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  1. #1
    College Sophomore signspot's Avatar
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    Brick Wall Mural

    I have a customer wanting to do a mural on a brick wall (image attached). I have never done an install on brick before and have never used any type of brick wall vinyl material. I know Arlon, Mactac and 3M (probably others) make vinyls specifically for this application. How well do these materials work? What type of longevity should I be expecting (6 months to 3 years?). Also, as shown in the picture there are several runs of conduit going vertically up the building, are these going to cause problems or should I be able to work the vinyl over top of these with no problems? Any input would be appreciated.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Brick Wall Mural-brick-wall-jpg  

  2. #2
    PhD insignia's Avatar
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    We've had the best luck by far with 3M's textured surface vinyl. It's only rated for 6 months outdoors, everything we've done has lasted longer than that though. MacTac I believe is rated for 18 months and we were seeing failures within 3-6 months so I wasn't too impressed with it.

    When bidding this remember to price the installation accordingly, this stuff is SLOOOOOOW to install, very very time consuming on brick.

  3. #3
    PhD Jillbeans's Avatar
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    That wouldn't be a bad wall to paint.
    See if you could sub out the job to a walldog, and tag along.
    Love....Jill

  4. #4
    Premium Subscriber Moze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by signspot View Post
    I have a customer wanting to do a mural on a brick wall (image attached). I have never done an install on brick before and have never used any type of brick wall vinyl material. I know Arlon, Mactac and 3M (probably others) make vinyls specifically for this application. How well do these materials work? What type of longevity should I be expecting (6 months to 3 years?). Also, as shown in the picture there are several runs of conduit going vertically up the building, are these going to cause problems or should I be able to work the vinyl over top of these with no problems? Any input would be appreciated.
    I don't think you want to lay vinyl over top of the conduit...


  5. #5
    PhD CES020's Avatar
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    We have a piece we got from Mike (Insignia) I guess 2 years ago, or more. It was a test and it's stuck to our loading dock on the flat surface. It gets full sun exposure for most of the day. It gets rained on, material dragged across, snowed on, and about everything else. I can't believe it's still stuck. Aside from wear, it looks great.

    However, we installed it, AGAINST our recommendation for a customer on curbs (no parking, etc.). We repeatedly told them it wouldn't work and they said we could do the job or they'd get someone else to, so we did it. After about 3 months, we started seeing failures. I suspect the curbs get saturated with water every time it rains and that was the cause, because our sample is still there, doing fine.

    I can tell you, installing those on the curbs was one of the most physically challenging thing I think I've ever installed. It takes a LOT of work and a LOT of pressure.

    Keep in mind, you need to use the special rollers and they go for about $120 a pop. I think it's an outstanding product and it looks amazing, just know it's not the easiest install you'll ever do. It's not difficult, it just takes a lot of pressure and it's hard on the wrists.

  6. #6
    PhD signage's Avatar
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    No on over top of conduits!

  7. #7
    College Sophomore
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    I'm with Jill! Hire a walldog, do paint and LEARN!

  8. #8
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    +1 for Arlon DPF 8000. Can't really say how longevity is, because of limited use. However, have had good success with it so far.

  9. #9
    Premium Subscriber Billct2's Avatar
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    Walldog it, the pipes won't matter. And it'll last ten times longer.

  10. #10
    PhD signage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billct2 View Post
    Walldog it, the pipes won't matter. And it'll last ten times longer.
    +4

  11. #11
    PhD Jillbeans's Avatar
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    Smile

    And the older wall signs get, the better they look.
    You can't say that about vinyl.
    :)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Brick Wall Mural-hicotexasdowntownmural-jpg  

  12. #12
    PhD Coloradosigns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by insignia View Post
    We've had the best luck by far with 3M's textured surface vinyl. It's only rated for 6 months outdoors, everything we've done has lasted longer than that though. MacTac I believe is rated for 18 months and we were seeing failures within 3-6 months so I wasn't too impressed with it.

    When bidding this remember to price the installation accordingly, this stuff is SLOOOOOOW to install, very very time consuming on brick.
    truth, it's like a 3 step process. It takes forever. Lots of heat, lots of rolling.
    Oh yeah, use a roller for this install.

  13. #13
    College Freshman Cale Frederick's Avatar
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    We have the front of our building wrapped with 3M 8624. It has been up for a little over 3 years now facing west and getting a full sun beating every day. Since we now try to stay away from 3M though, I have played around with several vinyls on one of our other brick buildings and they all work relatively well. They have all been up for over 6 months now and none show any sign of letting go anytime soon. Some are even calendared vinyls and are holding up just as well, however I would never give a customer a callandered graphic to go on brick.

    I would not go over the conduit either. Maybe during install, but would cut them afterwards.

    Here is the front of our building.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Brick Wall Mural-automated-front-jpg  

  14. #14
    College Sophomore signspot's Avatar
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    Anyone used the new 3M 480cv3 for a brick wall application? My fellers rep came in today and said that this material would work best for this application. Does anyone have any input? Otherwise I will be using 3M IJ8624.

  15. #15
    PhD insignia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by signspot View Post
    Anyone used the new 3M 480cv3 for a brick wall application? My fellers rep came in today and said that this material would work best for this application. Does anyone have any input? Otherwise I will be using 3M IJ8624.
    I would use IJ8624 if only because it's been out much longer and is proven in the field.

