S101 Union Poll

[Adtechia]

This is a poll to see how many would support and join an S101 union. Then we can ask Fred about it depending on the results.

I have NO PLAN at all. This is just an idea I wanted to kick around and throw out there. Don't ask me about the benefits of it. I don't know what if any, it would offer as I didn't think about it much past the poll you see.

[fenris242]

Please explain what you mean by "union?"

[T3]

In a heart beat!! :Big Laugh So long as we never actually go on strike! :omg2:

Forgot to add... as long as I can pay the Union Dues in Canadian Loonies too! :Big Laugh And no crying to us Canadians because we would have a better health plan. :noway: And we would want the Union to negotiate FREE cross-boarder shipping. :Big Laugh AND, last but not least... only Union members get to see the famous "THING" I sent to Gino! :popcorn:

[Gino]

Would or could you elaborate how this would help or benefit anyone and where will the union dues go ??

Also, if you set up a union here, for those that can't afford to join or don't want to join, will they be forced from this site ??

[Adtechia]

Please explain what you mean by "union?"

Well, there has been some threads on here about customers requesting union made decals etc..etc.. why shouldn't we have a S101 union that would allow us to do things like that.

I don't know whether or not Unions can negotiate for Group Health Plans..but it would be interesting to find out. Anyone who knows chime in with an answer please.

[Techman]

What we need a union for?
To protect some sloth or drinker from being fired?

[njshorts]

only union i'd ever join...

let's keep dues low and either hang onto em for members in need or for a worthwhile charity.

[Adtechia]

Would or could you elaborate how this would help or benefit anyone and where will the union dues go ??

Also, if you set up a union here, for those that can't afford to join or don't want to join, will they be forced from this site ??

I am not laying out a plan for it, Gino. You pose a good question though.

I figure if their is interest in it a those details could be researched and discussed further. This is more to see if there would be interest.

[signswi]

This is an absurd concept and shows complete ignorance of what a union actually is. My guess is you guys are trying to get around union shop requirements which is just skeezy.

[Marlene]

I totally don't get your point in all of this?

in case you haven't noticed, we are a group

[Pat Whatley]

Dammit, I hit the wrong button. No I wouldn't join. I'm a one man union and damn happy about it. I go on strike when I want to and meet my own demands as I wish.

[Fred Weiss]

In my view, the appropriate role for Signs 101 is to evolve into an association ... not a union. This was attempted in some depth, to the point of actually creating a charter and a set of by-laws. We then held an election of officers and a board of directors.

Unfortunately, the results were less than satisfactory and the idea was abandoned.

[signage]

Dammit, I hit the wrong button. No I wouldn't join. I'm a one man union and damn happy about it. I go on strike when I want to and meet my own demands as I wish.

+1:thumb::iamwithstupid

[Marlene]

Fred, the site is great just the way it is. we have members from all over the world, with all levels of experience in so many areas of the sign biz and related to the sign biz. what more could anyone want?

[Adtechia]

I like the idea of a trade association. I have belonged to many different trade associations. They were very beneficial. Signs 101 would make a great trade association. Its not to far of stretch from what Fred has built already.

[Pat Whatley]

I don't know whether or not Unions can negotiate for Group Health Plans..but it would be interesting to find out. Anyone who knows chime in with an answer please.

We looked into it years ago thinking we could partner a bunch of shops together nationwide and apply for a group rate. The main problem we kept running into was the it's written state by state so we'd have to have a large enough group out of one state to even begin to qualify. Then you have requirements on keeping the number of people paying into the till that the group was based on so if a couple of shops dropped out after a couple of months the rest would have to pick up the tab. The problems just kept piling up until it became apparent that to try and pull it off was going to take a dedicated staff and enough cash up front to pre-pay the entire term each time. Ended up being far too many headaches to be worth what little it was going to save us.

Doesn't matter anyway....Obama made healthcare free, remember?




Unfortunately, the results were less than satisfactory and the idea was abandoned.
Man, Fred, you should go into public relations. :ROFLMAO:

[SignaramaFL]

not too sure what the benefits would be to this.... maybe more explanation?

[MikePro]

I like the idea, especially if you're able to contribute to my 401k

[Fred Weiss]

Man, Fred, you should go into public relations. :ROFLMAO:

http://www.signs101.com/images/blondie.gif It's called gilding the lily.

[njshorts]

not too sure what the benefits would be to this.... maybe more explanation?

