LCD Monitor

[Colin]

My new AOC 19" LCD monitor seems ok, except when viewing filled color contours or lettering in my sign program and CorelDraw 12. There seems to be a ghost image on the inside of each contour/letter.
The store said that they would swap it for a Dell (I don't know what model #).
How do Dells generally rank for our purposes?

Thanks

[JMDigital]

Did you use an extention on the video cable? Sometimes when you extend the monitor cable you get ghosting...

[Colin]

Nope, just one 26' cable.



(just kiddin' - a 6 footer)



:Big Laugh

[Sabre]

What model is your AOC? I've used a couple of theirs that weren't my favourite, but I hadn't tried any of them for graphics work. I've been pleased with Viewsonic and Phillips so far in LCD, but I've been sticking to my dual Viewsonic P220f CRTs for the graphic work. If they're offering a swap, maybe give the Dell a try and see if it's up to yoru standards. I dont know enough about the nitty gritty details of the LCD specs to tell you what to look for unfortunately.

[Colin]

The AOC is: LM960s

[Sabre]

We have that exact model on one of our tech benches and I can tell you flat out that I dont think that monitor is up to the calibre of work your putting out. Viewsonic's "graphic line" has a VG920 for about the same price as that AOC, or one of the Dell's you were looking at might be good for what you're doing, too. I use a Phillips 190B at home on my daughters machine which has been an amazing monitor for everything I've encountered so far, but I haven't booted into Corel or Flexi to have a look yet. Maybe you should take this oppertunity to go with a widescreen? I'm eyeing up Viewsonics VX2025 for my home machine if my P220s ever die (yeah right :P)

[Colin]

The Dell that they would swap this AOC for is a model E196fp.

I did some Googling and found that the response time is the same (8 ms), but the AOC actually has a higher contrast ratio of 600:1 compared to 500:1 for the Dell.

Is the bigger number good or bad for contrast ratio?

If 500:1 is not as good as 600:1, I'm wondering if the Dell might be a better monitor in spite of that. (?)

[dhamlett15]

I have a dell E196fp and have no problems with gosting.

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

Colin,

The site, www.tomshardware.com (http://www.tomshardware.com) , has many reviews and comparisons on monitors, which should help.

Soon, we will making the jump to an LCD, on my machine. Everybody else, here, is using LCD - but there still are issues of color. My CRT is getting old enough where it losing it brightness (just starting) - so by the end of the year, it will end up being my "TV monitor".

What we have found so far is:

-The faster the response time, the lower the color quality. (25 ms LCD's have the best color, but are worse for games and some movies.)
-Contrast should be at least 500:1, and more is better, BUT brightness should be 300 or higher.

It seems that the LCD's that are gaining the most praise are the Dell's and the Apples. Samsung gets high marks, but they are also the developers and manufacturers of the majority of the displays, Samsung or not.

I, myself, am still stuck on NEC and Sony, which is what I was taught to use as a standard (my current CRT is NEC). I guess we will just see what the end of the year brings...

[Colin]

Awesome, thanks for that George!

[Colin]

Well I got this Dell hooked up and it's doing the exact same thing with the filled vector contours - everything else looks fine.

Hmmmmm.

[jayhawksigns]

Can you try it on another computer? With two different monitors doing it you start to look elsewhere, like maybe the video card, but I would expect more problems to be showing up if that were the case.

[Sabre]

Are you using the VGA or DVI output on the back of your computer? The DVI will be the optimum connection if you have the choice. Appearance-wise the DVI will be the longer rectangle connection.

[Colin]

Further on this.........the present DELL monitor is indeed VGA. The store will bump me up to a Samsung 940BF for an extra $135.00 (brighter and 700:1 contrast ratio). It comes with both VGA and DVI cords, so I'm wondering if I should go with that monitor and pay an extra $80.00 to swap the VGA port on my computer to DVI.

???

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

Colin,

Tech may be able to elaborate more than I but basically all signals are natively DVI, and the VGA is a conversion.

DVI signal >>>> VGA card >>>>> VGA Monitor
DVI signal >>>> DVI card >>>>>conversion>>>>>VGA monitor

I hope I am explaining clearly. The Samsung is one of the best, along with Dell and Apple. The common thought now is to avoid VGA LCD's and be all DVI. Everything is going LCD, and getting although still not 100% sold on color, and for the difference it may be worth it.

How much memory on the card, for the $80?

