simplest things COMPLICATED.

I disagree. Illustrator's user interface is set up differently than that of Corel. Adobe has been building on their model for close to 20 years. It would be a very bad move on their part to ditch that just to copy Corel. You have to get used to using it. But I wouldn't characterize it as being a "PITA."

There are certain things I hate about CorelDRAW's interface. For instance, CDR's screen navigation controls stink. You have to go to the toolbars all the time to zoom in, zoom out and hand pan across artwork. In Illustrator (as well as Photoshop, Freehand and a number of other graphics apps) I can use the Ctrl, Alt and Spacebar keys to zoom in, zoom out and hand pan across artwork without having to go up and grab a toolbar function. I can hit the Tab key and hide all the rollups and toolbars and be free to work on a drawing until I need a different tool. It is a more efficient method (and arguably industry standard). Corel should work that into CorelDRAW.

This is a somewhat hidden function I discovered awhile back - AUTO REDUCE CURVE. This does exactly what you are after.

Yes, I have played around with the Auto Reduce curve function in CorelDRAW and found its results not very acceptable. The deletion of points would bow curves out of proper alignment with the original source object or provide even more unpredictable results. I have certainly never seen Corel's Auto Reduce function equal the outline effect results I get from Illustrator and Freehand (as seen in the screenshots I posted earlier).

[Scott Reynolds]

I agree with Bobby H. Illustrator has a very step learning curve. Once you learn it, it's easy. Like a lot of things, if you dont know how to use it, it could be scary.


Scotty :thumb:

[Techman]

For instance, CDR's screen navigation controls stink. You have to go to the toolbars all the time to zoom in, zoom out and hand pan across artwork.

Not true..

You can use the wheel mouse to zoom in instantly,, and you place the curser over the spot you want to zoom turn the wheel and it will zoom right there..

You may wish to set up your corel better.. You can hot key a load of functions as well..

Furthermore. Comparing corel draw 9,,, an old program against an updated CS Adobe product is really not a valid comparison. Even tho Corel 9 is still a very good program...

Corel is way easier to run the Illustrator. That is a well documented fact..
Techman

[Bobby H]

It is not a "well documented fact" Corel is way easier to use than Illustrator. That's just your opinion, possibly coming from what you're used to using in the workplace. I've known a lot of people who were used to Illustrator or Freehand and totally despised Corel when trying to use it.

Yes, there are some areas where Corel makes it easier to get certain things done. I prefer some of the path editing methods Corel offers since one can build up certain types of objects quickly and precisely. But there are other key areas where Corel comes up short. The zooming and hand panning methods are just one example.

I use the scrollwheel method (on occaision) in CorelDRAW. That still doesn't make up for the fact Corel cannot toggle the hand pan tool on/off like you can with Illustrator and several other graphics apps using the spacebar key. And the scrollwheel method isn't very precise either on zooming.

Although you can "hot key" a number of functions, they still don't behave as they should -with the hand pan tool deficiency being a big problem.

Comparing corel draw 9,,, an old program against an updated CS adobe product is not a valid comparison

I would invite anyone using CorelDRAW 10, 11 or 12 to show me outline effect quality that equals that of what I showed from the AI CS2 screenshot (or even the Freehand 10 screenshot for that matter). From what I've seen with CorelDRAW 12 (from demos) it behaves the same way -giving you lots of control points to make up for not so great floating point capability in the code.

[Steve C.]

This is a somewhat "hidden" function I discovered a while back - AUTO-REDUCE CURVE. This does exactly what you are after. You can select the whole shmoo and it will auto-reduce, but sometimes too much. So be careful.

Thanks for your response Chris. I did know about this function and Bobby H is right that it is very unpredictable.
When I select the shape tool, I have a custom tool bar that allows a lot of different tools including Auto Reduce. What I have to do is select all points that need to be curved and click....Curve, Smooth, Auto Reduce. It is rare that you can select all points in an object without really getting a mess. So it is a very tedious process to go through and make sure that you don't curve the wrong points. I have gotten pretty good at node editing. Sometimes it is unnecessary, but many times objects will not export because the high number of nodes increases the file size.

I do use the mouse wheel zoom function too, and I don't find Corel all that hard the navigate, thou I have no point of comparison since I have never used Illustrator.

I think it really boils down to...We all like what we are use to. In my experience, those who use both Corel and Illustration seem to like Corel better. That don't make it so.

[Bobby H]

When it comes to Corel's auto reduce capability, I have typically used a more selective method. For instance, on a contour effect resulting in lots of control points (mainly lots of straight line segments joined together to simulate a curve) I would grab the node editing shape tool, select all the points on the curve, convert them to curve points and then select the smooth point button on the tool bar. I would select all those control points again, hold down the shift key and then marquee de-select points I wanted to keep. I'd hit the delete key to get rid of the extraneous points. Usually the method would work pretty well. But it is time consuming.

I just find it take a lot less time to export an EPS file over into IllustratorCS2, apply the outline effect I need, then save the result as a legacy AI version 3 file and bring it back into CorelDRAW (if that's where I'm generating the finished work).

[GraphixCALC]

When it comes to Corel's auto reduce capability, I have typically used a more selective method. For instance, on a contour effect resulting in lots of control points (mainly lots of straight line segments joined together to simulate a curve) I would grab the node editing shape tool, select all the points on the curve, convert them to curve points and then select the smooth point button on the tool bar. I would select all those control points again, hold down the shift key and then marquee de-select points I wanted to keep. I'd hit the delete key to get rid of the extraneous points. Usually the method would work pretty well. But it is time consuming.

I just find it take a lot less time to export an EPS file over into IllustratorCS2, apply the outline effect I need, then save the result as a legacy AI version 3 file and bring it back into CorelDRAW (if that's where I'm generating the finished work).

That's what I've found works best in many situations too. However, some nodes go nuts if you convert them to curves, so you still have to sometimes be selective with this sequence as well. I agree that Corel produces WAY too many nodes on contours, and when you zoom in close, they're sometimes really chunky looking - especially around sharply rounded parts of the object. I only used Illy a little bit and found it cumbersome - but that's just me. I can't say that I know Corel inside out, but I am very comfortable with the majority of it's features.

As far as the zoom/pan issue, I do like how the zoom works with the wheel mouse. I don't like the fact that you have to select a toolbar or menu item to get "full zoom". I have custom toolbars to aid in that, but I'll tell you what the cat's *** would be for this or any program - a Spaceball. A Spaceball is like a second mouse that you use with your other hand, but is typically used in 3D drawing apps like Unigraphics, Catia, Mechanical Desktop, SolidWorks, etc. Since I just came from a mechanical design engineer career, I know this product quite well. I actually bought one of these for when I was using SolidWorks at home. New, they are about $500, I got a new one off ebay for $200. Bummer is, it is not supported by most apps that we use in this industry. I've inquired to them about supporting Corel, Illy and others, but doesn't sound like they will be. It does work with Photoshop, but that's about all I see for apps we'd use. Anyway, here is a link to their site just as an FYI. Maybe if they had enough inquiries, they'd entertain making drivers...
http://www.3dconnexion.com/spaceball5000.htm