'legitimate' use of a union bug.



...and that's pretty much it. aside from making a mockery of a life-sucking trade force that outgrew it's usefulness in the 70s.

[briankb]

This is an absurd concept and shows complete ignorance of what a union actually is. My guess is you guys are trying to get around union shop requirements which is just skeezy.

It's pretty sleezy and stupid to require your vendors to be union or you don't do business with them. Seems like a very cult like mentality and doesn't really benefit anyone.

[bob]

What possible benefit would accrue to me by being a member of some collective?

[Coloradosigns]

What possible benefit would accrue to me by being a member of some collective?

You're not invited!! :cool:

[SignaramaFL]

'legitimate' use of a union bug.



...and that's pretty much it. aside from making a mockery of a life-sucking trade force that outgrew it's usefulness in the 70s.

haha fair enough, ya I know my grandpa was in a union but still not too sure what they are there for...

[Fred Weiss]

not too sure what the benefits would be to this.... maybe more explanation?

A union or an association?

A union is an organization that represents members who are workers in negotiations with owners and management. Unions may or may not supply health and retirement benefits, education and certification. An association is an organization made up of members who have a common interest or profession. Benefits are numerous including:


Development of educational materials, classes, etc.
Certification of members.
Development of marketing materials.
Group health and retirement benefits.
Representation in governmental regulation matters.
Local, regional, national and international structure.
Conventions and meetings.

[SlightlyChilled]

I swear Addi you post just to post sometimes

[signage]

Fred are you like Jim Hoffa:rolleyes::help

[Fred Weiss]

Fred are you like Jim Hoffa:rolleyes::help

Not that I know of. I'm easy enough to locate and I'm not at war with the tea party or anyone else who doesn't share my views. I'm more like a doting father waiting patiently for his kids to start acting like adults. :ROFLMAO:

[petesign]

I'm more like a doting father waiting patiently for his kids to start acting like adults. :ROFLMAO:

Good luck with that one! Now, if you will excuse me, I am off to laugh at more bathroom humor.

[petepaz]

Fred, the site is great just the way it is. we have members from all over the world, with all levels of experience in so many areas of the sign biz and related to the sign biz. what more could anyone want?
:thumb:

i think this union idea could ruin an already good site
we already pay/donate to cover the costs and get special benefits regular
members don't get for that. we have all benefited and also helped others benefit from this site.....if it's not broke don't fix it

[SignaramaFL]

A union or an association?

A union is an organization that represents members who are workers in negotiations with owners and management. Unions may or may not supply health and retirement benefits, education and certification. An association is an organization made up of members who have a common interest or profession. Benefits are numerous including:


Development of educational materials, classes, etc.
Certification of members.
Development of marketing materials.
Group health and retirement benefits.
Representation in governmental regulation matters.
Local, regional, national and international structure.
Conventions and meetings.



That question what for the union, and thank you for the clarification.

[Marlene]

What possible benefit would accrue to me by being a member of some collective?

we are Borg and you are part of our collective all ready...resistance is futile

[SignaramaFL]

we are Borg and you are part of our collective all ready...resistance is futile

haha

[OldPaint]

union rules would never apply to this site. none of us have to have a spokesperson, safety program, wage setting, some type of accident protection, maybe a retirement fund. and we dont have disputes with how the owner is paying us, over working us, or just misusing us.
like fred said, an ASSOCIATION, or a FRATERNITY is more applicable.
how many belong to:
AMERICAN LEGION
DAV or AMVETS, or VFW?
MOOSE, ELKS, EAGLES?
MASONS or SHRINERS?
or PHI CAPA DELTA, etc?
this is more how we are as i see it.

[Cross Signs]

...and that's pretty much it. aside from making a mockery of a life-sucking trade force that outgrew it's usefulness in the 70s.

The 50's

[WildWestDesigns]

The 50's

Naw, it was useful longer then that. My grandma is apart of a teachers union. Got a helluva good retirement package because of it. Teachers now don't have such benefits. I think whoever pays her retirement is waiting for the 97 yr old broad to croak so they don't have anyone left to pay that good retirement to.

[Coloradosigns]

This (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2003/10/30/unions-good-or-bad.aspx) sums up why some think their good, and others... bad

[Gino]

So I take it, no one is gonna send a fruit basket to my wife when I die, if I don't join Addie's union.

Hey, what town hall or place is Addie gonna hold these meetings ??

