CANON OCE 1650 Printer Lamination Not Needed?

[Squared2002]

Hello, trying to Geta feels of what we are being told by our Canon sales guy. We have ben looking at the Canon 1650 for wallpaper which we feel would be a good choice but our sales guy has stated he feels we could easily replace our Latex Printers we use for Vehicle Vinyls and Off-Road Graphics Vinyls with it. y main concerns are with the old theory of UV Inks not Laminating as well and not being Flexible enough? He has also stated that he thought we could eliminate the need for Laminating our Vehicle Graphics using their UV Gel Printer? Does anyone have first hand experience with this? W era going to dem the machine but it would sure be helpful if someone has some tips, tricks, pros, cons we could watch for? Thank You

 

[White Haus]

I don't have any first hand experience with the Colorado, but I do have a tip: Don't believe what salesmen tell you. They'll say anything to make a sale, then who cares what you discover down the road.

Personally I would never put anything unlaminated on a vehicle unless it's coming off in a month.

 

[KEYSER SOZE]

Prints from the 1650 laminate beautifully, and it sticks.

The way the Colorado prints and cures with separate carriages give the ink time to smooth out and go glossy, unlike traditional UV which cures the ink instantly in little domes of ink which results in a satin/matte textured finish.
Textured finish = silvering and lack of adhesion.

We do 50-100 metres a day with Oracal 3551 Poly with 215 laminate, 3M IJ180/280 Cast with 8428 laminate, and Oracal 3951 Cast with 290 laminate on a couple of Karla Mistral laminators.

The ink is flexible enough for most wraps with the right techniques, that said, if it's really curly like a bumper corner, solvent will give a better result.

Most of what we do is for heavy vehicles as well as vans and utes.
Panel size accuracy and colour consistency between panels is mind-blowingly good, critical for 10 metre truck sides.

Scratch resistance is excellent, better than Latex and way better than solvent, which is great for corflutes etc. but as Mr. Haus says, if it's going on a vehicle it should always be laminated.

We've had ours for 2.5 years now, it's been genuinely life changing.

(The Black however is crap, my customers sarcastically call it "Colorado Black").

 

[AlsEU]

Prints from the 1650 laminate beautifully, and it sticks.

The way the Colorado prints and cures with separate carriages give the ink time to smooth out and go glossy, unlike traditional UV which cures the ink instantly in little domes of ink which results in a satin/matte textured finish.

Unless you have a UV printer with a glossy finish.

 

[KEYSER SOZE]

Unless you have a UV printer with a glossy finish.

Now I'm curios, we're currently in the market for a Flatbed/Hybrid UV printer, which brand are you referring to ?

I've watched in person and seen samples from all of the recognized brands available in Australia, some of the prints are fabulous especially the SwissQ.
None of them offer a smooth high gloss finish though, the harder non-flexible inks are glossier but they all still cure in tiny domes and don't laminate well, which is the issue here.

 

[victor bogdanov]

Canon does have that video where they compared a laminated wrap to an unlaminated wrap and they're was no color change difference after 6 months. Car was kept outdoors and went through lots of car washes. Video is on the Canon site, maybe they have a newer update posted.

 

[victor bogdanov]

But aside from the unlaminated wrap question there is no printer that comes close in terms of speed, quality, consistency, ease of use, ink cost. I have 150k sqft on mine since November and was one of the best business decisions I have made. Once you get used to the colorado you won't want to use the latex

 

[AlsEU]

Now I'm curios, we're currently in the market for a Flatbed/Hybrid UV printer, which brand are you referring to ?

I've watched in person and seen samples from all of the recognized brands available in Australia, some of the prints are fabulous especially the SwissQ.
None of them offer a smooth high gloss finish though, the harder non-flexible inks are glossier but they all still cure in tiny domes and don't laminate well, which is the issue here.

Have you seen samples printed on Inca Onset?

 

[Pauly]

Now I'm curios, we're currently in the market for a Flatbed/Hybrid UV printer, which brand are you referring to ?

