Bringing back the NHB

[shakey0818]

Do you think the NHb section should be started again but without politica/religin?

yes
no
i dont care



*I am not really trying to bring it back to life.I am looking to see how people people feel now that it has been gone for awhile and if they would like to see it again.

[shakey0818]

Not sure how a poll is set up or even if it would be an appropriate one.Sorry Fred if i am messing things up.

[SignManiac]

No

[SignosaurusRex]

No

[bob]

Yes, of course.

For all those who respond 'No':

Would you be deprived of some benefit currently being enjoyed?

Would your spine curve or hair grow in the palms of your hands if there were to exist a place where people were free to express an actual unabashed opinion?

Would you be harmed by this in any way?

Would you be forced to participate in some way or another?

Has any human being ever been harmed by words and/or ideas no matter how much you might disagree with them? That's actually harmed, experiencing something you might find distasteful or unpleasant that might offend your delicate sensibilities does not count a harm in the real world.

Or, as is more likely, you possess a not uncommon streak of puritanical zeal, especially when it comes to others possibly enjoying themselves?

Be honest, try to discard all of the inane rationalizations against having the NHB back; is it Yet Another manifestation of the unfortunate human tendency to want to control others?

Do you have anything resembling a sound and valid reason for stifling a free exchange of ideas?

Do you feel that there exists ideas and notions which should not be heard?

[Coloradosigns]

the nhb was bobs wet dream

[Craig Sjoquist]

NO

[kraigsnowden]

the nhb was bobs wet dream

LOL @ This.

NO!

I think Bob just is pro anti, so whatever anyone else likes or dislikes, he's the opposite.

[Techman]

no way..
It is a pox on any forum that uses that model

[Fred Weiss]

Do you think the NHb section should be started again but without politica/religin?

yes
no
i dont care



*I am not really trying to bring it back to life.I am looking to see how people people feel now that it has been gone for awhile and if they would like to see it again.

Your question is an oxymoron. Without politics and religion as acceptable topics, the only difference remaining would be the allowing of profanities and obscenities. Better than 90% of what was posted up to the point it was turned off was either political or religious.

On a practical level, a number of members had or were about to stop participating here because of the NHB forums ... some had a significant amount of useful information contributed and the potential for much more. In addition, there was a growing amount of inappropriate language finding its way into the open forums. When private message requests and warnings didn't stop it, this forced my reluctant decision to turn on the forum software's censorship features along with keyword monitoring for certain words that would not work correctly with the automated censoring. Since the forum censoring module is a global feature, that means that even the previously allowed open language would not work if the NHB were reactivated.

So what's left? What would you use the NHB for at this point?

[Fred Weiss]

Yes, of course.

For all those who respond 'No':

Would you be deprived of some benefit currently being enjoyed?

Would your spine curve or hair grow in the palms of your hands if there were to exist a place where people were free to express an actual unabashed opinion?

Would you be harmed by this in any way?

Would you be forced to participate in some way or another?

Has any human being ever been harmed by words and/or ideas no matter how much you might disagree with them? That's actually harmed, experiencing something you might find distasteful or unpleasant that might offend your delicate sensibilities does not count a harm in the real world.

Or, as is more likely, you possess a not uncommon streak of puritanical zeal, especially when it comes to others possibly enjoying themselves?

Be honest, try to discard all of the inane rationalizations against having the NHB back; is it Yet Another manifestation of the unfortunate human tendency to want to control others?

Do you have anything resembling a sound and valid reason for stifling a free exchange of ideas?

Do you feel that there exists ideas and notions which should not be heard?

The harm that was caused was the very real emotional hurt to some members on reading some posts. In addition, there was a measurable loss of participation by some highly valuable members. In my view as owner/manager, this meant a very real chance that Signs 101 traffic would decline along with the quality of the discussions related to actual sign making. So yes, not some but many members stood to see the benefit of a useful and relevant discussion forum based around the profession of sign making harmed.

