New Mimaki CJV-30-130 or Roland VP-540?

[design unfolds]

Hi everyone. Just found out that Mimaki is going to release their new print and cut machine in 1st October 2008. I was planning to buy Roland VP-540 before and now i have to re-think again. Which one should i buy?

I have just been to a reseller 2 days ago to see the Roland XC-540 machine. He said the white ink is very easy to dry and said unless i have many jobs for white ink, otherwise not suggest using white ink at all. Is this true? As Mimaki CJV-30-130 can also print white, will that be a problem?

Any suggestions for these two machine will be great. Roland VP-540 and Mimaki CJV-30-130. THANKS!

 

[Mainframe]

As I just posted in another thread I just bought a roland 540 vp - I say GO FOR IT! I LOVE THIS MACHINE! it has awesome output & is very user friendly, the the versaworks is set up nicely even for a novice, which is a bonus if you ask me , I would go with Roland if you have a good local dealer , you won't be sorry

 

[design unfolds]

The VP-540 was my choice, but Mimaki seems not bad either as they have white ink and Uninterrupted Ink Supply System. The most important thing for me is the 2 years warranty and take up unit. It is so hard to choose.

 

[wes70]

Comparing prices between the mimaki cjv series and the rolands...roland seems to have the better price and warranty atleast in my part of the world. Also, mimaki has some weird media widths...39"?

 

[signage]

The white ink if not used daily can cause problems, due to containing Titanium oxide

 

[anotherdog]

I'm also very interested in this topic.
I was drooling over that valuejet until I visited a friend and he talked up the Roland.
I guess the issues is the Mimaki is an unproven cut system, where the roland has been working and tweaking for years.

 

[design unfolds]

The price are very similar in my part of the world UK.
VP-540 £11,050
CJV-30-100 £11,000
CJV-30-130 £13,000
My reseller said the Mimaki comes with Take up unit and 8x440ml ink. The take up unit on Roland itself cost £1450 already. And the machine is a bit faster.

 

[CustomRide]

I was at the show in Indy where they released it back in Sept and it looks nice and they had it running. However a buddy of mine went the next day and they were having issues with the CJV model. The sales guy told me they could not sell until the 15th of Sept cause they were waiting on the UL cert for the machines. They were msrp'ing the 42 inch at like 19k which I thought was kind of steep especially when the media out is difficult to find between 30in-54in that's just imo. I like the Uninterrupted Ink Supply System and how the mild solvent reds look but not enough to spend that dough.

Grimco was giving out some decent deals on a cutter and jv33 I would go that route.

 

[anotherdog]

at that price you could go with a valuejet AND a cutter.

 

[mimakitech24]

many people (would) spend maybe a little more for both machines, but don't have the space, which is why Mimaki came out with this machine...looks to be winner though!

 

[ScotJ]

Personally I'd say get two seperate units. If production picks up do you want one machine tied up doing two different tasks? I guess alot of it is a space thing.

Media wise I wouldn't suggest getting anything less than a 54". Right now it may seem like a good buy, but your shooting your self in the foot in the long run IMHO.

We have the Jv33 and love it - but Ive heard the same from alot of roland owners as well.

 

[DigitalBBQ]

PRINT/CUT V.S. PRINT and then CUT

After seeing CJV30 demo in person, found the followings:

1 ) The CJV30 PRINT/CUT initial media automatic setup:
This machine read the media thickness, automatic roller height adjustment, but yet I found it to be time consuming.
It read the media width from left to right, then it scan and adjust EACH of the pinch roller and using pin-setter-like automotive lock actuator mechanism to set pinch's roller level according to the thickness the user set.
If you send print job, it will put down all pinch rollers, then after print, it roll back media, THEN the cutter head came out again, and disengage all pinch roller in between but the far LEFT, and far RIGHT for cutting width parameter.

I found this to be a bit chubby, automatic and charming, but not entirely efficient for robust production environment. Since most user will need to change media from one to another during day-in-day-out production, and then having to wait for all these automatic media clamps episode to finish before you can do anything.

As in compare to Roland HUMAN INTERVENTION style pinch rollers. You can either ADD pinch roller set between the far LEFT and the far RIGHT ( Cutter usually have the Far left and Far right engage for cutting most of materials )
or you have the option to ADD the middle pinch roller if the media is thick and required. Most of less than 8 mils will have no need to add middle set of pinch roller at all.

Don't know if CJV30 has preset to memory of PRINT/CUT preference so it doesn't keep reading and reading each pinch roller but I seriously doubt it has the capability since it incorporate media width reading with the pinch rollers automatic function. Asked the DEMO TECH, but they have no clue!


