Pricing ballpark

[CanuckSigns]

I've got a job to quote that is stumping me a bit.

It calls for around 2500 sq/ft of 3M electrocut 2 mil vinyl to be installed on the interior side of Windows to form a large design. Panels are about 4'x12' all one colour (white). The architect has provided all the artwork in vector format, but I'm going to have to go on site and re measure each window to double check sizes.

The pattern is very intricate, so there will be quite a bit of machine time, plus weeding & masking

It's been a while since I've priced a cut job this large, I'm not sure how to go.

I've got an idea of $10.50 sq/ft installed, does that sound about right?

 

[reQ]

My average price on cutvinyl stuff is 8 sqft installed, but again, if it would take more time for cutting & weeding, it might always go up. I don't think your price is to much, i would say don't go below 8

 

[player]

The site visit should be completely separate from the cut and stick.

Remember what people charge here they get 35% more for their money and pay 35% less for
their materials.

I would do a really comprehensive time and material estimate. I bet it is easy to get to $4K.

Don't forget to add in the cost to come up with the price. That's called "Building A Specification" and is billable.

 

[Andy D]

Ballpark, not knowing much about the job, such as how high off the ground,
if it's a 3M series white that's $900 or $300 a roll, If the 4' x 12' can be done in one piece...

I would say $10.50 a square foot for a cut vinyl job that size, one color, is way too much, but then again, maybe not...

My best guess would be $4.50- $8.00 a square foot....

 

[nashvillesigns]

pricing

Its elementary Mr. Watson,

The customer is asking for 3M. not some cheap material. they are expecting a not cheap price...

This is not some window. it is a mosaic. this is a… actually, a great portfolio piece.

if you have done hundreds of this style of work, then you could charge less because it would take you less time to do it.
all this means is more profit, not cheaper price because you would do it in less time. biggest profit mistake that even i have done once in a while.

Charge for it. only go below 10 bucks if they present you with somebody else's lower and dumb quote, and if ONLY they are using the same material.

good luck!

~S.H.

 

[Andy D]

So, I know pricing in the public forum is a touchy subject for many,
but being a numbers geek I wanted to elaborate and throw out some pricing theories, just as "food for thought"
without getting into actual numbers.

IMHO most sign shops have horrible pricing structures. Going by square feet is a real bad idea,
and pricing by material cost mark-up plus shop time isn't nearly comprehensive enough.

Having a dynamic in-depth pricing system is by far the best competitive edge you can have,
and by that, I don’t mean low balling.

I have graphed out several sign shops price structure and they, for the most part, all look the same: Too low on the smaller jobs and too high on the
bigger jobs. So over time they get bogged down with little boat name vinyl, small coroplast jobs, birthday banners, etc. and miss out on the bigger money making jobs.

Take a look at a simplified graph below, the red line is how most sign shops prices plot out, the blue line is how most of my prices are structured (for in-house jobs, not subbed out).
So basically, I can make you a 2'x3' banner, but you might as well get a 4'x8' because they will be priced the same. Or, you can get a couple 18" x 24" coro signs, but you might as well
get a whole sheet because that's what you're paying for.

The flip side is I quote these type of large print/vinyl jobs a couple times a month, and by tweaking the job and accurate pricing, we almost always beat out the other sign shops.
By tweaking, I mean: every job has snags that makes it much more difficult and expensive, your customer might insist on those snags because their job is to try and get what they want and to get it for
a great price. Your job is to find the issues and try to work with your customer to simplify the project & show them if they were willing to compromise they could save a lot of money.

So, it’s 4’ x 12’ panels and 2,500 square feet total, that would be 52 panels = 5 rolls.
Not knowing the design, how high/difficult the install is or how much time you have been given to complete, but assuming everything is pretty straight forward,
your price of $10.50 per square foot = $26,250 is way too high & I doubt you would get the job.

 

[CanuckSigns]

care to share where you would be for the job? you can PM me if you like

Keep in mind I'm in Canada and my material costs are around 30% higher than yours, along with my labour costs.

 

[Andy D]

I would be happy to, PM me your cost per roll, roughly how many table hours it would take
two guys to weed, tape, prep, and install (not plot time).
Also, the amount of time you have to complete will affect the price a good bit, meaning, can you work it
in between your day to day stuff, or is going to be one of those toxic customer turd bombs that stresses everyone out
and adds to OT.

 

[CanuckSigns]

PM Sent

why would you not include plot time? every manufacturing business includes machines time in their cost.

 

[Andy D]

Plotters are, comparably speaking, very inexpensive, have a long lifespan, and require very little maintenance.
We have three large plotter, but almost never have more than two running at any given time, so it's a none issue for us.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Just wanted to give everyone an update. We did not get the job, there were 3 companies bidding, we were in the middle price wise and there was very little difference between us and the highest bidder.

However the low bid was less than 50% of our bid! So they are installing 2500 sq/ft of very intricately cut 3M electrocut cast vinyl on glass for under $5 sq/ft, unbelievable.

It's stuff like this that ticks me off, if someone is getting 3 quotes and one of them is drastically lower than the others, wouldn't that be a red flag right there? would you hire a plumber who charges 50% less than the going rate?

/end rant

 

[player]

Just wanted to give everyone an update. We did not get the job, there were 3 companies bidding, we were in the middle price wise and there was very little difference between us and the highest bidder.

However the low bid was less than 50% of our bid! So they are installing 2500 sq/ft of very intricately cut 3M electrocut cast vinyl on glass for under $5 sq/ft, unbelievable.

It's stuff like this that ticks me off, if someone is getting 3 quotes and one of them is drastically lower than the others, wouldn't that be a red flag right there? would you hire a plumber who charges 50% less than the going rate?

/end rant

That's OK... I was asked last week to quote on thousands of sq.ft. of 3M frosted vinyl (they supply) on a ton of windows indoors, and some really big, odd shaped windows 20 feet in the air. They said I can do it all off a ladder, no scaffold, and they don't like to pay more than $1.75 sq.ft.

I never got back to them...

 

[visual800]

welcome to 2015! where low price is KING! This is why your quote a brick a brick monument and ride by one day and see a 4x8MDO on posts lol

 

[Gino]

Regardless of how inexpensive a plotter is....you still need to aaccount for that time. If we has a job that was going to take 4 days to cut.... you'd not count it in ?? That seems very odd.

One of our customers decided to keep us honest, by bidding out a job, unexpectedly. They went to I believe 6 different companies. 2 were much higher than us, one was 1/2 our price and the other 2 were all within $500 of each other, with us being the highest of the 3. They completely ignored the cheapie for obvious reasons and the top 2 also for obvious reasons, but they said they'd stay with us, since a few hundred dollars isn't worth taking a chance on. These jobs go for around $68,000 a pop.

Now, just yesterday, I got an email from a woman asking me to call her to discuss her sign needs. She explained who her old sign supplier was and I knew instantly what was happening. Her old shop announced they were having a price increase, come January 1st and would start charging delivery for items under $250. I told her we've gotten a few new customers from their recent strategy and would be happy to quote her. I asked if she would supply me with all the sizes and designs they need/use and to avoid spinning wheels uneccesarrily, to include her pricing for some recent invoices. Sure thing, she said. We're more interested in saving a buck, than having well made signs. Guess what...... it's a real estate company.


There seems to be reasoning for changing or going with a particular company for varying reasons. It's almost impossible to know what you are dealing with unless you go in asking point blank, what's their goal.

 

[player]

I agree not including cutting is bad form. It is an important part of the job. You will get lots of build and install jobs if you don't charge for the install.