where do we go, now?

[bamawrapper]

Hi everyone!
My name is Shane Morris and I am a billboard installer who stumbled into installing vehicle wraps about 7 years ago. I am primarily self taught and have done about 50+ full wraps (transit buses, suv's, cars, trucks, boats, etc;), outfitted about 200 Alabama state trooper cars with complete decals, and installed countless transit bus ads. I do not print or design, only install. I have worked primarily with 2 companies in my area (one of which is no longer in business). I learned quite a bit the hard way but feel I do very high quality work-compared to what I've seen online and 1st hand. I REALLY love installing and want to do more wraps but I'm having trouble with where to start. I don't really have great contacts and no one seems to want to talk to me without a certification- even though I have a nice portfolio. If anyone has any advice I would be very grateful. Sorry if this has run a bit long but I figured just lay it all out there, right? Thanks everyone!

[Replicator]

It's Sunday night at almost midnight ET . . .

If you bump your thread tomorrow morning I'm sure you will get many more replies than you will receive now.

Welcome !

[BobM]

Your portfolio should be your "certification". It would seem that for you to take a 1 or 3 day class would be a waste, unless of course, you're the teacher. Haven't seen your work but to last 7 years doing it you must have some good ability.

Maybe a classified ad on Signs 101 would get you some additonal business is you're willing to travel a little?

[signage]

Welcome to the forums from PA. (OlllllO)

[SSG_SIGNS]

Where are you located?

[Gino]

Another PA welcome....................................

[Mikeifg]

Get Certified then you'll find more work if your work is of good quality. Other than that it's tough to get anything out there now.

[702 graphics]

Honestly a cert means nothing to me...All it means it you paid money to have someone show you stuff that you already know or have to figure out on your own anyway.
Let your work speak for yourself.
Why would I pay a competitor (Lowen) to cert me. So I can show my client that my competitor approves of me?

[702 graphics]

Good Installers are the hardest thing to find in this business. I put together your portfolio and start hitting shops.

[jhilldesigns]

welcome from cali :thumb:

[speedmedia]

Honestly a cert means nothing to me...All it means it you paid money to have someone show you stuff that you already know or have to figure out on your own anyway.
Let your work speak for yourself.
Why would I pay a competitor (Lowen) to cert me. So I can show my client that my competitor approves of me?

I agree with 702. I'd rather have a good, solid installer cert. means nothing if you know what you are doing.

It is important to put some sort of portfolio together and hit shops in the area or mail something / email to others in your region to try to hustle up some gigs.

Thanks,
Kurt


Thanks,
Kurt

[tanneji]

One thing about the cert though ... Our installer got the 3M, Lowen etc because they only call their certified installers to do installs for them. It's mainly fleet trucks, vans, electric company bucket trucks. Lots and lots of fleet graphics but it seems to be good easy money for him. He has to travel a fair amount but typically will not involve overnight in a hotel. Something to think about ...

[bamawrapper]

Where are you located?
Thanks for replying! I'm located just outside of Montgomery, Alabama- but I do travel as needed. I've even toyed with the idea of relocating.

[ProWraps]

if a cert is what is being requested by your potential employers to land your jobs, then the answer seems pretty clear to me. go get certed.

what anyone on this site has at all to say about how they feel about certs is irrelevant.

welcome to the site.

[bamawrapper]

Thanks for all the helpful info everyone! I feel like I'm already gaining very helpful insight from folks who have already been to this rodeo!

[grafixemporium]

All I can tell you is how things are in the Houston area. I know 4 of the best installers in the city who have each been wrapping cars for 10+ years... before the wonderful world of air egress. I don't think any of these guys are interested in being on the cover of a catalog. They love what they do and they do it extremely well. The ambitious ones make a damn good living at it. None of them are "certified" or interested in becoming "certified"... but I guarantee they can wrap circles around 95% of the installers who are.

[ProWraps]

All I can tell you is how things are in the Houston area. I know 4 of the best installers in the city who have each been wrapping cars for 10+ years... before the wonderful world of air egress. I don't think any of these guys are interested in being on the cover of a catalog. They love what they do and they do it extremely well. The ambitious ones make a damn good living at it. None of them are "certified" or interested in becoming "certified"... but I guarantee they can wrap circles around 95% of the installers who are.


yeah, i would just tell your potential employers that. im sure it will work just as well :thumb:

[Gino]

Yeah, that thinking is like saying... I'm an electrician and I know what I'm doing, but I was never tested or licensed to do this stuff. I don't need no stinking license. Just hire me and find out.

If the end-user requests it.... I would imagine you'd have to either get certified or say you can't do it.

I don't understand a need for a conversation on something so simple and to the point.

[grafixemporium]

If a certification had some basis of measurement or some measureable fundamental skill level that had to be achieved to attain one, I might agree with you guys. Also, if it were required by law, I would certainly agree. However, comparing a car wrap installer to an electrician is a little... well... incredibly far fetched. Let's face it, you guys are trying to add value to what we do by saying you are "certified". But what does that even mean? I can print my own certificate and hang it on the wall that says I'm certified. There are no city - county - state - or national requirements that say a car wrap installer needs to be certified in anything. That simply is not the case with electricians and plumbers.

As for potential employers... well... we are his potential employers. I'm saying as a potential employer for someone like Shane, I am wayyyy more interested in hearing how long he's been working with vinyl and seeing some pictures of projects he's installed than I am in seeing a copy of a virtually meaningless Lowen Certification.

