Heads-up re Fedex Kinko's

[Jon Aston]

Fedex Kinko's is planning to extend its reach and penetration with a new "small store" initiative. Might be worth keeping an eye out for in your neighbourhood..and is perhaps worthy of developing a little pre-emptive strategy.

News Release (http://members.whattheythink.com/news/newslink.cfm?id=23888)

The thought crossed my mind that it might be fun to treat this topic as a sort of "town hall" discussion...discuss implications, possible strategies, etc as a group.

Anyone with any thoughts to share?

[Derf]

We have like 3 FedEx Kinko's with in a 5 mile area.... they have little to no impact to my business.

[Checkers]

Hiya Jon,
Bring them on :)
I'm familiar with Kinko's and their hub and spoke concept. It's quite simple and very effective.
It will have a major impact on shops that don't posess or offer quality design and customer services. It's going to hurt the franchise shops too.
And to the shops that say "I can't charge that price here", watch what happens, this company will get those "high prices" that some of us speak of and then some :)

Checkers

[Fred Weiss]

While I don't expect it to have much effect on my business I would expect that the real impact will be felt from the franchise shops competitive reactions if they feel the loss and modify their marketing. That then could be felt on a more widespread basis.

[ENTDesign]

I am guessing that they are trying to go head to head with UPS stores.

I'm still not impressed by the addition of FedEx to Kinko's. 2 of the 3 metro stores in my region ceased to be 24 hour operations after the merger. On the rare occasions I have had to go into one (customer had FedEx account), I see that not much is going on behind the counter (all that pricey equipment sitting idle!!!). And the worker bees never seem real fired up, and sometimes even confused by their systems.

All in all, F-K is still expensive, one is relying on personnel that is not always capable, and they will delay your project to fit their staff scheduling even if the equipment is open.

[SDRI]

I was a Manager for Kinkos for over 7 years I got out just before the started in the sign industry. I set up many branches from Hyannis to Glastonbery. As a former Kinkoid I can tell you that the employees are far too busy to pay attention to detail like we can they produce the cookie cutter signs that don't make any real money anyway. Quanity is key for the employee - yes they have the equipment but they do not have the creativeness to make works of art - Besides Are they going to letter a cube truck in the strip mall parking lot? Also five years ago they moved away from graphic design and typesetting (Sent to India via fax and email) I do not know if they brought it back?

[signguy]

can I get a large McSign and can you supersize it?

i dont think fed kink has any impact here...although were too dern busy to notice anyway

[williamson design]

But kinkos offers so much...15 standard fonts and 7 colors

sorry, I had to. I'm not fond of the cookie cutter banners and signs they do at their outragous prices.

[FrankenSigns.biz]

Heads up. Many printing companies are on the ropes. Desktop laser and inkjet printing systems have taken a HUGE bite out of their business. SOHO entrepreneurs are printing their own letterheads, envelopes and business cards, but they're not printing their own signs—yet. Many printers have started offering signs. Yes, we need to watch out for Kinko's but watch out for that printer up the street as well, in fact, compete with them if you can, and beat them to the punch.

[MAB SIGNS]

F-K has no effect in our area to my knowledge and if they handle signs like printing services they aren't doing well. A friend tried getting a 2-part form quoted and they no longer offer volume pricing and this was a 2,000 piece order. so they're pricing themselves out of being competative. In my mind they're very much an impulse by from someone getting business cards or forms printed.

[Checkers]

I dunno guys, when you refer to what they charge.
You would think a multi-million dollar corporation with a staff of hundreds, if not thousands, has a pretty good grasp of pricing and profitability.
Since they're a publicly traded company and you can see what their bottom line is. Here's a link to their annual report...
http://images.fedex.com/us/investorrelations/downloads/annualreport/2006annualreport.pdf
Judging by what I'm reading, they're doing fairly well. So, here's another way to look at it...
Perhaps they're not charging too much. Maybe they're charging what they need to maintain the health and profitability of the company. Or, maybe some of us really don't know where our bottom line needs to be, and we're not charging enough for the products and services we offer.
Think about it for a while. If they can get away with charging an arm and a leg for their products and services, but they don't know what they're doing, imagine what you should be able to charge for your time and efforts :)
Remember, If you're in this business to make signs and designs, you must be a wealthy person or thinking is wrong. The reason why I make signs is to, first, make money; and second to enjoy what I do while I make money.

