How much printing will a set of inks do?

[Pat Whatley]

FIRST....I know that's the equivalent of asking "How much is a sign?" but bear with me.

I'm planning on finally pulling the trigger on a printer in June, more than likely a 54" Valuejet but possibly the new Mimaki a local dealer is pushing. What I'm wondering is how long the 220 ml cartridges last?

The vast majority of what we'll be printing on will be vinyl for interior use, typically convention signage. Very little with 100% coverage, we're really just planning to continue the same formats we've used for cut vinyl, just eliminating the hours of weeding letters by printing instead of cutting.

I know there are 1000 different variables that will have an effect on the answer but as a general average how many sets of ink would I go through printing a 54" x 150' roll of vinyl? Two? Three sets? Anybody want to offer a ballpark kind of figure?

[wildside]

printing a roll of 54x150 so many variables, but really you should be in the neighborhood of printing a couple of rolls before ink is an issue to replace

[heyskull]

HE HE HE this is the first question I asked when looking at a printer.
We are running a Valuejet 1604 we recently swapped to Lyson inks which over halved the cost of inks.
Media is the most expensive part of running one of these printers.
I can't even give a ball park figure as we swap in and out of materials so it is so hard to work out costings per metre.

Just make sure it is worth it making a profit!
There are too many people jumping on the print market.

In the early days I used to sub our print work out to another printer and I realise how much he was making and how badly his machine needed a print head!!!

SC

[Bill43mx]

I agree with WSGRAPHIX, a lot of variables but generally speaking you are talking about "rolls of media per set of inks", not "sets of ink per roll of media".

[Pat Whatley]

Cool, I was expecting 2-3 sets of ink per roll of vinyl.

[mark in tx]

No easy answer to that one.

You should maybe get 2 rolls of material out of one set.

But, you'll find that Magenta seems to go the fastest.

What you really want to look at is printing cost per sq/ft, per material.

Lets say the average cost for ink is 20 cents a sq/ft (so says the manufacturer),

If your vinyl material is 25 cents a sq/ft, then you have a 55 cent per sq/ft cost to print.

Now don't forget to factor in the labor cost of loading the machine, operating the RIP, let the print dry, trimming, mounting, paperwork, etc...

55 cents might really end up being 3-4 dollars a sq/ft cost.

So, is that machine really going to make you money versus what you have been doing already?
Will outsourcing that print work be more cost effective than what you are doing now?

I know that machine looks great for the price, but there is more to it than just 20k for the machine.
Training, profiling, mistakes, material, time, RIP software, new computer to run the RIP, etc... could very easily add another 10k to the real cost of that machine.

All that being said, if you know you are going to print mainly indoor materials, you might want to take a look at something like an Epson 9900.
About 5 grand for the machine, runs off a desktop driver, fantastic output.
Ink cost is about double of Eco-sol though.

[SignManiac]

Pat you will make money with a printer!!! And the work will be a hell of a lot easier once you get past the learning curve. One plus going for you, a lot of knowledge available to you compared to when I got into it. There weren't many places to go to for help back then and everything was a crap shoot as the technology was so new. Today you can reliably put out a top notch product all day long and you will expand your design capabilities ten fold.

[luggnut]

i run a mutoh falcon and i would say i could print 2 full rolls off one set ... they are not all full coverage. i know i have printed a 40 ft trailer wrap and several 4x8s along with lots of smaller things in a month and all of one set of inks.

[Pat Whatley]

Okay, enough, stop with the messages and emails about how to figure if I can afford a printer. :ROFLMAO:

I subbed out about $22,000 (my cost) in vinyl printing last year and just barely made it over the threshold where the profits/cost analysis will justify buying a printer. Having a printer in house I'll still be able to do that work plus the myriad of stuff we've spent far too much time weeding in vinyl. I am not jumping on the "got to have a printer" bandwagon, believe me. I just wanted to know about ink usage so I can plan on how many sets to keep in inventory.

