Plotter suggestions?

[Jillbeans]

I have been running a Gerber 4E via GA 6.2 since 1998.
(actually I first got a 4B then bought a used 4E about 6 years ago)
Anyway, I am sooo sick of how slow this thing is.
Even though it is a workhorse.
I am sick of d!cking around with new blades not cutting well no matter how much or how little weight I add.
I think my 4E is on its last leg.
I have to manually stack something bigger than 13.25" because for some reason the 4E only cuts the first half of a panelled output. The 4B did this fine, but my 4B's axis is screwed up.

I do not want a big plotter. I could see going 24" but I wouldn't want any bigger. I am short and I could not handle lifting big rolls of media, and they also cost more. I do cut pounce patterns on an almost weekly basis, so I am thinking friction-fed may not be an option. I do not cut sandblast stencil.
If I had to, I could always revert to the 4E. I guess I could save it for pouncing too.

I don't want a cheap piece of crap, but I can't afford $10K for an Envision (my dream plotter...sigh) I don't want a printer.
I don't want some FleaBay cutter with no dongle.
I want to go new because of warranty and tech support.
I am open to any suggestions and am curious as to what people would recommend.
Why do you like a certain brand? Why do you not?
What is cutting via Corel like? I have Corel 12.
How is the tech support for your particular plotter?
:thankyou:
Love....Jill

[Sign-Man Signs]

We have a couple Jill. I would opt for the 24". Most companies carry 24 inch rolls a a good price. I have a Graphtec CE5000 and is a very good machine. I also use Sign Warehouses VE Endura cut plotters and they are real work horses. My oldest is 6 years old. Can't tell you about tech support, I've never had any problems with either. The 24 inch, you can cut up to about 22.5 and is easy for one person to handle. They all claim to cut up to 50 fifty foot on a single track cut but that's BS. I have cut up to 16' on each with no problems. I use Flexi but have cut from Corel 12. If you buy the Graphtec, they send you a program called ROBO Cut to use with the plotter.

[coyote]

Hi Jill: I replaced my sturdy and slow 4B with a Graphtec CE500-got a 15" since I was replacing a 15". It's lightning fast compared to Gerbie and cost under 1K which I thought was incredibly cheap. It's paid for itself many times over. It doesn't track as well as the sprocket fed plotter, but I am learning how to overcome that and it hasn't been a huge problem.I don't know about how it does with really heavy materials like sand blast tape (we hand cut that).
Good luck.
Carol

[Sign Up Graphics]

A 30'' new Graphtec will do the JOB!!! :thumb:

[gnatt66]

my plotter is a rebadged graphtec from SW.

24" and came bundled with lxi master for $1395...great deal i think. Doesn't have the ARMS(for using as a contour cutter) but it's really a graphtec.

[trakers]

Because of reccomendations from this forum I purchased a Graphtec CE5000-60 two years ago. Man, I'm I ever glad I didn't cheap out. This has been a great machine.

I have only contacted Tech support a couple times with basic questions (I have had no problems with the machine) but both times I have been satisfied with their help.

A friend of mine recently upgraded from a loud, noisy, problematic cat cutter to the QE-60 Plus Signwarehouse cutter which, from my inspection, appears to be an *exact* clone of my Graphtec except you have to pay extra for the automatic registration sensor. I think SW has the Graphtec for about $1,500 bare.

If you feed the material correctly the Graphtec tracks like it is on rails. You can eek out a 23" cut, but like someone said above 22.5" is about where I usually stop. I am still amazed to this day this thing can start cutting go eight feet in one direction and eight feet back and the cut lines up exactly.

Were I to buy again I would buy another Graphtec.
.

[signage]

I have a Graphtec and love it! They do track well if the material is loaded straight and cut straight to begin with. When I was looking I knew of both Graphtec and Summa from my day with pen plotters (early 80's) so when I was looking I went with them knowing that a cutter is basically a pen plotter with a blade inserted and adjustments for pressure. I will have to check to see if it will do a pounce operation, but the Graphtec also has what is called tangential emulation which works great for cutting heavier materials and smaller things. I also have not had to use tech support! Also Pioneer is a seller for Graphtec which may be a plus for you!