Checkers

[Billct2]

"The new centers will focus on convenience and customer service, employing four team members highly specialized in all FedEx Kinko's services. Each team member will work with customers from start to finish on their projects, delivering a positive customer experience."
What I want to know is where they are going to find these people?
They don't seem to have many like that in their existing store.

[3CGraphics]

Please be careful wen you dismiss ANY competitor. I was with Sears for 14+ years. When KMart first came around upper management literally forebade ANYONE to mention KMart - because "Kmart's customers are not our customers" - the mentality was that KMart was SO far beneath Sears they didn't deserve a mention. Had Sears been proacative it is possible that Sears could have driven KMart out, not to mention this action might have affected Sam Walton. As it is KMart bought Sears and Walmart....

I'm not saying the franchises are good or better or even know what they are doing. What I am saying is that if a customer goes in to drop off a package and ends up with a sign/banner - whatever (poorly designed or not) - they likely aren't in the market anymore and therefore we will not have the opportunity to sell them anything.

To think they don't have any effect IMO is dangerous.

[THATgirl]

I agree with Steve. Not only that but every company will have their own sign making equipment. A digital printer will be just like any other printer. All companies will be able to make their own banners and signs. It is already happening! It's all in the question of 'how low will you go' to keep attracting customers. The rich or lazy ones who don't have time or the desire to do their own will most likely just hire someone who will within the company. I have seen lots of printers go out of business. Kinkos will have to start worrying too.

[Signmsn2u]

Any new business opening in your area that provides the same products and services, will give your propects and existing customers another choice to purchase what they need.

This always has an effect on your business because Kinkos' customers must come from somewhere. Many of the businesses near a new kinkos will loose a small percentage to them to create their startup customer base.

Take care of your customers.

James D

[carlos venson]

Kinko's in my area has two design personnel that graduated from the Art Center.
Both worked in the trade before joining Kinko's. They produce killer designs on
banners and such. They walk the customer through the design process and even help with logos. They have put a real dent in my friends printing business.
Also put the hurt on a screen printing shop were I was forman several years ago. Give your customers the very best all the time and you'll probably not be
effected. Most good customers are very loyal to those who have gone the extra mile.

[Jacki]

I had a customer mention Kinko's for a job. They wanted to know the difference from what I could do for them & what Kinko's could do. I told them what I could do for them & explained my product clearly. As for Kinko's they will have to explain their product for I do not know what they quoted. Customer must have checked w/ Kinko's & he came back to my shop & ordered with me. (I tried to call kinkos & "act" as a customer to see what they offered sign wise, the kinko's location near us really didn't have knowledge on the products they sell. Good for us... for now.)

Just make sure your front counter knows the products they sell.

[Just Another Sign Guy]

this has been a long time in the works as when i sold equipment and supplies (1996 was the last year that i sold equipment) there was talk of giving (yes giving) Kinkos equipment if they would commit to buying all of their consumables for said equipment from us, that is a tough deal to compete against for the average sign shop who has to factor in the price of equipment into their expenses...let alone how hard it is for the smaller shop to justify the expense of buying new equipment and making the lease payments. sadly i think that a large portion of the signage in our industry that is not currently being digitally printed eventually will end up being produced as such.

with the amazingly rapid progression we have seen regarding digital printers and inks it is only a matter of time until the vinyl graphics and text is a rarely used technique imo (as it is now i would estimate that we cut 50% and print 50%) but as products improve this is quickly going to change allowing the majority of what we still cut to be printed. if there is one huge lesson to be learned from the equipment evolution of the past 20yrs in this industry, i would say it is to not let new technology pass you by sooner than later i believe cut vinyl will be a rarity.

i for one do not want to compete with kinko's (and most likely will not) but with the exception of clients that we have earned through design and service, i am afraid that the majority of new customers that seek us out for one reason or another are going to force us to develop a strategy for dealing with this.

[iceracer]

I know this is an old thread, but being a new member I just discovered it.
This is more a commentary on pricing.

A couple of years ago, I was chatting with a colleague of mine whom at the time was the Sales Manager of the Display company we both worked for.