2 ) CJV30 PRINTING:
As I am a JV33 user, the print quality of the CJV30 is the same level as the JV33 it use DX5 print head which is 8 colors arrangement in one single head, when set CCYYMMKK color mode, it print super fast and quality is also great.

Compare the printing to VP-540 of Roland, this printer still using DX4 with each color separate head. The speed will be a bit slower than the JV33 or CJV30 in compare to Mimaki's CCYYMMKK mode but speed also has to do with quality vs. speed as well.

QUALITY OF PRINTING: JV33 has limited preset profile available as compare to Roland's Versawork. So to say the least, quality of printing depend on the material, profile, and software delivery the profile. RasterLINKPRO can be alter to fit printing need, but I found that versawork is a much easier interface to handle when it come to customize print setting.


3 ) CJV30 PRINT and then CUT:
Don't have much information about this objective since there is no specific demonstration of PRINT first, then go laminate, and then come back to CUT with CJV30. I only see the CJV30 Print and Cut right away , I guess it would work the same way as Graphtec ARMS with their plug-in for crop mark for illustrator and coral. However, as also a ROLAND print/cut machine owner, I know that Roland versawork can print its own CROP MARKS, then you can take the media to be laminated, and then bring back to Roland PRINT/CUT machine , and send the just CUT of the same job, versawork will automatically engage in detecting pre-printed crop marks, and contour cut it.

4 ) Pro and Con about PRINT/CUT machine ?

Pro: Save space, one machine to do all, smaller shop will be great .

Con:
Since I do have Roland PRINT/CUT machine to work with, I found that some job, perhaps most of the job required the artwork to be laminated first anyway. So I would go with the best way for cutter to READ registration mark. ROLAND has amazing function on this but if you plan to print like more than 30 of larger size decals, you might as well consider getting a GRAPHTEC cutter to do just the cut part. I have the CE series , this little monster cut like there's no tomorrow. FAST FAST FAST. Decals of 300 pieces of about 4"x6" only take less than 30 minutes to cut them all. But if you use ROLAND or CJV30 for smaller details cutting it will be like using Elephant to pick up an apple, it can do it but handling will be slower. Graphtec cutter with ARMS is the way to go. You can pick one CE series which have the ARMS sensor 30" about $2,000 or less, and have it just cut the contour, and use printer to just do the printing.


PRINT/CUT SOLUTION:
CJV30 54" run about $23K or less with promotion.
Roland VP-540 54" run about $21K or less with promotion.

PRINT and CUT with other machine:
JV33 54" run about $17K more or less
with Graphtec CE series 54" run about $5K

or,

Roland RS-640 run at $17K
with Graphtec CE series 54" run about $5K

Price is base on my observation of October 2008

As you can see, they are roughly about the same the newly released machine will be about 15% to 20% higher than what it should be, but relatively they are destine to come down in price, and ended at its competitor's value.
Depend on each dealer too who you buy from , each dealer have different CEO with different portfolio so they may run thing differently when you buy these machine. Before and After major convention is the time to make deal with your dealer. Smaller dealer may have attractive incentive, but they will get to rip you off on the service call. In compare to big dealer, they have standard pricing, but you can wait for promotion run and take advantage of.

Roland has 2 years warranty :U Rock:, this is another objective for you to take consideration since you want to learn about your printer as much as you can before one of those TECHNO service call guy show up and charge you $300 to say hello and $150 an hour to clean your miss fire print-head which you can practically do it yourself for as nothing as a cost of cleaning solution which about $50 and a pack of cleaning swap of $20. Also, 2 years will give you enough time to lean that your eyes as the owner when looking at bi-directional print pattern will be a lot more precise than those TECHNO service call guy. No offence, they just want to get BANG for the BUCK and left to go to the next job.
I been there and done that and leaning that people just work for the money will have no care of the quality of printing results. The worst part, you stuck with the machine when bad adjustment resulted from careless techs,but they are having paycheck at the end of service call. Not every tech is bad, but just know how your machine calibrate, printing, cleaning, and what consumable parts you need will keep you a wise and informed user.

For myself, I see these sign supplier try to sell the machine to a retired couple for $50K as example , and see that the learning curve in design, execution, and machine operation will put these potential buyers in a profitable service call , supplies, etc. It just make me sick in the stomach. On top of things, many of the sign supplier who sell these machine, only a few people in supply sale will know the digital printing materials , or knowing what material available for what sign projects. But it's all o.k. we have these wonderful web forum so we can exchange information of what and how.