[bob]

Whichever you buy, go for at least a 30". While a 24" is adequate, with a 30" things seem to lay out better on the media. When I had a 24" I was always trying, with varying degrees of success, to shoehorn images onto the media. With the 30" I can't recall the last time it was an issue.

As far as brand, stick with Graphtec, Summa, etc. As long as you stick with the top brands choosing one over the other is Yet Another Ford vs Chevy debate.

[Jim Doggett]

Definitely, Summa or Graphtec. They've been behind the curve in the printer market and have uniquely put emphasis on improving vinyl cutters ... they're both lightyears beyond the competition, I beleive.

Price-performance leaders, IMO, are SignWarehouse Vinyl Express Q (Graphtec pro series in SignWarehouse drag) and Summa's SummaCut-R ... the internals and main cutting and tracking components are similar to the S Class, so I don't think going top-end is necessary with Summa.

My $0.02,

Jim

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

Jill,

I have a Summa D60 (24" model with OPOS)...and Love it...

Years ago, I was working at a large production sign company that had a gerber 4b, and it was to the point that cutting material the stroke widths of each letter was different, and they would end up having to recut a bunch of material...And they were sending their vinyl out of house to get cut, which was a huge cost. I did a cost comparison, and discovered that thier cutting costs, we could buy a nice 48" plotter in about a year. I convinced them, and they tasked me to find the right one. I looked at them all, graphtec, roland, summa... several others...

Summa is the one that I decided on, and they purchased it, with the opos system. It paid for itself in 5 months (cutting in house vs. sending out to get cut).

When I went out on my own, I called Summa, and purchased. No other thoughts.

It is one of the straightest tracking machines that I have ever used. Tech support, no question about it is top notch. I have only called a couple of times, and being in CA, I had to leave a call back # and they called be back, usually in a couple of hours. The only problem that I have ever had is I have moved my computer, and when I hooked it back up, it didn't see the plotter. I had to call them, and they directed me to reinstall the software (a proprietary program called winplot that works with corel to cut directly to summa). But they sent me to thier website to get the latest and greatest. The only complaint that I have with the program, it won't add weed lines, but it will do a weed box.

[ovrcafnatd]

Whichever you buy, go for at least a 30". While a 24" is adequate, with a 30" things seem to lay out better on the media. When I had a 24" I was always trying, with varying degrees of success, to shoehorn images onto the media. With the 30" I can't recall the last time it was an issue.

As far as brand, stick with Graphtec, Summa, etc. As long as you stick with the top brands choosing one over the other is Yet Another Ford vs Chevy debate.


Agreed!
when my old plotter died, I opted for the 30" and
those 6" made a world of difference........see
size DOES matter (sorry boys lol)

Graphtec FC7000

I've pen plotted with no issues with the friction fed.
We pounce with a wheel.
but, I still can't see it being a prob.
This machine rocks Jill!
:rock-n-roll:

[Mainframe]

Jill I think you are a perfect candidate for the sign warehouse deal mentioned above, I have an old Roland cam 24 I use & love but if I had to replace it I would buy the lxi master, -1395 is a great deal for a good plotter-Bill

[trakers]

If you do the SW deal be sure to get the Master PLUS software.

[Craig Sjoquist]

my 2 cents ... I'm looking at a.... Foison..cutter 24" $1,100...800 grams downward cutting force ... comes with software ... Signlab. buying from Accugraphics has good local support / reviews & very versital cutter

I was setting my sites on a Roland ..cause I also use Coreldraw X3 ..but since I'll be lucky to come up with anything over $500 at one time....free from bills to pay, price is a main factor


http://www.foison.net.cn/en/home%20new/home.htm ... heres a site on it

[Jim Doggett]

$1,100 seems spendy for a Chinese cutter. I looked into all of them when I was the marketing guy for SignWarehouse ... most were cheaply-made plastic and pretty poor tracking. One of the better ones, Redsail, has far more metal parts and a much lower fail-rate. It's marketed on eBay only (Vinyl Express R Series) and is slightly more expensive than other Chinese cutters on eBay. But still, with shipping, Flexi OEM software, clipart, starter supplies, plotter cover --- the works --- it's $399 for the R24, 24 inch model. link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230342948174) And this is at the higher end of the Chinese cutter price range. At $1,100, I think someone is cutting a fat hog.

