New Owners of the HP L25500

[MachServTech]

What are your impressions? What medias do you like/dislike on it?

What rips are you using? problems?

Likes/Dislikes in general?

Looking to purchase one soon and would like some extra info before going to ISA.

[KevSign]

What are your impressions? What medias do you like/dislike on it?
Ultra Flex 15oz Supersmooth Blockout we got problem with this because Drying system too hot to make material not even when it done, so far we learn this and adjust the temperature from 90 to 70 make sure ink is dry, So far we like to run on 3M180c, Orajet 3165RA for daily job print and mount (great quality, we using to print with HPz6100), we will try with sublimation textile soon ( block-out textile).

What rips are you using? problems?
We using Wasatch rip driving with 4 printers, HP-L25500 could not connect with stand alone network card and fail couple time for power of mother board, Now we connect through local net so far no problem since.

Likes/Dislikes in general?

Like No smell solvent, fast print, replace print head (you don't pay for technician), i1 color built in for calibration for print head alignment, print on sublimation textiles (will try next), leather, Light box. So far ink not too bad for pricing 775ml cost around $139-159 ea. cartridge. NO WAITING FOR DRYING (laminate, trim and ship right way).

Dislike: Waiting for machine warm-up every print waste media (you had to rip ahead and print all same time, in Wasatch using layout add job together and print), Head strike if not advance media, unroll media if thick media with memory will get head strike when machine starting warm-up, you have to have 2 fire extinguisher require from HP (that's funny), cannot leave it run overnight like other printer, if get stuck will catch fire on some medias (our shop will run with Roland printer if need overnight print), will get hot in summer.

Anyway, This printer will help us win more jobs with high quality print, maintenance cost is low, I am sure HP will learn and improve their Firmware fine tune this print will be perfect. We looking for 2nd one when HP come out 2nd genration.

[MachServTech]

Great input! Thanks KevSign

[marcsitkin]

So far, these are the materials that have worked:

HP HDPE Banner- Runs well, nice color
HP Heavyweight Fabric- can hold a good black, bright color
Ultraflex Window Perf- not sure which version, we had an old roll
Mojave 13oz Super smooth banner vinyl-good color, handles heat well
Coated 80lb offset paper-prints great!
HP Latex paper- printed very nicely


These materials haven't worked well:

HP Lightweight Fabric- weak black, not waterfast
3p Tru-color heavy banner-mottled appearence (we will retest with a custom profile)


Still testing, will update as we try more materials

[johnnyblazedog]

Looks like the mini version of the L65500 we got here at the shop. Kewl new toy. I wish I had one at my home.:cool1:

[jens]

the worst problem is the heating time to start.
but i have heard that you can place it on a standbytemp. A setting in the rip. Wasatch rip ? Is that true ? you can't do this in caldera.

you dont need to drop a high ink limit that is nice,
but the most problem is heating of the media.

[marcsitkin]

In the Wasatch rip is a button labeled "prepare printer" which gets it going up to temp. If you hit it before you set up your file in the rip, it shaves a little time off the warm-up.

Heat-up time seems to be no more than our Mimaki JV3 had.

[aerospacial]

do you put your machines in nobreak ?

i had 3 day down because of error 86:01... and started work suddenly.

I'm not satisfied with this machine

lets see in the future..

[marcsitkin]

So far, these are the materials that have worked:

HP HDPE Banner- Runs well, nice color
HP Heavyweight Fabric- can hold a good black, bright color
Ultraflex Window Perf- not sure which version, we had an old roll
Mojave 13oz Super smooth banner vinyl-good color, handles heat well
Coated 80lb offset paper-prints great!
HP Latex paper- printed very nicely
Recently Tested and printed nicely (All from Lexjet):

Linen SUV
Poly SUV
Poly Lite SUV



These materials haven't worked well:

HP Lightweight Fabric- weak black, not waterfast
3p Tru-color heavy banner-mottled appearence (we will retest with a custom profile)


Still testing, will update as we try more materials

[Atoku]

I've been running the 60" latex machine with Onyx Postershop 7.x since mid-March. So far there have been no major issues and it behaves like a typical DesignJet.

