window perf

[2 see signz]

window perf keeps lifting on edges....
i had it printed and laminated by a well know sign place that does heaps of my work, no probs until this one..

i installed dry.
cut around edges and used a 6mm pin stripe to seal it, but the corners keep lifting

any suggestions...

[All-SignZ]

What did you use to prep the window? Also whenever we do window perf we cut the edges 1/4" from edge of window or until the edge is on glass (some rear windows have a rubber like edge all the way around)

[2 see signz]

What did you use to prep the window? Also whenever we do window perf we cut the edges 1/4" from edge of window or until the edge is on glass (some rear windows have a rubber like edge all the way around)

windex, glass cleaner, then prepsol.
yep cut the 1/4" , i belive i have done everything right, no differant to the other jobs and they are all great still.

[Speedsterbeast]

First of all, I would suggest you take windex out of your install kit and never mention it again. Try using Isopropyl Alcohol to clean with.
May not be the cause of this particular problem, but it may be in the future.
Also, I had a problem with a farmed out laminate job for a wall mural. The print was curled upwards or "away from the wall" so it peeled becasue it was a low-strength adhesive on the media.

[SightLine]

We never trim perf back from the edges but we always do use primer 95 about a half inchec all the way around the edges and clean with alcohol first.

[Circleville Signs]

I know that people will start pelting me when I say this, but unless your state requires it, DO NOT LAMINATE PERF!!!!!!!!

[Hicalibersigns]

I know that people will start pelting me when I say this, but unless your state requires it, DO NOT LAMINATE PERF!!!!!!!!

Why? Care to elucidate?

[Circleville Signs]

Absolutely..

1. Perf lays down better and stays down better when there isn't laminate there to trap air and dust during installation.

2. Without laminate, it is difficult to see through perf in the rain. With laminate, it is difficult to see through perf at all times.

3. Regardless of what manufacturers try to sell you on, perf doesn't fade too badly unless you are in a state like Florida or Texas - and I believe it is a DOT requirement to lam in Florida - not sure on Texas.

4. With all of the above being true, why incur higher costs with the addition of laminate?

[MikePatterson]

prepsol or the laminate might be your problem. We use alcohol instead of any type of prepsol. We wash with a decent dish washing soap like joy (unscented) it strips wax and oils off, then load up a spray bottle with 70% alcohol and clean it with that.

As for laminating perf, we don't laminate it, we spray it. We use a auto rattle can clear. My customers *****ed about optically clear still being blurry so we switched. I don't care if you cant see out of it during a rain storm, can you see that well out of your back glass in the rain anyway.

[john1]

I use the Solvex and Lamex combo from Fellers and have had no issues with lifting. I use a fresh xacto and trim to the edge. I use Rapid Tac to clean the edges and the entire window.

I have perf on for about 6 months now and looks good as new.

[AceHigh]

I second the no laminate, and yes I got pelted pretty hard by others on here about it. But I just tell the customers up front and in my opinion there are way less problems and I have not had anyone complain about. Who cares, you can't see through a window when it rains anyway!!
I know the haters are gonna be all over me for this.

[omgsideburns]

We never lam perf, but everyone has an opinion.

[binki]

how about on storefront windows, no laminate? We don't print, just contract out and install so we go with the recommended way to do it from the vendor.

[copythat]

I know that people will start pelting me when I say this, but unless your state requires it, DO NOT LAMINATE PERF!!!!!!!!


I have never laminated any of my perf'd windows. I have had edges curl up after 6 or 7 months. Then I would trim off the same ¼" and it was done.

Going to trim off ¼" from now on. I've have a supermarket just 4 blocks from me that had there windows perf'd & laminated. It created a nausea effect. You really couldn't look out the window without getting quizzie. They are going back to paper signs, once they all peel off.



Sign Up!

[wildside]

we always laminate, and don't get the dizzy effect, or the difficult to see through, i think it looks like a tinted window from a distance

i have had it on my truck in the past with and without laminate, without laminate was a pain in the *** with all the dust collecting in the holes and of course the rain

what kind of rain are you getting that you can't see out a window when it rains anyway? some serious acid rain or what?

[copythat]

what kind of rain are you getting that you can't see out a window when it rains anyway? some serious acid rain or what?[/QUOTE]

LOLOLOLOL


We brush on clear shield on perf for vehicles. But not on store fronts.




Sign Up!

