View Poll Results: how much are you tipping UPS or fed/Ex driver for holidays

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106. You may not vote on this poll
  • zero, they get paid enough

    59 55.66%
  • 1 to 10 ... cookies or cash minimum gesture

    19 17.92%
  • 11 to 20

    10 9.43%
  • 21 to 50

    11 10.38%
  • over 50

    7 6.60%
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  1. #31
    PhD bob's Avatar
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    Tip a UPS driver? Are you unhinged?

    They already make a princely wage to do their job. What would possess anyone to offer to subsidizes UPS's help or worse, bribe them into better service.

    Tipping in general... A silly custom. The entire notion of subsidizing and/or bribing someone else's employees is inane. The standard cry in defense of this custom invariably refers to minimum wage workers. How is it my problem that someone with whom I find myself interacting cannot get a better job? They work where they do because that's what they have chosen for themselves.

  2. #32
    Bachelor of Arts tsgstl's Avatar
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    I have no problem tipping someone in the service industry. It is similar to a crowd source system. Controling an average of 25%-60% of their income is fine by me. If not we could have the same kid ringing up my burger suggesting what steak I get. I have never had a ups driver deliver enough to warrant a tip but I have done favors (personal signs/banners) for any of my supply companies that I do a lot of work with. This spring I had a supply company merge several facilities. I got over 100 sheets of discontinued or slightly damaged sheet goods for $300. I got the call first because of my loyalty and personal connection to those employees. For my top customers I get personal gifts. Something that took thought is more important than cash or a gift card IMO. It is remembered.

    $20 is a insult? Open your eyes and wake up. $20 means a lot to a majority of the population and I highly doubt anyone would be insulted.

  3. #33
    College Freshman VolunteerSign's Avatar
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    I'm already old, but if I ever get old AND as jaded as Bob I hope someone will just shoot me. I haven't been here that long but surely, somewhere in time Bob has contributed something that wasn't negative....well?

  4. #34
    PhD watsons signs's Avatar
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    We give our UPS driver a tim hortons gift card every christmas, $20 i think.

    Our UPS guy does go above and beyond for us, he will come back later in the day after his scheduled pick up if we tell him we have another order that is almost ready, he brings the packages into our shop for us, no matter the weather etc.

    In comparison, our purolator driver is a miserable old ba***rd, if the box weighs more than 3 lbs, he asks us to get it off the truck for him, doesn't deliver to us untill almost 4pm because he can't be bothered.

  5. #35
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    Once you gave, they will expect more. I gave them water and snack sometimes. Averagely $4,000 monthly plus bonus and vacations. Three years ago I checked, in order to get into driver position, wait three years.
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  6. #36
    College Sophomore WeekendDirectionals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkRight View Post
    Something more personal is the way to go.
    A fruit or cheese basket ,a product that you produce (stickers, small sign for the yard,calendars,magnets),promotional supplies.
    Most people have a relationship with regular drivers, UPS, FedEx ,sign supply etc....
    Just like yourself , it is nice to be recognized.
    Something small that make people feel appreciated , and who does not like getting something free.
    And don't forget your cash cow customers... They get the 20 year old single malt and hats and shirts....

    While Christmas is still legal,go with it.
    Agreed, last year we had 200 candy and chocolate covered pretzel, cookie plates made locally which we gave our customers and delivery guys etc. No one didn't smile when we gave them one. Many of our customers even said, "really for me!"..

    The fact almost no one does it makes it a better time to do it IMHO.

    This year we bought personalized mugs which my wife figured how to fill it with about ten inches of candy in a plastic wrapper.

  7. #37
    College Freshman rydods's Avatar
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    We have delivery service up here called speedy. A couple of years ago we had a snow storm and we were snowed in and the delivery guy couldnt make it down the driveway which is actually about 400 ft from the highway to my shop. This guy hand carted through the snow all the way to my shop. I saw these tracks and thought a cross country skier had come down the driveway until it led to my packages and I put 2 and 2 together.

  8. #38
    PhD ProWraps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolunteerSign View Post
    somewhere in time Bob has contributed something that wasn't negative....well?
    no.

  9. #39
    PhD bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolunteerSign View Post
    I'm already old, but if I ever get old AND as jaded as Bob I hope someone will just shoot me. I haven't been here that long but surely, somewhere in time Bob has contributed something that wasn't negative....well?
    Please explain which part of my opinion was 'negative'. That I consider something to be silly that you do not?

  10. #40
    Merchant Member WildWestDesigns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    They work where they do because that's what they have chosen for themselves.
    Over generalization and in some instances out right false.

    I know plenty of people that work where they do, because that's the job that they were able to get, but not what they would have chosen for themselves. Some out of laziness, some out of bad circumstances, but to say that they all chose this or that as a career is very much a logical fallacy.