We tend to print specialty signage and fabrics for the exhibit trade. The printer also does a good job on outdoor vinyl, banners and perforated window films. Coated (solvent) polyester fabrics and textured polyester films are producing excellent results.

The machine is very sensitive to humidity (we're near the Texas gulf coast). High relative humidity coupled with operation near the top of the temperature range will definitely impact curing and print speed on lower temperature substrates. Best results are achieved when humidity is kept in check with air conditioning and a large volume dehumidifier. At 75 F we maintain 35%-40% RH. Any higher moisture and low temp, low print pass or high ink modes may fail to fully cure inks on some low temp substrates.

HP confirmed my observation (as read by IR temp measurements) that higher temperatures are present on the control panel/service station side of the platten. Some wide substrates, calendered vinyl for instance may experience uneven curing or possible deformation as a result.

In general the machine performs well although further firmware tweaks are in order.

[marcsitkin]

Updates 6-29-10
So far, these are the materials that have worked:

HP HDPE Banner- Runs well, nice color
HP Heavyweight Fabric- can hold a good black, bright color
Ultraflex Window Perf- not sure which version, we had an old roll
Mojave 13oz Super smooth banner vinyl-good color, handles heat well
Coated 80lb offset paper-prints great!
HP Latex paper- printed very nicely
Dreamscape canvas wallpaper
Recently Tested and printed nicely (All from Lexjet):

Linen SUV
Poly SUV
Poly Lite SUV
Lexjet canvas wallpaper (application to wall also went well)



These materials haven't worked well:

HP Lightweight Fabric- weak black, not waterfast
3p Tru-color heavy banner-mottled appearence (we will retest with a custom profile)


Still testing, will update as we try more materials

[Firefox]

Bumping to the top, hope that is okay!

I am considering the HP 25500, or possibly the Roland Versa Camm VS-640.

If anyone has updates to how they like their HP now that they have been using it a while I would appreciate the info.

The resellers of this hardware are being aggressive with the package deals these days and this HP looks attractive.


Thanks in advance :U Rock:

[justanothersignguy]

Thanks for the media testing information... I've been having the same problems with the hp light fabric. Or, I had someone tell me that the tablecloth I printed for them got some water on it and all the color started running.

I've had the same issue with the HP wall paper.

How does the HP heavy fabric work? Would it also be usable as say a tablecloth? Or is it too rough?

[marcsitkin]

The HP Heavy fabric prints well, but is too heavy for a table cloth.

Try the simple fabric media from lexjet. It might do the trick. Prints well.

[MachServTech]

Thanks for the media testing information... I've been having the same problems with the hp light fabric. Or, I had someone tell me that the tablecloth I printed for them got some water on it and all the color started running.

I've had the same issue with the HP wall paper.


On the wallpaper I notice a slight rub off when the wallpaper is wet and I am wiping hard, but its nowhere near enough to smear the image.

I have used both of these products from HP on the L25500 now and have had no problems. Currently running Onyx X10.

Could be the curing settings in the RIP are not set high enough. I just tested (poured water) on a printed sample of the light fabric that HP sent me in the mail a few months ago. It didn't bleed or run.

[insignia]

So overall how is the scratch resistance of these inks on regular gloss vinyl? How well does it hold up to any sort of solvents, from Rapid Tac to Alcohol? We're seriously considering the 25500 as a replacement for our aging JV3 but I'm concerned about ink durability compared to solvent ink we're used to.

[MachServTech]

I find the l25500 has the same alcohol resistance as the epson gs inks. The scratch resistance is much better than eco sol inks. Its nice to pull prints off of this machine and not have the faces stick together. You give and take a little with any ink, but I am really happy since I purchased this machine. I think the best part is not having to wait to laminate. Zero maintenance comes in a close second though.

[insignia]

Realistically do you see it as a viable replacement for solvent inks, leaving the eco-friendly aspect out of the equation? Better, equal, not quite as good as solvent? From what I'm hearing it almost sounds too good to be true but I haven't found the catch yet. Maybe there really isn't one...

[Kevin-SignVOX]

I heard that you have to replace the heads on these machines every 400ml or so. Is that true? Doesn't it also require two 220 volt inputs?

