Ink Adhesion Issues on Styrene

[Adam Vreeke]

So I am having some trouble with ink adhesion on our JFX200-2513EX running LUS120 ink. Here is the deal; it is .015 styrene, double sided flood color. Since they are cut into 1 x 3 pieces with shared cut lines. So I do a heavy score and break the pieces apart. This method worked very well with out harder LH100 ink; however, with the softer more flexible ink of LUS120 I am having trouble were the ink on the back side will flex and tear ink off of pieces on the back side.

I have tried varying ink percentages of the machine Primer (PR-200) 20%, 35% 40% 50% 75% and 100%, with different irradiation levels (just 100% and 130%). I have tried these with varying lamp positions 65/65, 65/0, 90/0, 0/0, 90/90. Everything I seem to do with primer leaves the CMYK level extremely tacky, and I can just wipe away the ink with my finger.

I am just about to try different levels of a white under base just for funsies now, but I am getting to my whit's end with this. Has anyone had any luck with machine primer on styrene? If so are there good setting you have had success with?

I would normally hit this with our machine with the LH100 ink as I have ran this job multiple times on there with no issues, but that machine is booked solid for about 3 weeks. I am also new to machine primer, so I am wondering if I am missing something, I have been treating it about the same as clear ink with lamp positions and such.

EDIT: The UV lamp glass is free of fog.

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

I'd definitely try and go the LUS-150 route on styrene, 120 is trickier to get to stick to surfaces like that and LH100 is bad about cracking on anything that flexes. PR200 I find to be amazing at wrecking print heads and little else, but brush on adhesion promoters can be a great solution.

 

[Adam Vreeke]

I'd definitely try and go the LUS-150 route on styrene, 120 is trickier to get to stick to surfaces like that and LH100 is bad about cracking on anything that flexes. PR200 I find to be amazing at wrecking print heads and little else, but brush on adhesion promoters can be a great solution.

Thanks as always for the reply Smoke. We have had the LH100 since 2016 or so, so we are aware of the downfall of it. I am not sure if I would want to switch over to LUS150 for just a single job. I am hesitant to use wipe on primers as since it is full coverage I have had issues with uneven drying and / or wipe marks. And it's nice to know I am not the only one that thinks that about the PR200.

We did make a work around as a back up just in case, and we may just go that way with it (just chop it down on paper cutter).

 

[Smoke_Jaguar]

Any time I see PR200 on a machine we're rebuilding, I treat it as if someone accidentally filled the channel with Pine-Sol or yogurt. Flush it the hell out and hope for the best.

But, yeah, ink swaps are a massive pain. If adhesion promoters weren't so nasty chemically speaking, would love to find one that'd work in a spray gun or similar. But, it can be really nasty stuff.

 

[Corwin Steeves]

Is it possible that it's the styrene itself? The dine levels of corona treatment drop over time. Older styrene has terrible adhesion issues with UV inks. Making sure that you have "fresh" styrene is so important with UV printing. If the styrene is good, you might not be able to do the score and snap and have to cut all the way through the styrene. Not sure if that is an issue with your cutting table?

 

[Adam Vreeke]

Is it possible that it's the styrene itself? The dine levels of corona treatment drop over time. Older styrene has terrible adhesion issues with UV inks. Making sure that you have "fresh" styrene is so important with UV printing. If the styrene is good, you might not be able to do the score and snap and have to cut all the way through the styrene. Not sure if that is an issue with your cutting table?

That was another thought I had. I have been running some styrene that has been on the shelf for maybe about 8 months or so, but I am just about to break into fresh styrene so I guess we will see.

The issue with the through cut on our cutter is that it is shared cuts, so the blade will drag rows after cutting. Our solution to that is to square cut the outside of the print and then do a through cut on them on the paper cutter.

 

[Corwin Steeves]

Is there not enough vacuum pressure on the cutting table to hold the styrene in place for a through cut?

 

[Adam Vreeke]

Is there not enough vacuum pressure on the cutting table to hold the styrene in place for a through cut?

Not with a 1.5" x 3" piece on that thick of styrene with shared cuts unfortunately.

 

[Grizzly]

The only way to get around this is typically to route. Which would probably be hard due to the small size. I don't think it's the ink or adhesion. It's the nature of the back side cut that pushes everything down and breaks the back side.
It's displaying the natural issue showing up because their is ink on it. I wonder if you printed single sided on both sides of the sheet and cut facing up. If there is no issue there it's not the material or ink.

 

[Corwin Steeves]

With styrene that thin and a sharp blade it should cut. Are you masking off all of the areas where vacuum pressure could be escaping? How many degrees is the blade that you're using? The blade should be at least 80 degrees.