    As to what is negative about the rest of your post:

    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    Tip a UPS driver? Are you unhinged?

    They already make a princely wage to do their job. What would possess anyone to offer to subsidizes UPS's help or worse, bribe them into better service.

    Tipping in general... A silly custom. The entire notion of subsidizing and/or bribing someone else's employees is inane. The standard cry in defense of this custom invariably refers to minimum wage workers. How is it my problem that someone with whom I find myself interacting cannot get a better job? They work where they do because that's what they have chosen for themselves.
    What is in bold does not in my mind conjure up good warm fuzzy feelings.

    Just add in the public work houses in the conversation and I can easily see Scrooge saying everything that you just did.
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  11. #41
    College Freshman VolunteerSign's Avatar
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    Yes Bob, what my fellow Tennessean said

  12. #42
    PhD bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildWestDesigns View Post
    Over generalization and in some instances out right false.

    I know plenty of people that work where they do, because that's the job that they were able to get, but not what they would have chosen for themselves. Some out of laziness, some out of bad circumstances, but to say that they all chose this or that as a career is very much a logical fallacy...
    Fallacy? I think not. A fallacy is, by definition, an error in reasoning.

    Every human being is responsible for its own condition. You might not want to accept that premise, but it is the case. Couple that with the proposition that you always have a choice, true regardless of whether or not you accept it. From these it follows as the night unto the day that everyone is what they have chosen to be. Not in one big choice perhaps, like I choose to be poor, I choose to sweep floors, etc. rather everyone is the sum total of all of the choices they have made to date in their lives.

    No fallacy, merely an exercise in simple sentential deduction. Just so you know, in a deductive argument if the premises are true, which they are, and the argument form is valid, which it is, then the conclusion[s] must necessarily be true. They are inarguable.

    If someone is working at some less than desirable job, it's what they have chosen for themselves. I refuse to be responsible for someone else's choices.

    ...As to what is negative about the rest of your post:

    What is in bold does not in my mind conjure up good warm fuzzy feelings...
    Ah, so in order to not be 'negative' something must leave you warm and fuzzy, perhaps thinking of puppies, lollipops, and balloons? Otherwise it's consigned to the scrapheap of negativity?

  13. #43
    PhD Coloradosigns's Avatar
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    Balloons make you feel fuzzy bob? Good to know, good to know.

  14. #44
    PhD Jillbeans's Avatar
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    I give cookies at Christmas to anyone who does any kind of routine service for me
    (sign supply delivery guy, UPS, mail lady, garbage man, school bus driver)
    I can never afford a money gift but I do make good cookies.
    Love....Jill

  15. #45
    Merchant Member WildWestDesigns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    Fallacy? I think not. A fallacy is, by definition, an error in reasoning.
    In this case it is. In order for your statement to be true, it has to be true in every single instance. It is not. I know of several that they do what they do in order to put food on the table, not because they wanted to do it. Or it's a life choice that they would have made.

    I guess the real issue is what is meant be "choice". Do they take that job because it's what they wanted to do or did they take that job, because the alternative is worse? If it's because the alternative is worse, than is it really a choice?



    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    Every human being is responsible for its own condition. You might not want to accept that premise, but it is the case.
    In every single instance, a person is responsible for their own condition is that what you are telling me?

    I'm sure everyone that were displaced by storms (or other natural disasters) it was their own fault for that condition that they are in. Even if they did build their homes and businesses in flood planes. They chose what happened.

    I'm sorry, I don't buy that.

    I'm not all warm and fuzzy, but I don't buy that.

    Some do make their own beds yes and at times it's hard to tell who is who, so I guess you are error-ring on the side of caution. I can by cynical at times too, but I'm not to the point where I believe that is the case all the time. Hell, I've seen it in my own family (not my immediate one mind you).

    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    No fallacy, merely an exercise in simple sentential deduction. Just so you know, in a deductive argument if the premises are true, which they are, and the argument form is valid, which it is, then the conclusion[s] must necessarily be true. They are inarguable.
    As you see it in this case, I'm sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    If someone is working at some less than desirable job, it's what they have chosen for themselves. I refuse to be responsible for someone else's choices.
    I'm sorry, but I wouldn't chose for myself to work at some undesirable job. I might have to do so for my family, but I wouldn't have chosen it for myself.

    No one is talking about being responsible for someone else condition or "adopting them" or in any manner fully supporting them. I don't consider the little holiday gifts that I have reserved as my customers (or vendors) as such. But if there is a little extra, I don't mind helping someone out or just doing something thoughtful. That's it. I'm not talking about sending their kids to college.


    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    Ah, so in order to not be 'negative' something must leave you warm and fuzzy, perhaps thinking of puppies, lollipops, and balloons? Otherwise it's consigned to the scrapheap of negativity?
    No, it can be neutral in tone as well. It doesn't have to be positive.