[BigfishDM]

I heard that you have to replace the heads on these machines every 400ml or so. Is that true? Doesn't it also require two 220 volt inputs?

Thats not true cause the inks are 775Ml and you dont need to replace after every cartridge

[Kevin-SignVOX]

Thats not true cause the inks are 775Ml and you dont need to replace after every cartridge

Maybe it was after 400L? I did hear heads have to be replaced after....? I just can't remember the number. I believe it was less than a year on average. I could have heard wrong as that has been known to happen.

[BigfishDM]

Maybe it was after 400L? I did hear heads have to be replaced after....? I just can't remember the number. I believe it was less than a year on average. I could have heard wrong as that has been known to happen.


The heads are cheap, not like on a solvent printer. HP Latex Heads are only $95 and can be replaced by a 2 year old. Its alot like the 5500's and the Z6100's

[Kevin-SignVOX]

The heads are cheap, not like on a solvent printer. HP Latex Heads are only $95 and can be replaced by a 2 year old. Its alot like the 5500's and the Z6100's
Thanks for the info. That's isn't a bad price at all.

[MachServTech]

Realistically do you see it as a viable replacement for solvent inks, leaving the eco-friendly aspect out of the equation? Better, equal, not quite as good as solvent? From what I'm hearing it almost sounds too good to be true but I haven't found the catch yet. Maybe there really isn't one...

I think our industry can be slow to adopt new technologies, especially when you are essentially putting all of your eggs in HP's basket. I haven't found a real downside yet. I am paying less for ink than I did running 3rd party in a HP 9000. (primarily from waste ink savings) I dont have the daily maintenace issues of dealing with a solvent printer and I have better, more reliable print quality. (replaceable printheads)

[insignia]

So from a marketability standpoint how is it being received? Are your customers caring that it's "green" technology" or are they not concerned with it? Are people resistant to spending more for some of the recyclable or biodegradable medias and substrates available or are you finding people willing to spend a few bucks more to be eco-conscious?

We've been polling alot of our larger clients (mostly agencies) about their potential interest in this technology and the overwhelming response I'm getting is "if it's more expensive, we don't care about being green". This is obviously in response to the demands of their clientèle, but it's surprising to me and to them that some very large well-known companies out there that we/they work for who claim to be very concerned with the green movement will only do so if it doesn't cost them any more money.

[marcsitkin]

For a shop like mine, which is not primarily focused on solvent media output, but likes to offer banners, vinyl vehicle graphics and other types of prints better done on traditional solvent media, it was a good choice.

We never ran our previous solvent machine every day, and paid the price in wasted ink, wasted time in maintenance, and sometimes a lot of time spent getting the machine going again after letting it sit idle. When the time came to replace our aging Mimaki JV3, I wanted a machine more similar to my aqueous printers, and the HP is really close.

The HP requires no daily maintenance, and has fired up without a hitch after being idle for a week or more. As much as I hate the cyclical nature of the business, I find that it's getting more cyclical, not less. When there's work, there's plenty to do, but there care long periods of nothing to do. So this machine seems to be a better fit.

I'm not a big fan of bulk ink supplies, and prefer the consistency and reliability of OEM supplied cartridges. I don't sell at the bottom dollar price, so saving a dime per square foot (maybe?) makes no difference. The HP ink goes a long way, and is fairly priced. Color gamut is good, and there is minimal odor.

With a little fooling around, the machine seems to run a wide variety of materials well enough that the customers are happy. Can it hit the same gamut as one of my 12 color machines? No. But then again, I don't need it to.

Really, it's how the machine performs over the long haul that counts, and whether the ROI works. Time will tell!

[MachServTech]

So from a marketability standpoint how is it being received? Are your customers caring that it's "green" technology" or are they not concerned with it? Are people resistant to spending more for some of the recyclable or biodegradable medias and substrates available or are you finding people willing to spend a few bucks more to be eco-conscious?


I find that I spend about 30% less to produce on this machine compared to the Seiko and Hp 9000 I have. (I went through a lot of ink keeping those machines clean and operational)

Its close the same cost compared to the 3rd part ecosol I was running.