[shakey0818]

Yes, of course.

For all those who respond 'No':

Would you be deprived of some benefit currently being enjoyed?

Would your spine curve or hair grow in the palms of your hands if there were to exist a place where people were free to express an actual unabashed opinion?

Would you be harmed by this in any way?

Would you be forced to participate in some way or another?

Has any human being ever been harmed by words and/or ideas no matter how much you might disagree with them? That's actually harmed, experiencing something you might find distasteful or unpleasant that might offend your delicate sensibilities does not count a harm in the real world.

Or, as is more likely, you possess a not uncommon streak of puritanical zeal, especially when it comes to others possibly enjoying themselves?

Be honest, try to discard all of the inane rationalizations against having the NHB back; is it Yet Another manifestation of the unfortunate human tendency to want to control others?

Do you have anything resembling a sound and valid reason for stifling a free exchange of ideas?

Do you feel that there exists ideas and notions which should not be heard?

Might just be the quote of the decade.Good job Bob.
:goodpost:

[shakey0818]

The harm that was caused was the very real emotional hurt to some members on reading some posts. In addition, there was a measurable loss of participation by some highly valuable members. In my view as owner/manager, this meant a very real chance that Signs 101 traffic would decline along with the quality of the discussions related to actual sign making. So yes, not some but many members stood to see the benefit of a useful and relevant discussion forum based around the profession of sign making harmed.

Well seeing it from your point of view Fred i have to agree totally.I am sorry i brought it up.This is a great place community and we don't want to scare off those that may become good contributing Members or even Merchant Members.

[shakey0818]

Feel free to close this thread.

[Fred Weiss]

Well seeing it from your point of view Fred i have to agree totally.I am sorry i brought it up.This is a great place community and we don't want to scare off those that may become good contributing Members or even Merchant Members.

Just to be clear ... members who contribute their knowledge and helpfulness is what I was referring to. That, to me, is the measure of any member's value to the Signs 101 community. It is the value of the content contributed by all members that results in level of activity and the success of Signs 101 as both a venue and in generating the traffic we enjoy. Merchant subscriptions, premium subscriptions and banner advertising simply follow that.

[shakey0818]

Just to be clear ... members who contribute their knowledge and helpfulness is what I was referring to. That, to me, is the measure of any member's value to the Signs 101 community. It is the value of the content contributed by all members that results in level of activity and the success of Signs 101 as both a venue and in generating the traffic we enjoy. Merchant subscriptions, premium subscriptions and banner advertising simply follow that.

I don't fit into any of those categories but i do see your point.Thats why this is such a great place you really surprise me with your experience with this and knowledge of what is for the Best interest of this forum.TY

[Dave Drane]

Well, I must admit I did enjoy the politics. It gave me a great insight as how differently things are performed in America compared to Australia concerning all your primaries etc...
I am still totally confused! lol

[iSign]

Might just be the quote of the decade.Good job Bob.
:goodpost:
sorry to sound like I'm picking on you shakey, but before bashing bob's narrow misguided idiotic diatribe (without the annoyance of actually quoting it) I'll start by challenging your comment... it's another typical bob-ism which satisfies some peoples need for staunch opinionated posturing, within themselves, or for vicarious satisfaction through the spueging from others... but NO, it's not even the quote of the day because of it's fatal flaw... or flaws actually...

The primary flaw that makes the majority of bobs post a redundant failure is that he is not really answering your question... well, sure he said "yes of course" and could have vastly improved his representation on this non-poll by s#!t canning the rest of his spiel...

The problem, or flaw with the rest is that it not only responds as if the NHB existed today and required his defense against it's being terminated... but drawing in "those who respond no" to his uncharacteristically skewed perspective, he proceeds to judge and berate others who actually may happen to simply be reading and responding to the actual question, instead of following bob's time traveling delusion into a knee jerk, past tense reaction.

To question someone having a "sound and valid reason for stifling" something, implies it is currently thriving, unrestrained... which is no longer the case...