[Adtechia]

So I take it, no one is gonna send a fruit basket to my wife when I die, if I don't join Addie's union.

Hey, what town hall or place is Addie gonna hold these meetings ??

Hey, Gino. I am not promoting, sponsoring, or leading this idea. I just tossed it out there jokingly on a previous thread and some people responded positively. I just threw it out for you guys to discuss and bat around.

I like Fred's & OP's suggestion of an Association better myself.

[routierracing]

I can't imagine being "union" would really translate to bringing in enough revenue from union clients to justify the trouble and cost. Besides after you quote the work they will just pickett until you give them a better quote. lol

[Williams Signs]

An association would have great benefits. The best one would to be able to negoiate and help supply the smaller shops with affordable health insurance.

[iSign]

An association is an organization made up of members who have a common interest or profession. Benefits are numerous including:


Development of educational materials, classes, etc.
Certification of members.
Development of marketing materials.
Group health and retirement benefits.
Representation in governmental regulation matters.
Local, regional, national and international structure.
Conventions and meetings.


In my view, the appropriate role for Signs 101 is to evolve into an association...

This was attempted in some depth, to the point of actually creating a charter and a set of by-laws. We then held an election of officers and a board of directors.

Unfortunately, the results were less than satisfactory and the idea was abandoned.

if an "association" were to be like a "destination"... I would offer an alternate perspective of what was "attempted in some depth" ..as well as some alternate "destinations"....

From my perception, through the creation of a charter & by-laws, a "vehicle" was created, with one or more destinations loosely in mind, the foremost of which was creating an "entity" under which ownership & operating decisions for Signs101 could potentially transfer over to, from it's current sole proprietorship status.

While the above list of association benefits above is not unfamiliar, I don't think any of those things were ever attempted in depth, because they are examples of the scenery one might seek, after arriving at the "destination"...

The "vehicle" was by no means running like a well oiled machine at the time "the idea was abandoned" , but in my opinion, it was a fully operational vehicle, built to a fully functional degree of road worthiness, and in whatever boneyard it currently resides, I still have little doubt it was built well enough that it could circumnavigate the information highway for many many years, given the right crew, and more importantly, a consensus on the right destination(s)

The problem I saw, was that a handful of folks agreed to go for a ride, but spent time building a vehicle instead. Without doubt, a vehicle is a good thing to have when going for a ride... but if you imagine a bunch of sugar crazed children crammed into the backseat of the family station wagon, bound for the promise of Disneyland... and then imagine those kids having to build the station wagon first...

...well, the promise of Disneyland was never realized because the bunch of sugar crazed children exhausted their interest in cramming into the same vehicle by the time the vehicle was built...

If the vehicle had been built privately, and then a crew selected (or elected(?) ...but that's another topic) ..I think the very same vehicle could have went much further with the very same children... er, I mean crew.

I could go on, but I'm getting flashbacks of exhaust fumes, Dramamine, slug-bug & cheap truck stop coffee :rock-n-roll:

[CentralSigns]

Put the name union in the association name and we can bid on all the union jobs. As far as collective agreements giving benefits and what ever your stupid to think that way. That wasn't the point, see as soon as you say union everyone wants something. I think the whole idea is to allow us to get work were we currently can't unless we are a unionized shop. To create a union may give us access to these jobs. I would guess that the union sign jobs would be better paying, cause they know they are paying a fair rate for the labor, and not min allowed by law. Think on that a min.

[Gino]

if an "association" were to be like a "destination"... I would offer an alternate perspective of what was "attempted in some depth" ..as well as some alternate "destinations"....

From my perception, through the creation of a charter & by-laws, a "vehicle" was created, with one or more destinations loosely in mind, the foremost of which was creating an "entity" under which ownership & operating decisions for Signs101 could potentially transfer over to, from it's current sole proprietorship status.

While the above list of association benefits above is not unfamiliar, I don't think any of those things were ever attempted in depth, because they are examples of the scenery one might seek, after arriving at the "destination"...

The "vehicle" was by no means running like a well oiled machine at the time "the idea was abandoned" , but in my opinion, it was a fully operational vehicle, built to a fully functional degree of road worthiness, and in whatever boneyard it currently resides, I still have little doubt it was built well enough that it could circumnavigate the information highway for many many years, given the right crew, and more importantly, a consensus on the right destination(s)

The problem I saw, was that a handful of folks agreed to go for a ride, but spent time building a vehicle instead. Without doubt, a vehicle is a good thing to have when going for a ride... but if you imagine a bunch of sugar crazed children crammed into the backseat of the family station wagon, bound for the promise of Disneyland... and then imagine those kids having to build the station wagon first...

