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paint pusher
11-29-2010, 02:01 PM
Hi, I was reading an older thread and it said that one shot paint was no good on a banner. I have three banners to paint and was wondering what kind of paint is good, and if there is any surface preparation that needs to be done on a vinyl banner.
thanks

Mosh
11-29-2010, 02:14 PM
The banner needs to be enamel receptive. Been 15 years since I painted one, we used to use a water-based paint from Cental Sign Supplies. Why not print it or get it printed, much cheaper when you figure your time in it.

Pat Whatley
11-29-2010, 02:32 PM
Mosh is right on both counts. If it's an option for your project you can get a full color banner printed, hemmed and grommeted cheaper than you can buy an enamel receptive blank.

Gino
11-29-2010, 02:40 PM
Welcome from PA.............................................

paint pusher
11-29-2010, 03:47 PM
I actually did suggest the customer getting the banners done in vinyl, but the guy really likes my style of artwork. It was going to be a temporary sign, but the city codes will count any advertising as part of the whole store front signage. I heard that latex house paint might be an option but I figured I would ask before I jump into this.
Thank you for your advise.

Mosh
11-29-2010, 04:15 PM
but the guy really likes my style of artwork

So draw it up and have it printed, no one said anything about vinyl. I guess I don't follow you. Or are you one of those
people stuck in the 70's thinking anything that comes out of a computer is crap?

GraphixUnlimited
11-29-2010, 04:16 PM
I actually did suggest the customer getting the banners done in vinyl, but the guy really likes my style of artwork. It was going to be a temporary sign, but the city codes will count any advertising as part of the whole store front signage. I heard that latex house paint might be an option but I figured I would ask before I jump into this.
Thank you for your advise.

id just do the artwork, vectorize it, jazz it up as needed and print that bad boy!!! way more cost and time effective, giver though!!! and post some pics once ya get er done!!

cheers eh :Canada:

Fitch
11-29-2010, 05:04 PM
@ Mosh: "Or are you one of those people stuck in the 70's thinking anything that comes out of a computer is crap?"

You don't have to be stuck in any era to think anything that comes out of a computer is crap.

Garbage in - Garbage out. It comes down to design. There a very bad hand painted banners and excellent digitally printed banners and vice versa. Design.

Possibly a better statement may have been "or are you one of those people stuck in the 70's that think good visual layout, negative space, lettering weight, colour usage, and blends / effects can't come out of a computer, and only achievable by hand?

There is also the possibility that Paint Pusher actually enjoys hand painting, may be good at it, quite fast, see the actual longevity of paint over ink, and not all that good or time efficient at vectorizing - horses for courses.

I agree with you on many things Mosh - just not that broad statement.

BUT.... at the same time, Paint Pusher MAY be "one of those people stuck in the 70's thinking anything that comes out of a computer is crap?"

Just think it's worth the benefit of the doubt - that's all.

Cheers - G

OldPaint
11-29-2010, 05:05 PM
this sounds a little strange to me. IF........you been PAINTING BANNERS, and they like your work.............WHAT WAS YOU PAINTING THOSE WITH???????????
who ever told you that ONE-SHOT is no good, i dont think they know what they are talking about. so their opinion........IS NOT WORTH listening to.
NOW.........what is true about 1-SHOT, is it does not cover like it used to. whoever told you LATEX paint on banners.........again they dont know what they are talkin bout.
ever heard of RONAN?????????????

Mosh
11-29-2010, 05:17 PM
My point was that some people think EVERYTHING that comes out of a printer is crap and only hand painted signs are worthy, that the impression I got.

+on the Ronan, but like I say the banner must be emeamel reseptive.

paint pusher
11-29-2010, 05:27 PM
The truth is that I was born in the 70's. I have been an artist for at least 25 years. I am not opposed to computer graphics, I think the marriage of the two as far as lay out and graphics are a good thing. I have been doing sign painting ,permanent and temporary for the last five years. I have also had graphics classes from 1993 to the present. Where it stands right now I only have access to paint. I don't have a digital printer. I can do the design in vector form. I already bought the banners from a local sign shop. Do you think I could get it in vector and have someone print it for me?

http://www.wizardesigns.com/

thanks.

Mosh
11-29-2010, 06:24 PM
I already bought the banners from a local sign shop.

I doubt that paint will stick to them then. Enamel rec banners cost more this I
bet these are not. I too was born in the 70's, I never had any classes, but been
in the sign biz since 1988, at the age of 15 is when I started.