I dont use the recyclable HP banner or paper, in fact I don't even market the green message to my customers.

[marcsitkin]

Has anyone run magnetic media on the HP? Thinking about the type used for vehicle magnets.

[MachServTech]

Has anyone run magnetic media on the HP? Thinking about the type used for vehicle magnets.

No, but I am really interested because there are no metal plates on the print platen for the magnetic to stick to, I think it might work very well.

Please post and let us know if you tried it and if you had any success.

[marcsitkin]

Looks like the thickness of our mag material which is 33mil is over the 19.7mil max of the machine.

[wonsngis]

I find that I spend about 30% less to produce on this machine compared to the Seiko and Hp 9000 I have. (I went through a lot of ink keeping those machines clean and operational)

Its close the same cost compared to the 3rd part ecosol I was running.

I dont use the recyclable HP banner or paper, in fact I don't even market the green message to my customers.

So, Mach, if you don't mind my asking... what 3rd party were you running in your 9000 and how much were you paying?

[vroongraphics]

Just heard from source at Joto that the latex ink works with heat transfer materials....they researched this topic for me, as I was weighing the pros/cons of purchasing either a Roland VP540i or HP latex printer (which I got a sweet quote on!). Only concern was whether or not I can print on transfer vinyl for doing apparel....now I know, and am seriously considering going with the HP latex inks....

[T3]

I've been sitting on the fence about this printer for a while now. Just got back from the franchise Conference in Ontario. HP has offered us what looks like a very sweet deal on this printer....

3 months no payments (if I choose to lease)
Cost of $19,499 (not including the RIP or freight)
2 complete sets of ink included
Installation & training included

Keep in mind these are CDN $! One owner signed the deal at Conference last week... said it was a very good deal.

Any thoughts? This would act as back-up/replacement for my Roland SP540V. I've also been told that Onyx can print the Roland cut marks so I could cut on the 540.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[E36]

I've been sitting on the fence about this printer for a while now. Just got back from the franchise Conference in Ontario. HP has offered us what looks like a very sweet deal on this printer....

3 months no payments (if I choose to lease)
Cost of $19,499 (not including the RIP or freight)
2 complete sets of ink included
Installation & training included

Keep in mind these are CDN $! One owner signed the deal at Conference last week... said it was a very good deal.

Any thoughts? This would act as back-up/replacement for my Roland SP540V. I've also been told that Onyx can print the Roland cut marks so I could cut on the 540.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

That is a very sweet deal indeed. The price is 42" or 60"?

[BigfishDM]

http://hpl25500users.ning.com/

Here is a good sight for other users of that unit.

[divimaging]

do you put your machines in nobreak ?

i had 3 day down because of error 86:01... and started work suddenly.

I'm not satisfied with this machine

lets see in the future..

I've had the printer for over 8 months and love it. It's fast and virtually maintenance free. However after about 4 months and LOTS of use (I'm talking 6-7 hours a day, 5 days a week running) I started getting substrate jam errors (86:01) even though there wasn't any! After trial and error I figured out that the rod the printhead carriage slides on needed to be lubricated. The substrate jams were caused by friction along the rod. Problem solved, so I thought. About a month later it started happening again and no amount of lube fixed it. It would make a hideous sound while initializing like it was scraping across something with lots of force as it moved, then the 86:01 substrate jam error would appear and I had to shut the machine down and try to start it again... same problem over and over. After more trial and error I found that there's also an UPPER rod that the carraige slides on that's out of sight when looking down at the platen. After lubing this rod the machine has been fine. Hope this helps you in the future!

[WrapperX]

In the Wasatch rip is a button labeled "prepare printer" which gets it going up to temp. If you hit it before you set up your file in the rip, it shaves a little time off the warm-up.

Heat-up time seems to be no more than our Mimaki JV3 had.

Is there an option on Onyx 10? That would help us out alot!

[MachServTech]

Click on the little "i" info balloon next to the printer name.

[WrapperX]

Very Good sir! Thanks - that's gonna save some time on waiting for the printer to get up and going. Sweet!