[Colin]

I dunno. Is this the actual video card that has the monitor port? (shows how much I know about computers).
If so, I guess I should get a better card than an $80.00 one, huh.

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

Yes, the video card has the "port" on it. As for the $80, that was once a very cheap price, but not any longer. My card is a dual-out 256mb, and it cost $125. The "dual out" is for when I do get an LCD, my CRT is going to be used as a TV, unless I get off the money and get to 2 LCD's, for productivity (at least that is the excuse I give).

The whole reason I even have this card, or the machine for that matter is that the boy's machine was hit by lightning - another excuse for ME to get my dual processor, etc. etc. - Otherwise I was running a P4 1800 with a 64mb video, which was still plenty fast, unless applying Photoshop filters.

If you computer is fast enough now, you probably would be just fine with the VGA cable. I will lookup an article regarding icc's where they say that LCD's and digital are actually better than VGA CRT's - dunno.

I just do not have the "true" LCD experience to say one way or another (although I want my desk space BAD). I am wondering who else would know about color and quality - Techman. Barry, Doug - someone - again dunno.

[Colin]

Would really appreciate some additional input on this........is DVI better?

[Pro Image]

Yes DVI is better its all digital............

[DRPSignsNGrafix]

When it comes to the video card. Now adays a 256mb video card is actually good for what we run. I just bought new PC. Mine was having lots of problems. Tired of Reformatting harddrive and the slowness in it. So i went to the best reccomended place in town by lots of comuter geeks. Told them the programs I use and that I have them open all the time. Told them the monitor i have now. And what I wanted to do in the future. This is what i got....

All INTEL stuff. Told a lot more stable.
P4 3.0 Gig CPU Dual Core. The mother board has a 16x video card on it. Tech guy said would be fine for what i do. But if i wanted faster and nicer and the ability to go to Dual Monitors to put a video card in. So he put a 256mb Video card in. Price 69.00. The system has 2gb of ram. small hard drive only 80gb. But i only have programs on it. Everything else is stored on second 160GB harddrive. I use a Pro View 17" Monitor. The whole system was less than $1,000.00 It's got DVD writer, and CD writer, all in one reader and a bunch of other stuff. As well as the OS. So when it comes to video card. It's worth the $70-80 bucks. I run
Flexi Pro 7.6v2, Corel X3, Photoshop CS2 and i like to leave them all open at the same time. I know it use to slow my machine down to a crawl. Now no problem. Plus i'm on the internet. Now i just need to get another LCD monitor. Then i'll be all set. Just my 2 cents.

[Lonely Fisherman]

[quote=DRP2006x]
All INTEL stuff. Told a lot more stable.


LOL! I love that statement..... My question for most computer geeks would be, 'What processor are you running in your own computer?'.

I would be the last one to say which processor is more stable. It's been my experience that the O/S and the programs a user employs have much more to do with stability. There are a ton of benchmarking programs on the internet so it's fairly easy to check your computers' speed and stability.

While I would never list myself as an expert, I've built lots of computers myself with both AMD and INTEL processors. (NewEgg is like a Candy Store to me) Both work well and provide great stability in my opinion. Choosing one over the other is more a matter of personal preference unless the user is prepared to do lots of benchmarking. Computer geeks are susceptible to mass marketing just like the rest of us.

What I can't figure out is this.... Why would a computer geek put a 80gb harddrive in a new computer these days? The difference between a good 320gb and a 80gb harddrive is less than $40 these days.

Fish......

[DRPSignsNGrafix]

I traded off a larger hard drive for free 1gb of ram. I didn't need the big harddrive to store just programs. I use a second 160gb hard drive to store all files on. And that gets backed up on another 160gb external hd and that gets burned to DVD once a month. That's why. Your right as far as what's truely more stable. however I asked quite a few friends who build them. THey agreed for my purposes go intel. So that's what i did.

[Cadmn]

Fish very good observation of geeks being effected by marketing. I give my.05 worth here I've built with AMD for the last 15? years & been very pleased the operating system +combination of programs decide stability I have felt that for the last few years Intel has been focused on the chip for Macs so I don't totally trust their Pc stuff your system speed will always boil down to the slowest ingredient. doesn't Intel VS AMD & Oracal VS GMI ? all come down to personal preference.many sites post details & all details may be read differently according to perspective

[Colin]

Sounds like the classic Chevy vs Ford.