[signage]

Come on Pat are you trying to bait us or what! You are now asking question like a newbie how long is a string? JK We know you have it figured out as far as you being able to afford or not! I would think that in your location that you would want to keep at least one spare set of ink if not 2!

[rfulford]

Epson uses 1 ml per sqft as an average in their ROI calculators for solvent machines and 1.5 ml per sqft in the aqueous machines. This is a good starting point.

The only way to be absolutely sure is to keep logs and weigh your full, empty and partial carts to calculate your average.

[Stealth Ryder]

0.50 - 1.50 ml per Square Foot depending on Artwork
or
15 Cents - 33 Cents per Square Foot depending on Artwork

[Pat Whatley]

Now that doesn't make any sense. .50ml per square foot would give me 440 sq.ft. per cartridge. There are more than 600 sq.ft. in a 54" x 150' roll of vinyl.

Nevermind, I'm just gonna order two extra sets of ink and figure it out as I go.

Thanks for the help.

[Stealth Ryder]

darn decimal points............

[Stealth Ryder]

See the pic...

[GP]

Congratulations Pat -

(no real help to give - just happy that you have made the leap)

Good luck,

GP

[insignia]

Try to keep on hand 2-4 sets of ink minimum, and you can get away with fewer black cartridges than the others. And go with 440ml carts if you can, it's just more convenient.

Something you might ask your supplier is if they can do some sort of "consignment" ink inventory for you. They may not want to do it at all, or they may want to wait a few months to see what your ink purchasing history is, but it's awesome if they'll do it. Our vendor stocks ink in our shop for both of our printers based on how much we think we'll ues in a month, and every month they just come in and audit what we've actually used and bill us for that. That way we only pay for what we use, but we've always got ink and we'll never run out. We typically keep on hand 10-15 440s per color per printer in the winter months and 20-35 440s per color per printer in the busier months. We don't always use all of it (hell in December we only used about 5 or 6 carts per color) but it's nice to know it's there in case, and there have been several times we've used it all and had to get it restocked. It's alot easier than ordering as you go and having to wait for an ink shipment to arrive because you miscalculated how much you have and your workflow grinds to a halt. You can probably save money doing this, we get a pretty good rate on the ink as well because of the volume they stock here.

By the way, good move on getting a printer, I'm sure everyone under the sun has told you this, but you'll find a bazillion uses for it you haven't even thought of yet. You'll be amazed at how quickly you stop cutting vinyl and transition everything over to printed, especially when you start realizing the labor savings over cutting and weeding. Good luck!

[randya]

Now that doesn't make any sense. .50ml per square foot would give me 440 sq.ft. per cartridge. There are more than 600 sq.ft. in a 54" x 150' roll of vinyl.

Nevermind, I'm just gonna order two extra sets of ink and figure it out as I go.

Thanks for the help.

Here is some additional information:
http://www.mutoh.com/kb/entry/30/

so that .5 ml or 1.2 ml per sq.ft. is C, M, Y and K total.
so .5 ml would give you 1760 sq. ft. per set of cartridges
and the 1.2 ml would give you 733 per set....etc..

*Your actual mileage may vary.

[GB2]

Quick thoughts...you'll want to gauge your inventory of ink based on your actual usage because the ink has a fairly short shelf life and you don't want an excessive inventory sitting on the shelf. Based on your $22,000 sub-out, you will not be printing tremendous quantity so don't overstock just yet. Also, don't forget the dreaded maintenance issue that you'll be subject to and the fact that the printers even use a lot of ink when you aren't printing. You will also want to get 440 cartridges not 220.

As far as Mimaki vs Valuejet, service and support are probably the most important consideration. Those are both good machines but the quick availability of supplies and technicians at a time of need are critical. I have a Mimaki and have been very happy with it's performance if you want to discuss anything about them, give me a call.