[Coloradosigns]

I know that people will start pelting me when I say this, but unless your state requires it, DO NOT LAMINATE PERF!!!!!!!!

um, i 100% agree. Lam on perf is trash IMO. it starts flaking off and makes the Perf look like AIDS. Just better to not do it.

[Hicalibersigns]

Very interesting. We are relatively new to this. We have been laminating perf for vehicles. Fading here in Texas is definitely an issue. I see so many vehicles that have been wrapped that look pretty good except for the unlaminated perf. It is so faded that it is hard to tell that it was ever printed in the first place. So far we haven't had any issues, but time will tell.

[petepaz]

from previous experiences i have to agree with gary don't lam. have had issues with edges curling twice and finally got it to work with 3m EDGE SEALING TAPE and also still globbed some 3M edge sealer around the edges. the last one i did i had to re-do because they couldn't see out the window so from now on no lam on perf for me.

[jhilldesigns]

... look like AIDS...

Ive heard you mention this a few times what does it mean?

[rushworks graphics]

Ive heard you mention this a few times what does it mean?

same here......i think it means it looks like crap after awhile!!

[2 see signz]

thanks for all the replys....just done another install without lam. lets see how this goes...
and windex has been taken home...lol thanks for the tip.
is methylated sprits a good cleaner?

[Coloradosigns]

thanks for all the replys....just done another install without lam. lets see how this goes...
and windex has been taken home...lol thanks for the tip.
is methylated sprits a good cleaner?

Just use alcohol.

[anotherdog]

to laminate or not? I'm just not happy with any solution;

No lam fades, fills with dirt, water and ice, but goes on easily.

Ordinary lam looks great...from the outside, can't see through it though.

Optically clear lam is great, but so thin that you easily get a tiny dome balloon over half the holes.

I have never used liquid lam on perf, does it work?

[binki]

we clean with grafix gone and follow with alcohol. the corners of windows are a mother but other than that we do well with it. we use the blue toss paper towels for all of the cleaning for a lint free finish.

we are going to redo our truck window so it looks like we will do it with no lam to see how it comes out.

thanks for the thread.

[SightLine]

I've found that avoiding too much air in the holes when it's laminated is all about installation technique. Also to keep perf from peeling up at the edges brush about a 3/8" strip of primer around the edges prior to application. I've used a few different brand of optically clear laminate over the years and have had the best luck with Oracal 290GF. If you put some cheap calendered lam on top - yeah expect some shrinking. You must also inform your customer to NOT direct high pressure water on it up close or it will leave marks. To keep it looking it best and to keep it nice and clear for the vest visibility you also need to inform the customer to WAX the laminated perf a couple of times a year with a good synthetic wax. It makes a big difference in visibility out. As far as application goes - my best method has been prep the glass first - if any hint of rain-x or an7ything clean it with a solvent like xylene(xylol) first. Then alcohol till it's super clean, then primer the edge of the glass. Apply with a good felt egde squeegee like a geek wrap one (what I use) with a LIGHT pressure and making certain no vinyl lays down before the squeegee. The squeegee needs to lightly apply it. Too much pressure and/or it hitting before will trap too much air and also leave squeegee marks. Some squeege marks are ineveitable though and they will go away with a bit of time out in the sun for the most part.

With primer on the edges, a special application technique, the right laminate, and proper customer education on perf care, perf works great, looks great and lasts for a few years with no problems at all and does not peel up at the edges.


to laminate or not? I'm just not happy with any solution;

No lam fades, fills with dirt, water and ice, but goes on easily.

Ordinary lam looks great...from the outside, can't see through it though.

Optically clear lam is great, but so thin that you easily get a tiny dome balloon over half the holes.

I have never used liquid lam on perf, does it work?

[boxerbay]

OP - dont use windex. clean the glass especially the rubber gaskets with simple green then follow up with alcohol. the good alcohol you can get from paper suppliers like mac paper. we never have any problems with corner curls and some prints have been up a couple years already.

no lam? wow. why would you not upsale the client and have them decide.

cant see out? use optically clear.

use the correct media!

problem is people try to use the cheapest materials with the cheapest lam and expect it to be A W E S O M E.

there is cast and calendered perf. offer the upgraded media.

offer the client:
perf only - explain it will fade and gets dirt - $
perf plus reg lam - explain about milky see thru - $$ - i never offer this but it seems some do.
perf plus OC lam - explain this is the best - $$$

Q to client: which do you prefer?

my guess is aside from using windex or not cleaning properly - people may be mixing cast and calendared perf/lam combo and one is shrinking faster than the other.