...while there may be puritans, control freaks or the odd specimen suffering from bob's "delicate sensibilities" ...and these various miscreants may yet be running rampant upon the earth..

...to associate the opponents to this poll with such extreme ideology is a flawed concept because the topic at hand is no longer about "stifling a free exchange of ideas", any more then it's about "if there were to exist a place where people were free..."

THERE ARE PLENTY OF THOSE "PLACES"!!! ..the fact remains that this isn't one of them...

[Pat Whatley]

THERE ARE PLENTY OF THOSE "PLACES"!!! ..the fact remains that this isn't one of them...

Well said Doug.

I did notice while I was in the NHB that it looked like 95% of the "discussions" were the same 20 people screaming the same 20 arguments over and over complete with 10,000 links to articles that nobody ever ready, 5000 videos that nobody ever watched and 5000 quotes that nobody ever verified.

Seriously, in it's entire existence did anybody's political or religious beliefs get changed?

The NHB, in my opinion, had little to offer in making this a better place.

[ddarlak]

The harm that was caused was the very real emotional hurt to some members on reading some posts.

can't have that now can we...

a little too politically correct, over protecting....

i can buy the argument that it was too much work, but that it hurt people's feelings..... really? if you get your feeling hurt participating in a forum that YOU personally had to subscribe to to even see it, you have major issues....

punish everyone for the sake of the weak!

[rjpjr]

Seriously, in it's entire existence did anybody's political or religious beliefs get changed?

well...yes. I recall one member throwing away their faith and crediting it to another's NHB arguments.

[Arlo Kalon]

Yes, of course.

For all those who respond 'No':

Would you be deprived of some benefit currently being enjoyed?

Would your spine curve or hair grow in the palms of your hands if there were to exist a place where people were free to express an actual unabashed opinion?

Would you be harmed by this in any way?

Would you be forced to participate in some way or another?

Has any human being ever been harmed by words and/or ideas no matter how much you might disagree with them? That's actually harmed, experiencing something you might find distasteful or unpleasant that might offend your delicate sensibilities does not count a harm in the real world.

Or, as is more likely, you possess a not uncommon streak of puritanical zeal, especially when it comes to others possibly enjoying themselves?

Be honest, try to discard all of the inane rationalizations against having the NHB back; is it Yet Another manifestation of the unfortunate human tendency to want to control others?

Do you have anything resembling a sound and valid reason for stifling a free exchange of ideas?

Do you feel that there exists ideas and notions which should not be heard?

What he said. I seriously miss the adult reverie it provided. I thought it made this place unique as a site that encompassed outlets for anything we might want to broach. Sad that it's gone despite my initial agreement with the decision.

[GB2]

Feel free to close this thread.

:goodpost:

No to your question...this is a completely inappropriate place for such a thing. It absolutely degraded this entire forum and I'm sure Fred can attest that it was having or was about to have a financial impact on sponsorship too.

[ThinkRight]

There is a time and place for everything,and this forum is not a Democracy.Your vote only counts in polls.
Create a blog. It's free. Get started.
http://wordpress.com/
https://accounts.google.com/ServiceLogin?service=blogger&passive=1209600&continue=http://www.blogger.com/home&followup=http://www.blogger.com/home&ltmpl=start#s01
http://www.thoughts.com/
http://www.typepad.com/
Many more.Start your own and invite everyone.Have at it.
/careful what you wish for....you may just get it.

[bob]

The harm that was caused was the very real emotional hurt to some members on reading some posts. In addition, there was a measurable loss of participation by some highly valuable members. In my view as owner/manager, this meant a very real chance that Signs 101 traffic would decline along with the quality of the discussions related to actual sign making. So yes, not some but many members stood to see the benefit of a useful and relevant discussion forum based around the profession of sign making harmed.