I've watched in person and seen samples from all of the recognized brands available in Australia, some of the prints are fabulous especially the SwissQ.
None of them offer a smooth high gloss finish though, the harder non-flexible inks are glossier but they all still cure in tiny domes and don't laminate well, which is the issue here.

You’re not going to find a UV flatbed that will gloss like the Colorado does.

HP R1000 finishes the same sheen as the substrate I'm pretty sure. that's your best bet.

 

[KEYSER SOZE]

You’re not going to find a UV flatbed that will gloss like the Colorado does.

HP R1000 finishes the same sheen as the substrate I'm pretty sure. that's your best bet.

Hello Paul,

My question was a bit facetious, it's not achievable with UV without separating the 2 processes.
Printing truck sides with an Inca Onset ? Wow that would be something.
I think Mr AlsEU is having me on.....

I'm not interested in the HP R series, but how have you found your Arizona?
Canon have been brilliant here in Adelaide, having 2 techs on same day call.

 

[ikarasu]

Hello, trying to Geta feels of what we are being told by our Canon sales guy. We have ben looking at the Canon 1650 for wallpaper which we feel would be a good choice but our sales guy has stated he feels we could easily replace our Latex Printers we use for Vehicle Vinyls and Off-Road Graphics Vinyls with it. y main concerns are with the old theory of UV Inks not Laminating as well and not being Flexible enough? He has also stated that he thought we could eliminate the need for Laminating our Vehicle Graphics using their UV Gel Printer? Does anyone have first hand experience with this? W era going to dem the machine but it would sure be helpful if someone has some tips, tricks, pros, cons we could watch for? Thank You

Even if you could... Trust me, you never would.

Ask your installers how they feel about doing a vehicle wrap on vinyl with no overlam. It'll stretch so much and be so distorted... The time and money you save on overlam would be wasted on install time and reprints. Cast wrap vinyl is way too thin... Now if you're talking about doing some fleet decals or something, you may have a chance at doing that with no overlam... but that'll be dependant on where you're located, and how much sun you get.


Latex is great as well, and sure it'll last years without being laminated - but can you imagine it going through a car wash getting rubbed / wet with soaps and chemicals? For what people pay for a wrap, you shouldnt cheap out on material and make it last half as long. 3

 

[BigfishDM]

Its salesreps like that who are going to destroy someones new business. NO ONE WOULD EVER INSTALL UNLAMINATED WRAPS!! Idiots! What horrible advice they tell you to sell their equipment, seems very unethical in my opinion. Did he also tell you that you could drive your car with your feet if you wanted to?

 

[AlsEU]

Hello Paul,

My question was a bit facetious, it's not achievable with UV without separating the 2 processes.
Printing truck sides with an Inca Onset ? Wow that would be something.
I think Mr AlsEU is having me on.....

I'm not interested in the HP R series, but how have you found your Arizona?
Canon have been brilliant here in Adelaide, having 2 techs on same day call.

You never said you want to print truck sides. It's doable on the Onset (I don't mean it's effective or profitable). Both Onset and Arizona could print on tarpaulins (when cut into sheets), but anyway it's not sellable - unfortunately, truck sides require better adhesion/resistance than the UV printing offers, so either digital solvent printing or screenprinting using the solvent inks (depending on the size of the printing and amount of pieces).

 

[KEYSER SOZE]

You never said you want to print truck sides. It's doable on the Onset (I don't mean it's effective or profitable). Both Onset and Arizona could print on tarpaulins (when cut into sheets), but anyway it's not sellable - unfortunately, truck sides require better adhesion/resistance than the UV printing offers, so either digital solvent printing or screenprinting using the solvent inks (depending on the size of the printing and amount of pieces).

Well actually I did, but we already have that covered with the RTR Colorado , you'd never do it on a flatbed.
The original question on this thread was about laminating UV printing for vehicles, which as I mentioned ain't successful with standard single carriage UV printers no matter the price.

The Arizona query was for just for standard board stuff.