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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS
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    11

    Mutoh Valuejet 1604 black and cyan ink problems

    I have been troubleshooting with tech support on trying to get black ink to run through the tubes. We finally got black ink in the tubes by using a syringe and sucking it throught the damper, but now the black will not print. When this happened, our cyan ink no longer was filling the tubes. So i am at the point where i can no longer print black and cyan during my nozzel checks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Queen Creek, AZ
    Posts
    4,536
    can you pull ink with the syringe from the pump drain hoses under the capping station?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS
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    11
    when i use the syringe, i do get some kind of suction and then i see the ink in the tube fill for just a little bit. But i am not really pulling any ink.

    I quess i am pulling what ever ink is left in the tubes which is a few mililiters.

    Am I suppose to be able to pull ink from the drain hose under the capping station?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Queen Creek, AZ
    Posts
    4,536
    Am I suppose to be able to pull ink from the drain hose under the capping station?
    the head has to be parked ontop of the capping station, then you should be able to pull ink through the print head from the two pump drain hoses.... if you can't then you may have a bad capping station.

    With the head out of the way you can fill the cap with some cleaning solution, then pull from one of the lines... repeat for the other. You can also squirt cleaning solution UP into the cap and suction back & forth to clean the line.

    Ink often dries up in those lines and clogs them. Then the suction is bad on one side or the other (maybe even both!) and that keeps the head from going through cleaning cycles and eventually you lose nozzles.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS
    Posts
    11
    I am pulling ink from under the capping station fine. I am only able to pull what seems to be mostly magenta. And being that i am able to print the yellow during the nozzel check, i will say that i am able to pull the yellow as well from under the capping sation. I was unable to pull the black or cyan ink from the hoses under the capping station.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Queen Creek, AZ
    Posts
    4,536
    Was it pulling just AIR on the black/cyan side, or wouldn't pull at all... like it was blocked. I bet you have a clogged up line.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS
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    11
    both tubes were pulling magenta

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS
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    11
    how do you clear a clogged up line if this is a possibility?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,105
    What I would do is:-
    Move the head of the capping station.
    Remove the complete capping station by the 2 screws on the left hand side.
    Their is a double hose connector from the capping station to the pump this blocks easily as the diameter of hose is greatly reduced. Clean all pipes and connectors.
    I would then remove all the drain pipework and clean it all out.
    I have found loads of blockages in the fine pipework from the pump it can pull out like pencil lead if left for a long time.
    Put it all back together and place some cleaning fluid (from your cleaning/flushing cartridges) on the capping station. Let that soak through then run a cleaning cycle, checking that both pump lines are pulling ink. Once you have both lines pulling ink I would soak the head for about an hour topping up the cleaning fluid every 15 minutes.
    If it is anything to go by the cyan and black are the first too block as the ink must be denser than magenta and yellow.

    SC

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS
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    11
    This is definatly a good troubleshooting step. I had already replaced the maintenance Assy because the tech support thought that this was the issue, But that was last week.

    Shouldnt i be able to pull ink from the dampers. I pulled out the cyan dampers and can get ink to pull towards the damper but the damper will not fill up and when i take out the syringe the ink retreats back the way it came.

    I think the issue might have something to do with the SMC two way valve. When i did a head wash, the solution would not go past the smc valve located on the back of the printer for the black and cyan ink.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    freeport texas
    Posts
    2,906
    sometimes to clear out a line you'll need to do a backwards flush on the line. a piece of paper or something can be caught at the beginning of your supply and like a lobster trap pulling cleaning solution or ink doesn't work. get a refillable cart. fill it with some cleaning solution. take off the damper at the other end of the line. with a syringe push and pull solution agressively back and forth through each "clogged" line. you will hear the rush of air and solvent emptying into the cart'. after this replace the damper and pull some solvent down the line to the damper. make note if the damper's membrane stays concave after filling with solution (if you can pull solution without the damper, but not with the damper the connection at the damper/line is suspect) or does the membrane relax(?). a membrane that stays vacuumed shows that there is restriction in that line. ink lines have very light positive pressure.

    ...not saying that this will cure the issue. but you need to systematically isolate where the problem is.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Davenport, Ia
    Posts
    1,048
    We are having the almost identical problem on our Mutoh RJ900. I have a tech in here @ noon. I will let you know what he comes up with.

    Terry

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS
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    11
    Thanks guys, please let me know what your tech guy says Terry

  14. #14
    I may be wrong on this but does this printer have valves or solenoids in the ink lines that have to be open before you can pull ink through with a syringe?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chester, NY
    Posts
    45
    The Valuejet has valves right in back -near the cartridge and sub-tank. Those valves to get stuck over time and may need to be replaced. You also want to check to see if there is ink in the subtank too. There is a sensor with a stainless steel plate that moves back and forth to gauge how much ink is inside the subtank. If the out-of-ink sensor is not working, the printer never knows that the subtank is empty and never fills it up.