    I get the feeling that you tend to think of things as all or nothing, black and white etc. Not really how the world works. It can be good in theory, but it's not how it works.
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  16. #46
    Merchant Member WildWestDesigns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jillbeans View Post
    I give cookies at Christmas to anyone who does any kind of routine service for me
    (sign supply delivery guy, UPS, mail lady, garbage man, school bus driver)
    I can never afford a money gift but I do make good cookies.
    Love....Jill
    I think that's what we are really talking about here. Just something a little thoughtful, especially if they do go above and beyond as "you" see it in their service, which is something that quite a lot of us do for our customers compared to the big places that are our competition and can't provide that type of "extra care".

    Hell, I just would settle for a thank you in that case, but I get a little extra "tip" every now and then. Sometimes cash, sometimes it's a gift card, sometimes it's holiday treats. Just a little nice gesture. I certainly don't think that they are responsible for my "condition".
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  17. #47
    PhD bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildWestDesigns View Post
    ...I guess the real issue is what is meant be "choice". Do they take that job because it's what they wanted to do or did they take that job, because the alternative is worse? If it's because the alternative is worse, than is it really a choice?...
    It most certainly is a choice. Different from choosing vanilla or chocolate only in degree, not in kind. That something is a choice that any sane person would make does not make it any less a choice. As long as an alternative exists, there is a choice.

    The part you fail to grasp is not the choice betwixt taking some menial job or whatever alternative might await, but the sum total of all of the choices you have made that have lead you to this particular choice. It is not fallacious to assume that had those previous choices been different you wouldn't be presented with this choice.

    ...In every single instance, a person is responsible for their own condition is that what you are telling me?

    I'm sure everyone that were displaced by storms (or other natural disasters) it was their own fault for that condition that they are in. Even if they did build their homes and businesses in flood planes. They chose what happened....
    Completely. Let me take the notion of choice to the next level. I'm hesitant to do this because at first glance it sounds desperately tautological, but it's not. If you've walked the necessary philosophical road, you might understand it. If you haven't, it will appear as nonsense. Nonetheless, here it is...

    You always have a choice, except when you don't have a choice.

    If a big rock falls from the sky and crushes you, you have no choice. Contrariwise, if you choose to live where the probability of natural disaster is greater than at some other location, then you made a choice.

    Perhaps an informal paraphrasing of the principle of 'choice except when not' is that you may not be responsible for the cards you're dealt but you sure a hell are responsible for how you play them.

    ...I'm sorry, I don't buy that...
    Well then, that settles it, eh? You don't subscribe therefore it cannot be the case.

    ...I'm sorry, but I wouldn't chose for myself to work at some undesirable job. I might have to do so for my family, but I wouldn't have chosen it for myself...
    A choice nonetheless. Your reasons for choosing as you do are your own but you must necessarily accept responsibility for any outcome regardless you how you rationalize your decision.

  18. #48
    john1
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    I'm pretty sure UPS drivers make a good amount of money, Tipping is not needed IMO.

  19. #49
    Bachelor of Arts DizzyMarkus's Avatar
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    Again what does how much you make determine a thankful gift or thoughtful gesture of appreciation?

    Markus

  20. #50
    Master of Arts ironchef's Avatar
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    In restaurants, waiters/servers get paid 3-4dollars an hour plus tips. Busboys and the greeters get paid 8 an hour and a lower percentage of the tips, really the waiters tip them. Do cooks get tipped? No. And thats what really grinds my gears

  21. #51
    PhD Pat Whatley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    Tipping in general... A silly custom. The entire notion of subsidizing and/or bribing someone else's employees is inane. The standard cry in defense of this custom invariably refers to minimum wage workers. How is it my problem that someone with whom I find myself interacting cannot get a better job? They work where they do because that's what they have chosen for themselves.
    Mr. Pink has spoken.

  22. #52
    john1
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    Quote Originally Posted by DizzyMarkus View Post
    Again what does how much you make determine a thankful gift or thoughtful gesture of appreciation?

    Markus
    UPS drivers are just doing their jobs, You tip waiters because it's just what you do if they did a good job. Not UPS drivers.

    They make plenty of money, I just don't think tipping them would be appreciated even at the holidays. Typically this has proven correct in situations i have been in. Someone who doesn't make as much would appreciate it much more i would think.

    My opinion is my opinion, If you don't agree with it i could care less.

  23. #53
    Bachelor of Arts DizzyMarkus's Avatar
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    My opinion is my opinion, If you don't agree with it i could care less.
    I mearly asked a question about your response -- there sure are some touchy people around here-- sorry if your feathers got ruffled-- it was a serious question not poking fun!

    Markus

  24. #54
    john1
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    I'm not ruffled at all lol

    No biggie.