...well, the promise of Disneyland was never realized because the bunch of sugar crazed children exhausted their interest in cramming into the same vehicle by the time the vehicle was built...

If the vehicle had been built privately, and then a crew selected (or elected(?) ...but that's another topic) ..I think the very same vehicle could have went much further with the very same children... er, I mean crew.

I could go on, but I'm getting flashbacks of exhaust fumes, Dramamine, slug-bug & cheap truck stop coffee :rock-n-roll:



:ROFLMAO: that brought back so many memories that I thought I had squashed outa my wittle bwain.
Without going back into it, maybe we didn't get to Dinsneyland, but it was still one heck of a ride... ya gotta admit that much. :thumb:

I learned a great deal of things during that and am still using them to this day. In fact, I was just at a meeting Tuesday night discussing Robert's Rules and the By-Laws of a private club where I belong. Even the club's two lawyers admitted they weren't quite up on these rules and said.... we don't have to really follow them, do we ??

Anyway, thanks again Doug, for some really eye opening experiences and stimulating conversations. :U Rock:

[iSign]

Think on that a min.
ah, yeah... you first :rolleyes:

[iSign]

...thanks again Doug... :U Rock:

you're welcome :thumb:

[greenmachine]

If people won't/don't join the Premium Subscriber section, why would they join a union?

[GypsyGraphics]

hey, i could be the union steward, i even have experience!

i was a union steward for several years at Hughes Aircraft.
it was pretty fun, until i got canned for distributing anti-union buttons.

when i was given the buttons they said "I DON'T WANT TO STRIKE, BUT I WILL"
but when i handed them out they said "I DON'T WANT TO STRIKE, SO I WON'T"

i told them i wouldn't feel right asking people to wear buttons i didn't agree with
i was the only female steward and would you believe the big bullies actually said to me... "you'll do as your told"
:tongue:
dumb boys

[iSign]

...i got canned for distributing anti-union buttons.

...they said "I DON'T WANT TO STRIKE, BUT I WILL"
but when i handed them out they said "I DON'T WANT TO STRIKE, SO I WON'T"

:tongue:
dumb boys


they didn't like you tampering with their buttons?
sheesh.. they really were dumb boys :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[GypsyGraphics]

they didn't like you tampering with their buttons?
sheesh.. they really were dumb boys :rolleyes::rolleyes:

oh yeah... well... it was them saying "do as you're told" and actually thinking i would, that made them "dumb boys"...
and i'd tamper with you buttons too, if you thought you were the boss of me!!! :tongue:

[charissabuskirk]

This is a poll to see how many would support and join an S101 union. Then we can ask Fred about it depending on the results.

I have NO PLAN at all. This is just an idea I wanted to kick around and throw out there. Don't ask me about the benefits of it. I don't know what if any, it would offer as I didn't think about it much past the poll you see.


Seriously Addie, my first reaction when I see you've started a post....:covereyes:

[Adtechia]

Seriously Addie, my first reaction when I see you've started a post....:covereyes:

and I care about your opinion why??

You don't know me you haven't been around long enough to know me. Since you have been on what a few weeks you think you can fit in with the big boys by trashing me. I have yet to see you contribute anything of value to anyone. So excuse me while I go try and give a $hit. (second cup of coffee gets me every time)

[charissabuskirk]

and I care about your opinion why??

You don't know me you haven't been around long enough to know me. Since you have been on what a few weeks you think you can fit in with the big boys by trashing me. I have yet to see you contribute anything of value to anyone. So excuse me while I go try and give a $hit. (second cup of coffee gets me every time)

Because I have, now, 16 posts to my name doesn't mean that I'm not aware of who you are here. In all honesty, it wasn't a complete bash on you, but you automatically went there because of the treatment you get here. And since you've pushed it in that direction....

Do you honestly think you HELP people here? My contribution to YOU would be: Keep your fingers off the keyboard, read and read some more, try to absorb some the of knowledge, and keep a low profile unless you have some valuable piece of advice to give.