[Stealth Ryder]

Thanks Randy!!!

[GAC05]

This is what I got out of my 1304 this weekend:

End to end 4 rolls of 40" x 164' banner material
end to end 2 rolls of 54" x 164' adhesive vinyl
65ft of of 42" adhesive vinyl
Most of it was full coverage - layouts had some white space in them.
I totaled up all the square footage using the layouts and got around 3200 square feet

I have 5 empty 220mil carts
1 half empty 440mil cart
220 carts in the machine are at K11%(original cart that came with the printer) C98%, M74% & Y98%(440ml)


This translated into
84 18"x72" double sided vertical banners
9 3'x10' single sided horizontal banners
3 2'x10' single sided horizontal banners
100 40"x40" window posters (with a few odd larger and smaller sizes in the last 10pc)
100 12"x20" single sided posters
A bunch of small odd sized prints that ranged from 5"x5" to 14"x12" along with several scaled down proofs for each file to check the profiles for color and quality.

All this stuff is for outdoor display - 130z banner material - nothing laminated.
(It will all go in to the trash in 6 months)


Not sure how it all works out cuz this thing is brand new
but it seemed like a lot of print for the amount of ink used.


wayne k
guam usa

[grafixemporium]

I guess the more important question is how far away is more ink if you need it? We can get ink same day if we pick it up or next day if we want it delivered. So, we keep and as-needed inventory of ink with one extra set on hand at all times. When a cartridge gets replaced, we order another. If we're printing a fleet of wraps, we order a little extra.

There's no sense tying up $1000 in ink that just sits on your shelf if you can order it as needed.

By the way, We have used twice as many magenta 440ml cartridges than we have cyan or yellow. And maybe 3/4 as many blacks as cyans and yellows. So, just keep an eye on your magentas.

[Mainframe]

Pat, congrats on getting a printer, your gonna LOVE IT! & remember you heard it from me, your gonna say you shoulda done it sooner. And as far as ink goes you will be happy with the coverage you get, I remember wondering the same thing when I got my Roland & was surprised how far the ink goes, but how much you keep on hand depends on how quick you can get it, I just keep 4 to 6 carts on hand at all times, I usually order 4 every time I order to get free shipping & to keep overlap, just don't get busy & forget to reorder,,remember you heard that here also!

[Stealth Ryder]

Pat, congrats on getting a printer, your gonna LOVE IT! & remember you heard it from me, your gonna say you shoulda done it sooner. And as far as ink goes you will be happy with the coverage you get, I remember wondering the same thing when I got my Roland & was surprised how far the ink goes, but how much you keep on hand depends on how quick you can get it, I just keep 4 to 6 carts on hand at all times, I usually order 4 every time I order to get free shipping & to keep overlap, just don't get busy & forget to reorder,,remember you heard that here also!

Good Advice...

[Techman]

my usage is about as stated above...

Averages a total of couple milliliters per square foot of all the colors.. Then you add in usage for priming, cleaning, and spills.

I used about 1000 ML of ink last year and printed about 5 rolls of material of various widths.
Yellow goes fast and magenta goes just about as fast. Black uses very little and cyan is a distant third in usage.

Ink costs are negligible.. What hurts is when you get half done with a print and it drops a spatter, or ink misses a lap, or a cart quits.

It really hurts when you print a job and find a small error. It can never be fixed. You will use very little cut vinyl anymore and not much in clipart. You will use lots of photos...

[zmatalucci]

your ink usage will be determined by your designs. (IMO)
I love blues, and go through cyan a lot! Ink usage is negligible as stated above. I always keep an extra cmyk on hand.

[Mainframe]

As far as bad prints, I went & bought every color sharpie I could find & you would be surprised what you can cover with a few color combos from those pens!

[Stealth Ryder]

As far as bad prints, I went & bought every color sharpie I could find & you would be surprised what you can cover with a few color combos from those pens!

Smart Thinking Sir...