    We do carry the valves if needed. You can order the valves from Mutoh but they make you purchase all 4 at once.

    Kent
    Mac Media USA, Inc.
    Chester, NY 10918 USA
    Last edited by Fred Weiss; 04-15-2011 at 04:17 PM. Reason: website in signature

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    86
    We had a similar issue with our 1608 last year. one of the valves went bad and caused the ink line to collapse and wouldnt release.

    They had to replace the valve and the lines from the valve to the head.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Posts
    601
    Can you post a link to your sales page for the valves? I was also looking at your printheads for the Valuejet. What kind of feedback are you getting for those?

    jc
    Last edited by Bradster941; 04-15-2011 at 03:58 PM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Davenport, Ia
    Posts
    1,048
    Quote Originally Posted by ijzuniga View Post
    Thanks guys, please let me know what your tech guy says Terry
    OK...Mine was an easy one. Look at your print head and make sure that it is setting below both black edges. Mine was a little askew and it was affecting the black and cyan (print head was to high on that end). Once it was corrected ink flowed again, you will probably have to do an ink charge in service mode.
    Hopefully yours will be as simple.

    Terry

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Posts
    601
    Here's something interesting (to me) that just happened to me on the 1604. I have been having issues with the black coming through the head for some time now. After a while, now the cyan doesn't send the lighter droplets sharp enough to land on the media leaving overspray when used.

    So today, after reading this thread, I decided to run a print on 1440x720 variable (usually rund 720x720v). The test print I use are swatches of all colors including a rich black, green, red and blue. This time the test ran beautifully giving me a deep red I loved. I was so excited about seeing my true black again. Sure it's slower but it's BLACK!

    Then I decided to run a test with less ink limit (from 300 I dropped to 250) and I'm back to where I started. No black coming out of the head again.

    How can it be that suddenly all that ink came through and then not? Any ideas as to what can cause it to work that way?

    jc

    PS. Don't mean to be a thread pirate, just thought it was related to the topic. I can move it to a new thread if needed.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS
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    11
    Terry is there a lever or screw that will place the print head above both black edges?

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,105
    I don't know if this is relevant occasionally our vj1604 has a sticking valve from the ink cartridge to the ink bladder/tank on the black line.
    All I do is attach a syringe and pull a little ink through and it will run for 3-4 months before doing the same.
    I am just wondering wether you have a ink starvation problem.
    Our machine normally flashes sub tank low/empty.

    SC

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Davenport, Ia
    Posts
    1,048
    Quote Originally Posted by ijzuniga View Post
    Terry is there a lever or screw that will place the print head above both black edges?
    Not that I am aware of. He just loosened the two screws on the front of the carriage and pushed the print head further down in carriage then tightened the screws. Like I said when I read your post I actually thought it was my post, symptoms were identical.

    Terry

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS
    Posts
    11
    I got my new dampers in today and replaced them for the black and cyan. Now the cyan works perfectly but the black is still not pulling all the way throught the tubes. I can see the black ink in the lines but it wont go up the part of the tube that curves upward.
    I pushed on the steel sensor for the black subtank and looked at the lines. When i pushed the steel sensor in which squeezes the black subtank pouch, i was able to see the black ink line rise alot. I kept pushing and eventually got the ink to reach the tubes that split off into the dampers. Once I let go of the steel sensor, the black ink retreated back down the tube. Any sugestions?

  24. #24
    gotta be a crack in the tubing/manifolds/orings somewhere IMO

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Penna.
    Posts
    9,164
    Sounds like an air leak.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by signage View Post
    Sounds like an air leak.
    +1

    Have you checked all the o-rings and connections on the ink line? The manifold (part of the head the dampers fit on) may be cracked.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS
    Posts
    11
    the o-rings look fine for the black lines and i cant see any cracks in the manifolds

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    CORPUS CHRISTI TEXAS
    Posts
    11
    This is what the tech had sent me in an email

    "Also if the subtank solenoid is in the off position you will get no ink in the line"


    So how does someone put this in the on position? Also I have SMC Valves.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by ijzuniga View Post
    This is what the tech had sent me in an email

    "Also if the subtank solenoid is in the off position you will get no ink in the line"


    So how does someone put this in the on position? Also I have SMC Valves.
    The valve should open automatically when the ink sensor on the corresponding sub tank goes low. To check if the valves are working properly, enter Self Diagnosis Mode, then go Ex Control Menu, select Sensor Menu, then Valve Check. This test allows you to open and close each valve by selecting On or Off, you should hear the valve click when it does this. If you do not hear the click,, the valve is stuck or there is no voltage being applied to its solenoid.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Posts
    601
    Hey Henry,

    I'm looking to enter this the Self Diagnosis Mode to go through the steps you mentioned. How do I do that? Is it the three button startup?

    jc

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