  25. #55
    Merchant Member WildWestDesigns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post

    The part you fail to grasp is not the choice betwixt taking some menial job or whatever alternative might await, but the sum total of all of the choices you have made that have lead you to this particular choice. It is not fallacious to assume that had those previous choices been different you wouldn't be presented with this choice.
    It may not be fallacious to make the assumption, but that does not in of itself mean that the assumption is a correct one to make.

    Your assumption, as I'm understanding it, is that they are directly responsible for everything that has lead to them dealing with whatever issue during this point in time.

    That may be indeed be the case in some instances, however, not in all. That's the issue with your assumption that I have.



    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post

    Perhaps an informal paraphrasing of the principle of 'choice except when not' is that you may not be responsible for the cards you're dealt but you sure a hell are responsible for how you play them.
    Oddly enough, I do agree with that. But you are taking it beyond the scope of that. You assume that in every instance for everyone there is a choice. In order for that to be true, everyone would have to know all the facts before hand and how the events would play out. Not all the time mind you, there are some assumptions that people could make that might have lead them to another decision that they could have reasonably have made, but not every time and it's those instances that your thesis doesn't account for and where it falls short.


    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    Well then, that settles it, eh? You don't subscribe therefore it cannot be the case.
    No, it means exactly what is stated. I don't subscribe to it. It could still be the case and I could be wrong, which is why I participate in these "discussions" to learn, to grow. I'm not as close minded as you might think.


    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    A choice nonetheless. Your reasons for choosing as you do are your own but you must necessarily accept responsibility for any outcome regardless you how you rationalize your decision.
    But, it may not have been of my choosing that I was in that position like your thesis dictates. How I handle it and how I move on are indeed my responsibility, how I got there may not.


    Quote Originally Posted by DizzyMarkus View Post
    Again what does how much you make determine a thankful gift or thoughtful gesture of appreciation?

    Markus
    Best as I can figure is that as long as they do their job that is commiserate with their pay then it's good enough. That's what I can figure from bob's point of view. I could be wrong, but that's what I'm reading into it.

    I don't care so much if they choose not to do it or to do it. What really does concern me is that they choose to vilify or strongly criticize my doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    Tip a UPS driver? Are you unhinged?

    They already make a princely wage to do their job. What would possess anyone to offer to subsidizes UPS's help or worse, bribe them into better service.
    I don't consider it bribery if they initiated with the above and beyond service. There are some people that are really good at service and taking care of people. That takes a special person. I see what some of them get from customers that probably think along the lines of bob and yet that still march on. I wouldn't be able to do that. To me, it's worth showing a little extra of appreciation.
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  26. #56
    Merchant Member WildWestDesigns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironchef View Post
    In restaurants, waiters/servers get paid 3-4dollars an hour plus tips. Busboys and the greeters get paid 8 an hour and a lower percentage of the tips, really the waiters tip them. Do cooks get tipped? No. And thats what really grinds my gears
    Cooks/Chefs are typically higher up on the totem though. Not always, but they typically are.

    However, you do have to realize that the servers are the ones on the front lines. The cook screws up, the servers are going to be the ones that get the brunt of it. Even if the cook didn't screw up, but he customers like to pretend things are bad in order to get the free meal. I feel bad for the servers that have to put up with those people.
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  27. #57
    PhD Typestries's Avatar
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    I see it differently. We depend on our UPS driver. She comes early, bends the stupid little UPS rules for us, and picks up extra late. All of these things allow us to provide better service to our clients, and in turn grow our business and our bottom line. So, yes, I recognize that with a decent christmas gift over $50.

  28. #58
    College Freshman VolunteerSign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    If a big rock falls from the sky and crushes you, you have no choice.
    Using your own reasoning Bob, the guy that gets smushed by the big rock falling from the sky had a choice. He could have CHOSEN to stand 6 feet to the left before the rock fell...he could have CHOSEN to look up in time to see the rock and move. Heck he could have CHOSEN to be at home tipping his UPS driver and been a hundred miles away.

    Sorry Bob Scrooge...try again...bah humbug.

  29. #59
    PhD bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolunteerSign View Post
    Using your own reasoning Bob, the guy that gets smushed by the big rock falling from the sky had a choice. He could have CHOSEN to stand 6 feet to the left before the rock fell...he could have CHOSEN to look up in time to see the rock and move. Heck he could have CHOSEN to be at home tipping his UPS driver and been a hundred miles away.

    Sorry Bob Scrooge...try again...bah humbug.
    Sigh, I can only quote the late and sometimes great R.A.H. "Never try to teach a pig to sing. Not only is it a waste of your time but it annoys the pig."

    Are you really as obtuse as you appear or is it just part of your scene?

  30. #60
    PhD GAC05's Avatar
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    My understanding is that you always tip the ladies after each dance or the big scary guy at the door throws you out. Seems that 95% of them need the tips as they are working their way through nursing school.

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