:birthday:

[Adtechia]

Because I have, now, 16 posts to my name doesn't mean that I'm not aware of who you are here. In all honesty, it wasn't a complete bash on you, but you automatically went there because of the treatment you get here. And since you've pushed it in that direction....

Do you honestly think you HELP people here? My contribution to YOU would be: Keep your fingers off the keyboard, read and read some more, try to absorb some the of knowledge, and keep a low profile unless you have some valuable piece of advice to give.

:birthday:

Why don't you take your own advice. Why don't you spend some time reading my posts, and keep your posts to yourself.

You will see the help I give to many noobs and others who have been here longer. I may not know everything their is to know about everything but running my own businesses for over the last 15 years has given me quite a bit of knowledge to pass along, and its useful for those that pull their heads out of their a$$es long enough to read it.

[Pat Whatley]

Don't listen to that advice Addie...post all you want about anything you want. This place is boring as hell when everybody is being too polite or too scared to post anything.

[charissabuskirk]

Why don't you take your own advice. Why don't you spend some time reading my posts, and keep your posts to yourself.


I have read your posts, most of them. Enough said.

[Adtechia]

Don't listen to that advice Addie...post all you want about anything you want. This place is boring as hell when everybody is being too polite or too scared to post anything.

Thank for the support Pat. I know we don't always see eye to eye, but I roll with the punches.

Your right this place would suck if it was all polite all the time. When I want politeness I can go to church. I come here to slug it out and share. This place is better than my neighborhood bar.

[Gino]

Addie, Addie, Addie..................

What are we going to do with you ??


chari, you definitely catch on quickly. You got him pegged perfectly. Addie has this thing in his head that he knows what he's talking about, but yet he backpedals just about everything he says or does.

I'm not here to bash the poor sole, but others should be weary of his contributions for their lack of content or insight.... when it comes to signs or sign making, from the digital end to the die-cut vinyls and especially to the hand-made items. He has nothing to offer, but again, has it in his head that he has some experience on these things...... when the guy has admitted he's a broker and not capable of doing anything in-house.... especially designing. He offers to pay people and then forgets to make payments. He asks people for prices and then denies he ever did it..... only to do it all over again.

The only reason he has a high post count is due to his constant barrage of empty posts.


:rock-n-roll:

[Adtechia]

Addie, Addie, Addie..................

What are we going to do with you ??


chari, you definitely catch on quickly. You got him pegged perfectly. Addie has this thing in his head that he knows what he's talking about, but yet he backpedals just about everything he says or does.

I'm not here to bash the poor sole, but others should be weary of his contributions for their lack of content or insight.... when it comes to signs or sign making, from the digital end to the die-cut vinyls and especially to the hand-made items. He has nothing to offer, but again, has it in his head that he has some experience on these things...... when the guy has admitted he's a broker and not capable of doing anything in-house.... especially designing. He offers to pay people and then forgets to make payments. He asks people for prices and then denies he ever did it..... only to do it all over again.

The only reason he has a high post count is due to his constant barrage of empty posts.

:rock-n-roll:


Gino, Gino, Gino, When will you ever learn reading comprehension?? Have I ever claimed to know squat about digital printing?? I have ever offered advice to anyone on digital printing or making of a sign?? NO!

As for you comments about me not paying someone. Your talking out your a$$ once again, as that was resolved between me and the other party a while ago. It was none of your business as you weren't involved in the proceeding. So quit lying about me!!

I have offered advice based on my experiences. Such as screenprint, embroidery, promotional products and business management etc...

I am sorry my business model continues to offend you Gino. I guess the fact that I have managed to make a profit in a business without having to spend out thousands of dollars on equipment and employees really just must bother you. Since you have that huge shop to maintain and all.

You claim us brokers as lowly yet, you brag all the time about doing wholesale work for others in your area. That puts them in the category of brokers too.

So, the way I figure it. You just like to run you mouth because you got nothing better to do or anything positive to contribute to society.

Frankly, I am sick of listening to your self-righteous whining and so are many others on here. Go shove a sock in that mouth of yours for once, and let me be really clear.

NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK!!! NO ONE CARES THAT I OFFERED TO SEND YOU WORK AND YOU TURNED IT AWAY!!! NO ONE CARES!!

Did you manage to comprehend that Gino? or should I attach it to a Chipmunk and you can drown him in your bucket and find the message.

[slipperyfrog]

This discussion has eroded to what my thoughts are on a typical union...

A Signs101 association sounds interesting though.