:rock-n-roll:

[Edwin Mukiria]

Hello,
Just recently joined signs101, and am looking at purchasing the HP L25500 but still have a few questions.
I'm not so sure how well this printer will print on thicker media, especially backlit media, also how well does the latex ink stand up to the sun and the elements outdoors?
Any opinions?
Thanks!
Edwin

[WrapperX]

Click on the little "i" info balloon next to the printer name.

This actually doesn't iniate the heaters, all this does is activate the printer and pull it out of sleep mode - it initalizes the "mechanics" and gets it ready to recieve data.

Bummer - doesn't look like there's anyway to kick on the heaters before you send the print.

[Drs05]

This actually doesn't iniate the heaters, all this does is activate the printer and pull it out of sleep mode - it initalizes the "mechanics" and gets it ready to recieve data.

Bummer - doesn't look like there's anyway to kick on the heaters before you send the print.

Are you sure? Because I'm pretty sure when I click "Prepare Printing" it fires up the heaters on the machine.

Check my screenshot with the highlighted button (Onyx 10). Have you tried this?

[WrapperX]

Yeah, we're on 10 as well and whenever I hit this, it kicks the machine on. From sleeping or hybernate or whatever but if you check your printer, all it's doing is initializing mechanics. It still takes the same amount of time to warm up. And it doesn't fire those up until you hit print and it starts to recieve data. At least thats what I've found.
However I don't know how to check temps on the machine from the menu yet to prove this therory.

[T3]

I've been running the L25500 for about 3 months now... I just love it! :loveya: I've run quite a few medias through it and only found a couple that won't work too well, and that's because they were formulated for solvent. I hardly use my Roland these days and am looking at trading it for a 54" cutter. The HP is fast... even with the warm-up time at the beginning of printing. And yes, you can pre-heat while you are working on the RIP, just like drs6222 mentioned in the Onyx 10 RIP!

Here's a pic of a print I did yesterday last week, and I'm running 8 more today. These are 36" x 72" and printed in about 10 minutes each on 12-pass. The stock is 7mil Latex Poster paper from Big Fish, and it runs like a charm. I have more on the way to me as I type this! Excellent media and a phenomenal printer! :thumb:

[WrapperX]

I'm still not sure how you all think that the exclamation point kicks on the printer to pre heat - I have yet to see a differance in kicking that on or just hitting the print and letting it do its thing on its own. All I have seen is that it pulls the printer out of sleep mode if it is in sleep mode. Please, if there's more then hitting the prepare button please let me know cause I'm not convinced.

[MachServTech]

I'm still not sure how you all think that the exclamation point kicks on the printer to pre heat - I have yet to see a differance in kicking that on or just hitting the print and letting it do its thing on its own. All I have seen is that it pulls the printer out of sleep mode if it is in sleep mode. Please, if there's more then hitting the prepare button please let me know cause I'm not convinced.

prepare just brings the temps up to a "ready" state, not to the print temp. This feature is WAY more important if it is 50 F or less in the room and you are getting ready to print.

I used to get the same issues with my seiko CP64 on really cold days... but I didn't have the prepare button then!

[2CT Media]

We just purchased a L25500 for use with Onyx X10, In Onyx media manager this morning I noticed that the HP L25500 is listed as a Measurement device. When I try to print a swatch table it says that the table cant be printed in the area allotted no matter what size material I'm using... It only happens with this as the measurement device, does any one have any advice on how to use the L25500 imbedded i1? I have borrowed a i1 Pro but have to return it after I profile and it would be nice if I could use the built in one.

Thanks for any help in advance, I look forward to posting whatever knowledge I can provide in the future.

My impression of the machine... Love it! came from a Mutoh VJ-1304 and its much faster and alot better quailty. So far we have printed on Oracal 3640G which looks great, HP HDPE looks good but hate the thread lines in the material, and GF Poly but it deforms horribly and if we turn the cure temp down enough to prevent the deformity the ink doesn't dry properly.

Onyx as always is amazing and the full utilization of printer features is nice.