  16. #16
    College Sophomore xxaxx's Avatar
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    This will give you an idea of what goes into it ... a lot of work. We have a school coming up doing a ton of interior brick walls like that, should be fun. :P

  17. #17
    College Senior round man's Avatar
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    nuther vote for Jill's suggestion,...got walls here that have been up for over 25 years,..they are faded and flaking slightly but still effecive advertising,... some are even kind of local landmarks

    edited to add,... have to restore a wall next week that has been up in a nearby town for at least 75 years,....it is still readable and only needs preping and repainting,... I bid the job so the local vinyl shop will make more profit than if they had done the work themselves and without much more effort than a couple phone calls for their part

    no materials+no labor= net profit greater than actual shop production net profit,... and they get to spend the time they would have been doing the wall making money on other work

  18. #18
    PhD Coloradosigns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by signspot View Post
    Anyone used the new 3M 480cv3 for a brick wall application? My fellers rep came in today and said that this material would work best for this application. Does anyone have any input? Otherwise I will be using 3M IJ8624.
    your fellers rep is wrong. This is why i don't use fellers much, that's awful advice.

    use 8624 with 8524 lam.

  19. #19
    PhD weaselboogie's Avatar
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    PAINT. And if you have no clue what you're doing, hire a sign painter on the condition that you help. You'll have a better looking and better weathering project and you'll have a better respect for your trade when you see how things were done in the past. Even though I'm mostly vinyl and 3d shop, I intentionally take on several paint jobs a year just to keep me centered.

    Vinyl on walls weather into to litter, paint on walls weather into art.

  20. #20
    PhD signage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weaselboogie View Post
    PAINT. And if you have no clue what you're doing, hire a sign painter on the condition that you help. You'll have a better looking and better weathering project and you'll have a better respect for your trade when you see how things were done in the past. Even though I'm mostly vinyl and 3d shop, I intentionally take on several paint jobs a year just to keep me centered.

    Vinyl on walls weather into to litter, paint on walls weather into art.

  21. #21
    Merchant Member
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    Both IJ8624/8524 and 480Cv3/8548G are great choices. 3M™ Envision™ Print Wrap Film 480Cv3 installs at 3 inches per second, which is 50% faster than IJ8624. One additional thing to consider is that IJ8624 is compatible with more printer and ink sets (480Cv3 is compatible with latex, UV, some eco-solvent and solvent).

    Watch .

    You’ll find compatible printer profiles for each media and 3M Warranty Matrices for warranted printer/ink combinations on our website: www.3Mgraphics.com


    Tim Boxeth,
    Business Manager
    Last edited by 3M Graphics; 03-06-2013 at 01:30 PM.

  22. #22
    Preppie
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    Wall Sign

    Quote Originally Posted by signspot View Post
    I have a customer wanting to do a mural on a brick wall (image attached). I have never done an install on brick before and have never used any type of brick wall vinyl material. I know Arlon, Mactac and 3M (probably others) make vinyls specifically for this application. How well do these materials work? What type of longevity should I be expecting (6 months to 3 years?). Also, as shown in the picture there are several runs of conduit going vertically up the building, are these going to cause problems or should I be able to work the vinyl over top of these with no problems? Any input would be appreciated.
    Find a Wall Dog! I am one, but I don't think your customer would want to pay for my travel from southern Missouri.

  23. #23
    Premium Subscriber Gino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3M Graphics View Post
    Both IJ8624/8524 and 480Cv3/8548G are great choices. 3M™ Envision™ Print Wrap Film 480Cv3 installs at 3 inches per second, which is 50% faster than IJ8624. One additional thing to consider is that IJ8624 is compatible with more printer and ink sets (480Cv3 is compatible with latex, UV, some eco-solvent and solvent).

    Watch .

    You’ll find compatible printer profiles for each media and 3M Warranty Matrices for warranted printer/ink combinations on our website: www.3Mgraphics.com


    Tim Boxeth,
    Business Manager


    If it really goes that well, that's better than chocolate cake.


    Everybody should believe in something.... I believe I'll have another drink


    Merchant Member to the Trade



  24. #24
    College Sophomore signspot's Avatar
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    Just found out that they are looking for this mural to last only 1 year. So paint isn't going to be an option.

    I was required to give them the 3M bulletin for 8624 and apparently it mentions that freeze zones could cause problems and also that there could also be a problem with mold from water seepage. I can't imagine either of these being a problem, am I wrong? I am also assuming these leave no residue (or damage of any kind) behind on the brick wall after removal?

  25. #25
    PhD Craig Sjoquist's Avatar
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    Sell it with vinyl .. but sell to take it off in a year also .. then you get knowledge also

    I would dislike seeing vinyl on a wall that should have been painted..

    Vinyl just does not have a good image when it starts to fail & just gets worse as time goes on, also harder to remove.

  26. #26
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    Sub out the job to a large format printer on bulletin material

  27. #27
    PhD Coloradosigns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3M Graphics View Post
    Both IJ8624/8524 and 480Cv3/8548G are great choices. 3M™ Envision™ Print Wrap Film 480Cv3 installs at 3 inches per second, which is 50% faster than IJ8624. One additional thing to consider is that IJ8624 is compatible with more printer and ink sets (480Cv3 is compatible with latex, UV, some eco-solvent and solvent).

    Watch .

    You’ll find compatible printer profiles for each media and 3M Warranty Matrices for warranted printer/ink combinations on our website: www.3Mgraphics.com


    Tim Boxeth,
    Business Manager

    interesting, i've heard from experienced installers that it doesn't work as well as the regular textured wall vinyl and lam.

  28. #28
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    Vinyl letters and prints are great but not in this situation. Hire an old wall dog and you will learn something. Sign making was an art form at one time.

  29. #29
    PhD Coloradosigns's Avatar
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    he just said he's not painting it. You can hire a wall dog and learn something, or wrap it and teach a wall dog something...

  30. #30
    PhD ProWraps's Avatar
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    vinyl is removable. paint isnt. at least not as easy. just another thought. i think painting it would be my prefered choice. hell with wrapping that in a textured surface app. WAY TOO MUCH WORK.

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