Companies like 3M and Lowen who offer and host these certification classes are in it for one reason and one reason only... cha-ching!!

[ProWraps]

I don't understand a need for a conversation on something so simple and to the point.

gino, i think hell hath frozen over.

i dont see why when an employer asks for something its so hard to understand that you either comply or you dont get the job. a hammer, a degree, a squeege or a certification.

why anyones personal thoughts about certification were even were posted on this thread, is beyond me.

[grafixemporium]

Ye Almighty ProWraps Hath Spoken. May All Ye Thoughts And Opinions Be ****e Upon.

When's the next certification class... I GOTTA GO!!

[Gino]

grafix...

It has nothing to do with the legal ramifications of law or anything else. The power of the certificate means nothing. The value of the certificate means nothing.

It is/was a requirement by the customer and your nor anyone else's opinion matter in this scenario at all.

However, producing a fake certificate would put you at the bottom of the pond in my book. Anyone that thinks they can falsify documents or records cannot be trusted in my game.

Let's take a closer look at your theory.

Perhaps money is a main ingredient in 3M or other certification facilities, but what isn't about making money today ?? Many more installers have gone out and provided total hack jobs on vehicles than not..... and I've seen lots of them, locally and in other cities and states. There are far too many hacks doing this stuff and the amount of newbies professing to start somewhere are among the reasons we need to have this in our industry. It's too bad we can't all agree on a level and make sure everyone is up to the bar, but at least they are trying and it costs money to do this. Is it a money maker. yes to some. It also helps bring in money if you are indeed certified AND can carry out the task.

[Craig Sjoquist]

Knows they are screaming for quality installers... certification has got to help maybe not today but tomorrow ...that alone will start weeding out the weak as time goes on

To bad certification is not demanded for advertising designers

[ProWraps]

Ye Almighty ProWraps Hath Spoken. May All Ye Thoughts And Opinions Be ****e Upon.

When's the next certification class... I GOTTA GO!!

actually i answered his question. what to do when an employer wants a cert.

my answer: get a cert.

you chose to continually whine about the worthlessness of certs. either:

a) you cant read
b) you just want to complain.

regardless, your answer was devoid of any help to the user and anyone else on this board.

being overly dramatic about someone pointing this out to you, doesnt further your cause and shows not only that you didnt pay attention to the OP's original question, but also that you are a cry baby.

i am not almighty (but thank you for the compliment), but i can read. and just because i can, and can provide a legible answer to the OP, i feel that my response was valid. i politely applogize if you didnt.

[Merritt Graphics]

We hire nationwide installers ....

Some have been on the job for 90 days to complete big retail projects. others I have outsourced for regional wraps. Some installers get called for 1 offs..

Certification is the last thing I could care about... Show me your install history and I will back your skills.

Certs.. are great for hiring an installer blind. But in such a small industry word of mouth reputation, solid working relationship industry wide and a healthy portfolio means more..

The wrap biz for installers is way to small to "fake the funk" and the hacks are weeded out all the time....... The good guys are always put in the "database"..

[grafixemporium]

:goodpost:

[grafixemporium]

actually i answered his question. what to do when an employer wants a cert.

my answer: get a cert.

you chose to continually whine about the worthlessness of certs. either:

a) you cant read
b) you just want to complain.

regardless, your answer was devoid of any help to the user and anyone else on this board.

being overly dramatic about someone pointing this out to you, doesnt further your cause and shows not only that you didnt pay attention to the OP's original question, but also that you are a cry baby.

i am not almighty (but thank you for the compliment), but i can read. and just because i can, and can provide a legible answer to the OP, i feel that my response was valid. i politely applogize if you didnt.


Apology accepted.

[zmatalucci]

you could wrap presents for Macy's at christmas time and claim to be certified, and guaranteed your customers would hold more validity to your macys cert than s-lowen. IMO

[bamawrapper]

WOW! Didn't mean to rock the boat quite so hard!! I do appreciate all the input, though. I agree, in some ways, with both sides of the big certification debate. I believe it to be useless in defining skill level-but if the customer wants it and you want the job, well.... I guess at this point I'll just have to start digging and cold call (fun). What's that old saying....A thousand mile journey begins with one step?

[bamawrapper]

OK so I may be shooting the moon but anyone have suggestions on shops that may look favorably on quality over a cert in the southeast region? That's probably more than folks may want to divulge but hey, the most foolish question is the one left unasked!

[Jester1167]

IMO if you have customers (national accounts) asking for a certification, I would get it. Your losing more than the ones that do call.

Start making a list of the companies with names and contacts. Most won't call back unless they can't find anyone else. If you do get certified call them back and let them know.

Certification does not mean your the best installer ever. It's a bar set high enough to prove that you know how to prep, line up, and install all types of graphics through written and performance based tests.

All of us have met people from all walks of life that can talk up a storm, but when it comes time to do it, they just don't cut it. Certification helps large print houses cut through all that BS.

Certifications:

PDAA.com - Association, not tied to a manufacturer. Web listing. Part of the SGIA.org
UASG.org - Used to have full 3M support. Web listing
LowenCertified.com - 3M support. No web listing so appears you only get jobs directly from them.
WrapExperts.com - 3M support. No web listing.