Christian

[T3]

I'm still not sure how you all think that the exclamation point kicks on the printer to pre heat - I have yet to see a differance in kicking that on or just hitting the print and letting it do its thing on its own. All I have seen is that it pulls the printer out of sleep mode if it is in sleep mode. Please, if there's more then hitting the prepare button please let me know cause I'm not convinced.

Well, you're probably doing it wrong! Are you standing on one foot, rubbing your belly and patting your head while you click the button?:rolleyes: Oh wait, you'd need a free hand to do that.... dang, let me get back to you!! :ROFLMAO:

No really... I think what MachServTech said is probably accurate. Still, I don't mind waiting for the warm-up period... it still kicks the Roland's butt in speed!:thumb:

[WrapperX]

:goodpost:

:ROFLMAO:

I agree, the warm up is a small price to pay for the ability to work with it that day if need be.

[2CT Media]

I found the solution to my quandary.... the minimum media size has to be set to 36" width for some reason, I have set this to 36" and printed on 24" material and the chart fits. Scans pretty slow but it works and has been used to recalibrate my Oracal 3640G profile with success. Hopefully this helps other L25500/Onyx users.

[Felix Sepulveda]

Hi, I'm after one of these printers for my shop. I've finding out about the energy impact. Can you comment, please if your electricity costs has raised significantly after your L25500 purchase ?

[2CT Media]

While running a watt meter its draw during printing Oracal 3640G - 131f dry & 230f Cure its 3kw.

We've had the printer for 2 weeks so no real impact yet but my daily usage hasn't changed according to SRP "our power compnay".

[gnemmas]

You all have a good banner supplier for this printer? Especially 60" banner material.

I am swapping Nusign's glossy banner material with their matte banner and printed OK.

[2CT Media]

Not Yet, we used to buy Zeelon Gloss from Fellers for our mutoh... now that we can profile directly on the machine we can build a profile for it on the HP. it has been the most cost effective for the quality banner we have used.

[econolinesigns]

We are just starting to look at this printer but we are being told by our vendor that the temp on the heaters must be lowered as the vinyl has been buckling, resulting in head stikes. They also said that with the 2-220v single phase outlets, you have to keep a fire extinguisher near the printer in case of fire. They said a customer who owns one has said that the machine reliability is marginal and that it heats the room up with a moist heat. Lastly, they said that it is not easy to print on remnants and that on a 6' piece you have to recore first before you can load.

Maybe their biggest item is they are telling us that the print heads must be replaced after 3 to 5 sets of ink at about $600. They also said the print heads fail much quicker if you print at higher speeds.

Any feedback or other info from someone who is using one of these or who may have heard the same or different would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Hzone15]

Does your dealer want you to buy the Latex or not, sounds to me like he is trying to stray you away from it.

I like most of the owners who own the L25500 will tell you that yes all materials take different curing and drying temperatures even similar 13oz banner from Oracle to Sihl may take a little experimentation. Once you have your material setting and profiles correct you won't be disappointed.

Ink cost = heads, inks & maintenance kit. The Cost per sq. ft to Solvent is very similar without the 2K print head replacement cost down the road.

Last but not least weather you purchase a latex or not. Please put a fire extinguisher in your shop for the sake of your employee's!

[BigfishDM]

2 42" machines are left at the $7900.00 price if your still looking.

[Hzone15]

Big Fish, what's your rock bottom pricing on the 60" now?

[oleg_indigo]

Hello. I'm looking for a printer latex l25500 60" by loyal price. Your suggestions gentlemen.

[oleg_indigo]

Hello. I'm looking for a printer latex l25500 60" by loyal price. Your suggestions gentlemen.
With best regards
Oleg Koshevoy

[BigfishDM]

Rock bottom is $17,500.00 delivered. Your local dealer might honor this price if you give it to them but if they dont then let me know and I will get you all set up.

[smdgrfx]

You should be able to get special "Show pricing" this week and next because of the Vegas show. I'm taking the plunge. 60" L25500 with Onyx 10 postershop - about $19k delivered.

[bigben]

You should be able to get special "Show pricing" this week and next because of the Vegas show. I'm taking the plunge. 60" L25500 with Onyx 10 postershop - about $19k delivered.

wow! I wish we had the same price here in Canada...