Jet Fast Printing
11-29-2010, 06:32 PM
The truth is that I was born in the 70's. I have been an artist for at least 25 years. I am not opposed to computer graphics, I think the marriage of the two as far as lay out and graphics are a good thing. I have been doing sign painting ,permanent and temporary for the last five years. I have also had graphics classes from 1993 to the present. Where it stands right now I only have access to paint. I don't have a digital printer. I can do the design in vector form. I already bought the banners from a local sign shop. Do you think I could get it in vector and have someone print it for me?

http://www.wizardesigns.com/

thanks.

There are quite a few merchant members who could do the printing for you. Pretty sure there are some in AZ, at least it close(ish) to you. Take a look in the merchant member area.

Brandon708
11-29-2010, 06:37 PM
Just use Solvent inks to paint your banner :thumb:

OldPaint
11-29-2010, 07:03 PM
1-SHOT makes a PAINT ON.........paint receptive chemical. paint it on any banner, then you can paint on it.

RebeckaR
11-29-2010, 07:14 PM
Chromatic makes a primer called ti-coat that I've used to prep banner material for 1 shot.
I think you can still get it from Mid-west Sign or probably anyone that carries Chromatic or 1 shot products.

Jillbeans
11-29-2010, 07:19 PM
When I do a painted banner I order them via N Glantz from USBanner (http://www.usbanner.com/)
(some of mine are on their photo page as well as my 101 gallery)
They make a great enamel receptive blank in a variety of colors.
They have also donated generously to my past Letterhead meets.
Since a banner is in and of itself a temporary type of sign I wouldn't worry about using 1Shot on it, even though it's not what it once was.
I would never use black or Bright Red 1S on anything, however.
I have had good results from Ronan products.
Have fun, would like to see a pic of your finished work.
Love.....Jill

JimmyG
11-29-2010, 10:29 PM
I agree with Jill on all except using black or bright red 1S on anything...heheee....enamel receptive banners are easily found along with coatings....

Mosh specifically stated that He ain't painted a banner in 15 years, so he WAY done forgot how, except what "enamel receptive" whatever to use...LOL

Paint Pusher, if your heart inspires you to paint a banner, the go for it and paint it....1-shot and Ronan will work just fine...
Yeah, digital prints are the easy way, but if ya signmaker heart says paint, then paint that baby and KNOW you still have skills that are not easy but indeed satisfying....

:-)~

paint pusher
11-29-2010, 11:40 PM
Thank you all for your posts I will consider them all.

Firefox
11-30-2010, 01:35 AM
Paint Pusher,

Welcome to the forum.

How about telling us a little about yourself.

Where bouts in CA are you?

Si Allen
11-30-2010, 09:14 AM
Just remember ... enamel paint on a banner WILL NOT DRY ... it will remins sticky!

The plasticizers will migrate into enamel, leaving it wet!


You need a barrier coat to make it enamel receptive.

Ti-coat or even Johnson "Future" floor finish will do the job ... just coat the whole banner with it and use whatever paint that you want on it.

Craig Sjoquist
11-30-2010, 09:33 AM
Paint pusher ... no one mention what paint to use on ..Vinyl Banner material that works well easy to use and so forth ... Ronan's AquaCoat .. it's water based lettering, comes in all the great colors to a gloss and lasts.
I've hand lettering vinyl banners this way for many years and alot of other surfaces.

Like your art work by the way.

I applaud you lettering by hand, here in this town I get alot of work because most shops with vinyl and print do not know how to layout a advertisement but they can push buttons well and real business people understand what good advertisement is and want it to last more then 3 years for permanent signage and for temporary signage like you do it takes to much effort to cut or print unless several so keep on keeping on hand lettering.

You may also want to pick up ..Mike Stevens Mastering Layout book .. it will help a great deal improve your work.