I can well understand that this is a business and you want to construct it such to provide maximum return for you. Nothing wrong with that. That being the case then why the what appear to be gratuitous rationalizations for discontinuing the NHB sandbox?

'Emotional hurt'? Even if there were such a thing, anyone who chooses to participate in something is responsible for that choice.

Your last sentence seems a bit confusing. Were the NHB fora in lieu of any or all of the others? Did any of the often abundant venom in the NHB section somehow leak over into the traditional sections? Was anyone required to participate In the NHB area in order to avail themselves of the other discussions?

It's your playpen, you get to make the rules be they by arbitrary fiat or via well considered deliberation. But, for a while, you had something that was rather enjoyable and entertaining that really didn't cost anyone anything. I'm amused by number those who condemn the NHB while, at the same time, declare that they would never participate in such goings on. That smacks of missing a real good opportunity to mind one's own business.

[OldPaint]

want NHB political/religion?
sign in and your ready to do battle with some of the most opinioned people in the WORLD)))))
http://english.pravda.ru/ go to opinions..........

[ThinkRight]

If you are man / woman enough you can go here
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/

[Fred Weiss]

'Emotional hurt'? Even if there were such a thing, anyone who chooses to participate in something is responsible for that choice.

Yes they are, but in a busy world participants have been known to forget the original conditions made clear when they joined. This was the case with the incident that was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

Your last sentence seems a bit confusing. Were the NHB fora in lieu of any or all of the others? Did any of the often abundant venom in the NHB section somehow leak over into the traditional sections? Was anyone required to participate In the NHB area in order to avail themselves of the other discussions?

Yes it had Bob. I thought that had been made clear.

It's your playpen, you get to make the rules be they by arbitrary fiat or via well considered deliberation. But, for a while, you had something that was rather enjoyable and entertaining that really didn't cost anyone anything. I'm amused by number those who condemn the NHB while, at the same time, declare that they would never participate in such goings on. That smacks of missing a real good opportunity to mind one's own business.

It was a well considered decision. I agree that the NHB had some benefits. I too miss the relevant discussions that took place. I don't, however, miss some other things and have no regrets about ending a very mixed bag that had evolved into something that was no longer a plus for Signs 101.

[Coloradosigns]

Do you think the NHb section should be started again but without politica/religin?


Yeah it's called the general chit chat section.

[Techman]

you had something that was rather enjoyable and entertaining that really didn't cost anyone anything.

On the surface it seemed to have no affect on any one. Between the lines the spillover affected attitudes of some towards others. Some of which was the negative influence on positive informational posts.

[Flame]

It was entertaining...but honestly I get along better with some people simply NOT knowing their views on politics and religion.

[qmr55]

Why not try it somewhere else? Then it won't effect the forum here! Check this out....we can keep it off the sign forum, which for multiple reasons, we know will be better. Go here. (http://macrohou.se/macrohouse/nhb_forums/index.php)


Fred: If you don't want this posted, remove this post!

[GB2]

Instead of telling everyone where else they can go other than Signs101, why don't you all drop it and just enjoy the benefits of all the good things available here at Signs101.

[Fred Weiss]

Why not try it somewhere else? Then it won't effect the forum here! Check this out....we can keep it off the sign forum, which for multiple reasons, we know will be better. Go here. (http://macrohou.se/macrohouse/nhb_forums/index.php)


Fred: If you don't want this posted, remove this post!

I wish you success and have no objection.

[qmr55]

Instead of telling everyone where else they can go other than Signs101, why don't you all drop it and just enjoy the benefits of all the good things available here at Signs101.

Oh no no no, I think you misunderstood what I am doing!

This is only for people to discuss one subject! Has nothing to do with getting people to go other then Signs101, I love it here and would not go to any other sign forum! I just believe those kind of discussions do not belong on a sign site at all, so people can stop arguing the topic here and just do it over there!

It won't be something that's moderated 24/7 it is just for the small amount of people who love those kind of topics, to have their fun.

[Mike Paul]

A thread in polls should have a poll.