I'd be hesitant to suggest a Chinese cutter, unless just starting out, cheaply, or as a low-cost back-up.

An established shop, with higher volumes, should consider a better solution, in my opinion. I think it would be especially hard to go from Gerber cutter-quality to a Chinese-made cutter.

Just my opinion,

Jim

[trakers]

Like I mentioned I had a friend that had one of the kitty cutters. It didn’t track worth a heck and sometimes would ruin whole sheets of material when it went nuts cutting diagonally across the entire sheet. (buffer overflow we guessed).

And also it used stepper motors and was LOUD and I mean couldn’t talk in the same room loud. My Graphtec makes more noises lifting the pen than the X-Y motors do.

I can't see Jill being happy with one of the kitty cutters.

I almost bought one back then, almost, because of the price but I am SO, SO glad I didn’t now.

[Sign Works]

Another vote for Graphtec here, my FC4100 75 has been in daily use for the past 10 years without any issues ever, great machine, fast & accurate.
Jill, Also I designate a seperate holder & blade for cutting metalized & reflective films, this way my vinyl only blade keeps it's sharp edge and lasts literally for years cutting multiple rolls of vinyl daily. I remember dinkin around endlessly with settings and constantly changing blades on the old Ioline cutter, man I sure don't miss that.

[Conor Knoxx]

certainly a topic that has been debated many times here!

Personal experience:
I recently upgraded from a 36 inch "chinese" cutter to a Summa 48inch.
WOW!
How I could have mindlessly suffered so long I just don't know!

Quiet, straight, fast, easy to use, did I say quiet?.. :glasses:

Now, if you don't print, you will have little use for the OPOS system - though its loads of fun just to watch it work, lol.

Summa's website showed the stand and media catch baskets as "options" but they threw mine in at no charge. Graphtec does seem the "popular choice" around here these days, you likely have to decide for yourself. I wouldn't even consider anything but a Summa or Graphtec though.

I too would go to the 30 inch though, just to leave a bit of breathing room, even though your media might all be 24inch ( eg: I'd prefer to put a 28 x 8 inch "scrap" in sideways, rather then length-wise, since its easier to keep straight. ) Its also the smallest Summa makes now.

Oh yeah, and the Summa is black, which is WAY cooler than beige or ivory..
:cool1:

http://summastore.com/cutter_detail.php?product_id=28&sess_id=f1791dbed25d49d87302d9055ffb4ebe

[Jillbeans]

Bumping this again.
I have about $1200 to spend (I think)
I need something that will work on a Windows XP machine.
I'd like a 24".
I will save my nearly dead 4E for pounce patterns but I have had it up to here with this plotter.

[Pat Whatley]

Like Bob said, stick with a Summa or Graphtec and you'll get almost identical results...everyone is going to be loyal to brand they have. Stay away from Rolands...we went through a boatload of them. They don't track very well...I was always lucky to be able to cut 10' at a time. I'm currently running all Summa D60 plotters and have routinely cut entire rolls of vinyl without having to reset the vinyl. They've been virtually trouble free and a great addition to the shop.

By the way, don't be afraid of a used plotter. They pop up on ebay all the time and once the price gets above the $299 Chinese plotters bidding typically stops. There's a 24" Graphtec on there right now that we were considering but I decided to go ahead and get a 48" plotter this time.

[FatCat]

I know the main consensus seems to refer to Graphtec or Summa, but I've had a Roland for just under 3 years. Has been a very reliable machine, tracks straight and is very quiet. I'm sure you could find a used GX-24 within your budget, and IMHO you might even find a used GX-300 or CX-300 (30") which is a more robust machine and gives you the added versatility of using up to 30" rolls.

[cgsigns_jamie]

I will save my nearly dead 4E for pounce patterns but I have had it up to here with this plotter.

Jill,

Some of the newer plotters can pounce as well. I have a 30" Allen Datagraph plotter that I only use for pounce patterns. I'm currently thinking of ordering a new Graphtec FC8000 and it also pounces.