We were chatting about our graphics dept. costs and such. He made the suggestion and I quote: "You should just sub out all your graphic needs to sign shops. Probably 90% of those guys have no idea the value of what they offer, they leave a lot of money on the table and we'd make more money by having them do the work instead of doing it our self."

Terry

[SignManiac]

Probably 90% of those guys have no idea the value of what they offer, they leave a lot of money on the table and we'd make more money by having them do the work instead of doing it our self."

Terry


And he would be very correct!

[Checkers]

Good one Terry!
I was the production manager at a display company before I started my business.
To this day, I still hear a lot of people who say "we can't get those prices here".
Meanwhile, in this tight economy, I still see billboards leasing for thousands of dollars a month going up all over; plenty of ads on TV which cost millions to produce; and plenty of advertising in the newspapers and magazines, which cost hundreds to thousands of dollars a day, and only last a day to a month at most.
I could rant for hours about signs as advertising and need to be treated as such. But, I've already typed enough on that subject :)

Checkers

[jzorn]

Fed ex kinkos opened a store here about 18 months ago. They closed up last week.

[Pat Whatley]

[sarcastic] at their outragous prices.

Funny you put it that way. The last time I was in Kinko's and looked at their prices my first reaction was "What in the hell's wrong with my pricing?" In the last 18 months we've gone up almost 50% across the board and I'm busier than ever.

[redsigns]

Kinkos finally realized a few years ago that the 5000 sq ft footprint wasn't working great when Staples and OD were doing the same gross profit per/store in half the size. While they have great brand cache, they don't have the most efficient operating model. Its not necessarily going to mean they will be able to double the store count, more so than it will mean they focus on a smaller stores in the future land deals.

[wannabe]

My son and I were painting a window splash on a Ci Ci's pizza when we were approached by the manager of the neighboring F-K. She wanted to know if we did sign installations and had read on our van that we print t-shirts. She seemed really interested in using us for both. I gave her my card and told her we were a full service sign shop etc. and we'd be happy to work with her. We'll see if she calls.

[btropical.com]

Heads up. Many printing companies are on the ropes. Desktop laser and inkjet printing systems have taken a HUGE bite out of their business. SOHO entrepreneurs are printing their own letterheads, envelopes and business cards, but they're not printing their own signs—yet. Many printers have started offering signs. Yes, we need to watch out for Kinko's but watch out for that printer up the street as well, in fact, compete with them if you can, and beat them to the punch.
:munchie:

[mark galoob]

google this article.

very interesting

mark galoob

[Mainframe]

Mark I don't see a link

[mark galoob]

sorry, try this...there are several parts.
http://inkinconline.com/underground/underground.iml

being in the shipping business, of course fed ex kinkos is a BIG topic among our forums.

i found this a couple of yrs ago and have used some of the ideas in my store successfully.

mark galoob

[CherokeeDesign]

These are all just observations from my immediate area. I live in a city of about 45,000 in the midwest and there's a Kinkos not too far from me. So this will all probably vary depending on how good an individual Kinkos shop is etc. The one here isn't real impressive.

1. I don't think the majority of people know about all the services they offer, they certainly don't advertise it here. I think most people when they think "Kinkos" think "copies".
2. I think they attract more of the "casual" customer, people that want to go get little league flyers done on their lunch break. That's a strength for Kinkos, quick turnaround time on jobs like that. People like convenience, they don't want to be told "I can have those done by..." etc. My observation is that the customers who are more in tune to what graphic services are available are not going to Kinkos, but more professional sign shops.