Mal
11-30-2010, 06:23 PM
Hey Paint Pusher

Not enough experience here to advise you definitively, but I'll share what worked for me.
I had to paint several existing bright red awnings that were made of banner material. I cleaned and degreased the bejeezuz out of them, then sprayed them with Krylon Fusion Plastic paint, in an off white colour. It took a few coats to kill the red, but eventually it was good solid coverage. I let it cure for several dry summer days, then laid vinyl graphics on it. I was terrified that the transfer tape would pull up the paint, but it didn't at all. My point in saying this is that the Fusion could be used in your case as a base coat for top painting with your artwork. Just a thought---Mal

Mosh
11-30-2010, 07:12 PM
Ronan's AquaCoat

I forgot about that stuff. We used to do window splashes with it. That might be the ticket!

paint pusher
12-01-2010, 01:09 PM
Thanks guys. I am in northern Ca above Santa Rosa. It gets real cold and rainy here and my garage is not insulated. (drying times) Anyhow, I am having trouble on ordering these things online. Ronan paints, 1 shot clear(5004). I called the local paint store and they dont carry 1 shot primers. also the banners say to clean with de natured alcohol before anything. Would I have to clean it again after that or let it evaporate? I have been busy with other signs and I have today to work on it. I am still trying to figure out the best time on this thing and it sounds like I will have to special order something which ever way I choose. I would like more information on the floor stuff though.
thanks,
Chad.

J Hill Designs
12-01-2010, 01:13 PM
I remember something called "enam-L-kote" or something to that nature for making banners paintable as well...

Billct2
12-01-2010, 01:23 PM
You cannot paint on those banners without some kind of barrier coat, unless you use vinyl inks or waterbased enamels (not latex house paint). Cleaning with alcohol is just to get it ready for applying vinyl (or applying that ti-coat). Your best bet is to order a can of one of the many options listed above (never heard of the floor finish trick).

paint pusher
12-01-2010, 05:40 PM
O.k. here is what i think the verdict is. due to time and cost constraints.I think I will go with the "future" for now and use a japan drier. I was hoping to order some Ronan but I dont think it will get here on time. let me know what you guys think and I will let you know how it turns out.

Gino
12-01-2010, 06:04 PM
You can put all the jap drier in you want.... it's not going to dry unless you clean the banner with alcohol and THEN coat it with ti-coat or some other similar product before applying 1Shot, Ronan or any other paint.... even acrylic paint won't dry.

If you would've planned better, you could've had any of these products on your doorstep with 72 hours or less.

d-signtech
12-01-2010, 06:25 PM
just my two cents, i do alot of hand painted signs. wooden metal plastic etc., im mainly an airbrusher and use createx or auto air paints (waterbased) i can spray or brush onto a banner, then i take an old towel lay it over top, take an iron and crank it high and iron the material to heat set the paint in (hair dryer/heat gun also works) which would help in your environment. ive been doing these practices on all sorts of materials without any failure. ill actually try a banner tonight, (been awhile since i have done one) and let you know of anyother tricks i might come across that i forgot due to second nature of doing it

Mosh
12-01-2010, 06:29 PM
I could have printed 500 banners since this thread started.....

artsnletters
12-01-2010, 07:26 PM
I remember something called "enam-L-kote" or something to that nature for making banners paintable as well...

i have about half a quart of that stuff in my cabinet...just in case....it was made by Best Buy Banner co in Riverside. I believe they quit making it. I keep the leftover amount for doing spare tire covers made of naugahyde. I used to use enamlkote a ton years ago. Now its quicker faster and cheaper to do a digital banner, but truthfully, you couldnt even compare a bitchen roller faded & hand lettered (and maybe airbrushed) banner to the digital one. The colors saturation and impact were much brighter with the paint. At least i think so.
Tim

Billct2
12-01-2010, 08:41 PM
Gino, he said he was going to try Si's suggestion of Johnson Future Finish as the barrier coat. I guess the jap dryer is just to speed the paint drying up, because as we know, ain't nothing going to speed up enamel drying on an uncoated vinyl banner. I had one I did by mistake back when that was still sticky months later.

Patrick46
12-02-2010, 12:35 PM
Does PaintPusher know that there's no money to be made in doing warranty work???


Dude...if you cut corners, due to underbudgeting or lack of prep time (like this sounds like)...you're gonna bomb this job & have to redo it!!! :doh:


I live 3 hours straight up the coast from you, and I paint my banners. I live in the exact same climate as you...so you need to coat it out properly...or in two weeks a very unhappy customer will be banging on your door...TRUST ME!!!
(I'm not at my shop right now, otherwise I'd tell you what I coat mine with)

Good luck man!!

oldgoatroper
12-02-2010, 02:43 PM
I used to paint all my vinyl banners with vinyl silkscreening ink diluted with lacquer thinner... Its a little hard on the quills, but...

Oh, and 3" rollers for covering large areas and filling in large letters...