[David Wright]

If you are going to keep the gerber for pounce patterns then like the others graphtec or summa. If not, my Summa is of no use to me making patterns. I like the way Gerber uses a pounce wheel as opposed to the pin point going up and down on the Summa.

I too am in the market since my seven year old T750's head is going ( a thousand dollar replacement). This is my second Summa and possibly will buy a D75 which is selling for $2500. I don't need the tangential feature so a good name brand manufacturer will do.

Desktop models don't appeal to me as they seem less well built. I don't think enough people here considered your pouncing requirements. I would like to know how good graphtec is in that regard. Dr. Cas loves Allen Datagraph for that feature.

[GB2]

I agree with all that if you go larger then 30" is the next size you should consider...Gerber, Graphtec, Summa. You can definitely find a good used Gerber Envision 375 or 750 if you are patient, that is what I'd probably try to do.

[Steve G.]

We have a graphtec and a Roland GX24. Have not had an issue with either in years.
I agree with most everyone, but I also beleive a used Gx24 will work great for you if you see a good deal on one.
The graphtec Definatley tracks better, but i can get 10 ft out of the roland no problem.
Like Leigh, I pen plot and pounce with a wheel and that works fine for me

[Jackpine]

Check out Ordway. They always have a sale going. I saw a new CE 5000Mk2 for $1200 with free shipping.QUOTE=Jillbeans;624093]Bumping this again.
I have about $1200 to spend (I think)
I need something that will work on a Windows XP machine.
I'd like a 24".
I will save my nearly dead 4E for pounce patterns but I have had it up to here with this plotter.[/QUOTE]

[David Wright]

Another thing about buying is try to deal with a local supplier. You know how alone I feel with problems with mine when I have to ship it back to Seattle? Mostly you are stuck into trying to do your own repairs after ordering expensive parts.

[Border]

I have a gerber Envision 750 and an old Summa D620. The Summa has a pounce kit that I used a few times way back when and it seemed to work fine for that. But I'm not a painter nor have I tried pouncing with my Gerber to compare.
I absolutely LOVE my Gerber 750, 30 inch sprocket-fed but I have been considering selling it to help fund a larger cutter with opos for cutting large format digital prints.
I've never an issue with either of my plotters other than long tracking with the Summa VS unattended full roll cutting on the sprocket-fed Gerber. Downside of the sprocket-fed is it has no pinch rollers so you can't run scraps through it, but I have my 24 inch Summa for that!

[CES020]

Whichever you buy, go for at least a 30". While a 24" is adequate, with a 30" things seem to lay out better on the media. When I had a 24" I was always trying, with varying degrees of success, to shoehorn images onto the media. With the 30" I can't recall the last time it was an issue.



We started with a 24", not knowing 24" meant "it won't cut 24" ". We did the 30" Graphtec and size wise, it's been excellent. Being able to actually mark patterns that are 24" has been a real blessing. I haven't cut much stuff in the 24" range, but I have used it for patterns for dimensional letters many times. LOVE LOVE LOVE the 30" machine.

As far as support? It would be non-existent for us. We bought it from a big name company (that may or may not be a merchant member here), and we've had cutting issues with it after about 2-3 months. It cuts inconsistent. If you cut the same line of text, all the way across a sheet, maybe 5 of them, 3 will weed like magic, 2 will be a pain in the a**. Called graphtec and they said it was the material. We've tried Oracal, Avery, Trim, Arlon, and maybe another couple. Does the same on all of them.

Called the dealer. Dealer tech support said "Call Graphtec". So we started buying all of our material and cutters from the same place we bought the machine. So now we call in, when they say "It's the material, we say 'We bought the material from you' ". They have come into our shop, run dozens of samples, and left saying "there's something wrong with that machine".

And still, it sits here, unfixed, no phone calls, no nothing. No sense in calling Graphtec, they'll just tell me "it's not a machine problem" again, like they have every single time I have called.

So now, we just fight with the machine, hoping it'll wear out sooner rather than later and we can buy something else from a different dealer that actually gives a crap.

It cuts, it works, it's just a bear to weed jobs. If you look at the release liner, you can see where it cuts through in some places and not in others. New cutters, brand new cut strip, etc. It appears to be a mystery to everyone involved.

It won't be a mystery when we buy their competitors machine.