I agree with not dismissing them or taking them lightly. I would say to visit your local Kinkos and see firsthand what they offer, and what you're competing with. What are their strong and weak areas. Offer services that they don't, and market your business effectively. And I cannot stress enough TREAT ALL OF YOUR CUSTOMERS WITH SUPERIOR CUSTOMER SERVICE. It doesn't matter if it's a $25 job or a $2000 job. You treat those people right, be friendly, patient, respectful. I don't care if you have 100 things going on and someone's asking a simple question. Treat that person good, or somebody like me will. I'm not the best designer in the world, but I know how to treat people. Almost every time I ever had to contact another graphic dept with a question, I have been treated rudely, like I was stupid, or rushed off the phone. Simple questions like file specifications that weren't listed on their website, etc. I called one place 2 weeks ago because they had no specs at all on their site and I needed to upload files. I asked what their preference was for software, and boy it was a huge inconvenience. A few years ago, I did a 50+ page product catalog for a company, and had to contact a local printer with a question. We had been in contact, had all the specs and were about to submit the final version of the catalog. I don't remember exactly what I had to call and ask but it was simple. But the lady was so rude, I took that job to another printer. They had quoted us $15,000 and that lady cost her company that money and any future business. This company puts out a catalog every year, so she basically cost them $15,000/year. I don't tolerate rudeness and I treat everyone that deals me with respect. I don't care if it's a small question, a "dumb" question (no such thing as I see it), I've had a bad day, I'm busy, etc, it's called being a professional. And I get an awful lot of compliments about that. This business is intimidating to people that aren't familiar with it, or don't have an artistic background. Making them comfortable with the process and enjoy it, goes a long way. You'll get their future business and their referrals. Strengthen your weaknesses and advertise your strengths. Market effectively. It's ironic that locally, sign shops stress the importance of good signs, strong marketing, etc, but don't do that in their own business. The last place I worked, hardly anyone knows it's there. Advertise your own business like you would for a customer, you have 100% creative control and all the materials at your fingertips. There's no reason why not to.

Off my soapbox...

[TheSignLady]

Here too.
quote from ENTdesign " I see that not much is going on behind the counter (all that pricey equipment sitting idle!!!). "
We have 3 here - 2 of those are withing 3miles of each other. Their Lg.Format print/sign/banner dept doesn't seem to draw any to their counter.

I read this as: FedEx/Kinkos is to the business community as WalMart is to the residential consumer...

[Dot Matrixa]

Just as others have observed, the first thing I noticed is Kinko's is just a job for those poor employees. Their prices are at the highest end of the gamut and the quality leaves something to be missed.

[SignosaurusRex]

Just as others have observed, the first thing I noticed is Kinko's is just a job for those poor employees. Their prices are at the highest end of the gamut and the quality leaves something to be missed.
Are you kidding? Those guys are cheaper than alot of the bottom feeders around here. They pay bottom dollar to the employees, use the cheapest materials, their output is sub-standard to minimal at best and nobody on the staff gives a crap about customer service. At best they are top notch at turning employees into ex employees that think they are designers and sign makers.......more bottom feeders. Please tell me you are not a former FedEx/Kinko employee.:rolleyes:

[cdiesel]

From what I've seen here, their pricing is very odd. On some things they are very high ($10/sf banners), while on some they're very low. They don't charge for design time here, which I think would be ripping the customers off if they did.

[John L]

I really don't sell banners. But I have always wondered how does the average business person just stop in Kinkos and have them whip up a 3x12, and then later install it on their building?

Forgetting all about design and any usefullness as an advertising tool... most of these customers don't know anything about permitting and what's required by zoning ordinance in most areas nowadays.

Can't you just rat them out?

[imagep]

I really don't sell banners. But I have always wondered how does the average business person just stop in Kinkos and have them whip up a 3x12, and then later install it on their building?

Forgetting all about design and any usefullness as an advertising tool... most of these customers don't know anything about permitting and what's required by zoning ordinance in most areas nowadays.

Can't you just rat them out?

I doubt that Kinkos has any legal obligation towards customers who install their own banners. Around here no one really cares if someone has a permit or not. Been in business 20 years and we have only ever had one sign permit issue.

Is it kinkos selling banners that upsets you or is it people installing their own banners? I figure people got a right to to whatever they want on their own property. I actually encourage people to install their own signs.

Know if you want to hang out at kinkos, stalk their customers and report them, then go for it. I just dont see how that can be beneficial to anyone.

[Pat Whatley]

The question here should really be Why can Kinko's get $10 psf for crappy looking banners and your local sign shop is lucky to get $8 (or much less) for quality work?

Rex, around here their prices are at the high end. The store manager said they don't really do signs, they're just an add-on item for other things they're already doing. When they start putting in the regional production hubs (like Fast Signs) they're going to start pushing the sign service.

[OldPaint]

this goes back to SIGNS NOW doin the tonite show banner........if you want that kinda sign)))))))))))
you will go to ANY PLACE ON THE CORNER.............

[Brandon708]

Kinkos makes crap and they charge their customers top dollar. They also have petty charges that most sign companies don't charge. They don't take the time to have a relationship with the customers.