I found it entertaining and don't hold any negative feelings toward anyone who disagreed with my point of view. I wouldn't mind seeing it again. If one doesn't want to partake, don't join...

[GAC05]

I enjoyed it, didn't get into the name calling and swearing but was very interested in what others in the sign trade thought about issues not sign related.
First threads I always checked unless I was waiting for an answer to a question posted.

Place is a little dull now.
wayne k
guam usa

[bob]

...'Emotional hurt'? Even if there were such a thing, anyone who chooses to participate in something is responsible for that choice...

Yes they are, but in a busy world participants have been known to forget the original conditions made clear when they joined. This was the case with the incident that was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back....

Seems a shame to lose something that brought harm to no one merely to assuage the delicate sensibilities of those who appear to possess only a dim comprehension of their own existence.

Every human being is responsible for its own condition. Catering to anyone who refuses to accept this responsibility is not doing anyone any favors. Neither the person receiving the special dispensation nor those having to forgo whatever it might be that the special person, or squad of persons, or whatever, finds distasteful. The latter lose because the former has a temper tantrum. A less than optimum state of affairs.

[Dave Drane]

can't have that now can we...

a little too politically correct, over protecting....

i can buy the argument that it was too much work, but that it hurt people's feelings..... really? if you get your feeling hurt participating in a forum that YOU personally had to subscribe to to even see it, you have major issues....

punish everyone for the sake of the weak!

:goodpost:

[Marlene]

no. I joined in the NHB section and think it was a good idea/bad idea all wrapped up in one. I like looking a views that are totally the opposite of mine as it is a way to grow but the NHB section wasn't like that for the most part. it got mean and nasty so there was little to learn and it felt more like a place to go to defend a point of view rather and talk about views. I don't miss it and commend Fred for keeping this site what it was intended to be and not letting it become something else.

[randya]

Seems a shame to lose something that brought harm to no one merely to assuage the delicate sensibilities of those who appear to possess only a dim comprehension of their own existence.

Every human being is responsible for its own condition. Catering to anyone who refuses to accept this responsibility is not doing anyone any favors. Neither the person receiving the special dispensation nor those having to forgo whatever it might be that the special person, or squad of persons, or whatever, finds distasteful. The latter lose because the former has a temper tantrum. A less than optimum state of affairs.

While I agree with this, bob.
This is exactly how the religious and political status quo maintain their power.

So exposing that ignorance, the 'harm' that is done is to those systems, and those power structures.

Ignorance is bliss definition



Not knowing something is often more comfortable than knowing it.
Note : This proverb (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/proverb) resembles “What you don't know cannot hurt you.” It figures in a passage from “On a Distant Prospect of Eton College,” by the eighteenth-century English poet Thomas Gray: “Where ignorance is bliss, / ‘Tis folly to be wise.’” The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=ignorance+is+bliss&ia=ahcl)


So remember bob,

“What you don't know cannot hurt you.”

[Billct2]

no

[Gino]

It's a shame, but I think it is an unnecessary evil that we really don't need here at s101, since for the most part, many here can't take responsibility for their own shortcomings.
Some could and did survive while others got lost and eaten up by the content.

I thought there was quite a bit of entertainment, but more than that..... I can't tell you how my eyes were opened up to certain things, which I'm not really sure I could've gotten elsewhere. I did hear and find out about many levels of many subjects, right here in the back room of s101. Many beliefs were explained to me by others which were honest enough to answer up, regardless of the outcome, because they knew they were among friends, while others just felt like that got beaten up for nothing. Name calling and insults are abundant everywhere these days, so why should s101 be any different ??

For those who could keep their composure, I applaud you and for those who couldn't take it.... well, it was a learning experience. Just about everyone in this thread had contributed in some form of nastiness over the short time it was here, but to hold it against people........ well, that's gonna continue in any venue. There are those whom help and contribute and those which take....... on a regular basis. What's in your wallet ??