[Lonely Fisherman]

Colin, you're right on.... Classic Chevy vs. Ford..

DRP, If you don't need the storage space, the trade for an extra gig of memory is a good move in my humble opinion. If you keep the extra crap off the HD and stick with a good virus software, you'll do just fine with that.

I tend to keep large amounts of data and since I play with home video, my little 200gig drives get pretty full. I have to admit that memory is just as important as the HD's when I'm editing videos. I have mine maxed out at 4gig and what a difference it makes.

Cadmn, I like to build computers with both AMD & INTEL but it seems like the pocketbook is a bigger factor in my decisions most of the time. AMD tends to win out in that category so I've built more with AMD's. I'm building a new unit right now for myself, my old unit will go to a 10-year old friend of mine when I'm done. (I was thinking about finding someone to print a stars and stripes type wrap to cover the housing on it) This will be the first 64-bit unit I've built.

I've been working off of a single 19" LCD monitor but once this rig is ready, I'm planning to buy a pair from NewEgg and operate my video editing with dual monitors. It's a good way to kill off a few hours making a few minutes worth of video. LOL

Best wishes,

Fish....

[Fred Weiss]

I just hooked up my first LCD monitor to an existing P4 using the built in VGA. The monitor is a Samsung SyncMaster 204B 20.1".

While the increased size over the 19" CRT I was using is a noticeable improvement, I'm a bit disappointed with the color quality and the less than sharp display of text and finer detail.

Will switching to a DVI video card provide any improvement in display quality?

[Lonely Fisherman]

Hi Fred,

Since you're concerned with the 'less than sharp' images you are getting, you might want to check the monitor and see if you're running it in it's native resolution. That usually helps resolve most of the fuzzy effects.

I've never compared analog monitors next to a digital but my guess is that you would notice it right away. I run dual 19" monitors at work and here at home along with a laptop. When I bought the two monitors, I bought a dual DVI card, installed it and hooked up the monitors. It would have been a good chance to compare, but I never thought about it. Guess I was too excited to get everything up and running.

Good luck with your new monitor!

fish....

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

Fred,

It is funny that we agree. An article in the trade magazines, a few months ago, states that the color is better with an LCD and DVI. "They" (the experts) also claim that LCD should be used with DVI - and this does make sense (VGA is actually a conversion process).

In our case, I do not mind spending money on the computer - as long as it will work. Our current card is the PowerColor (ATI chip), 256mb, PCI Express. It was fairly cheap enough, as I remember spending lots more for the old Diamond Stealths (my favorite).

A 128mb, single port AGP card, should be fairly cheap. The boy's sports an nVidia 256mb AGP, and it was $49 from Newegg, six months ago.

PLEASE, if you get a new card, post your experience. Our needs are different from gamers and video buffs. This makes it difficult to get real-world results. (At least for us)

[The Vector Doctor]

Fred, I have that exact monitor hooked up as a 2nd monitor for my Mac laptop. It hooks up via a dvi connection and I must say that the image is very good. I also have it hooked up to an old Blue and White G3 Mac via the 2nd port in the back which is vga. The DVI image is better, IMO

I did have to turn down the brightness to about 40% as the factory default is way too bright.

You can also try the 2nd button from the left which brings up the magic bright menu display which allows you to pick from "text, internet, game, sport, movie" and has different default settings for color and brightness.

Keep in mind that it is a relatively inexpensive 20" lcd. There are other 20" monitors that are considerably more expensive at that size so I imagine there are differences in color fidelity and crispness in the panel that justify the price. I looked at many for several months before purchasing the Samsung and came to the conclusion it was a good value. I think you would see a difference though if you used DVI.

[Fred Weiss]

Thank you all. I will be ordering a DVI card and will revisit this thread after I get it installed.

[The Vector Doctor]

Fred, I cannot say for sure on Windows machines, but on the mac there is a function for font smoothing one of which is called "medium - best for flat panel". I wonder if there isn't something similar on PC's and their display properties that would adjust fonts for your display now that you have moved from a CRT to a LCD.

[Fred Weiss]

Fred, I cannot say for sure on Windows machines, but on the mac there is a function for font smoothing one of which is called "medium - best for flat panel". I wonder if there isn't something similar on PC's and their display properties that would adjust fonts for your display now that you have moved from a CRT to a LCD.

I think there may be but your suggestion of adjusting the MagicBright settings to "Text" provided a big improvement.