• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

short to medium runs label printer and finisher with laminate

ikarasu

Active Member
We've played with it a lot... Mainly out of curiosity / fun. Anyone who wants roll labels we outsource them, it was just one customer who wanted long lasting labels that were the exact same Color as the other decals we do for them, so we didn't want to outsource it.

If you wind it really tight and put a few layers of masking tape / premask on the cut mark it'll cut pretty smooth using a Fine tooth saw blade.

Over here grimco and a few other suppliers will slit down a roll for us for $5 per cut..... So long as it's vinyl we've bought from them they don't mind. Of course with no guarantees that they won't mess it up. They've always cut it good though, so it hasn't been an issue.

We've had good results making our own roll slitter too. You get a huge Olfa knife... Not the regular snap ones but the heavy duty snap ones that are twice as thick so there's no wobble. You put the roll you want slit on your laminator and rig up a system that will hold the knife in the same position but can be lowered.. Kind of like a guillotine cutter. This was the slowest method but it's the same principle as professional roll slitter and gave just as good of a result. I'll see if I can find pictures of the system we used.... We got lazy and just send it out for $5 a cut now, or let it be a little rough and chopsaw it if we're in a rush. Not many people want roll labels anymore, it was all from one customer who switched to singles, so now we just use our sheer to cut thousands at a time.

Had we bought a 50k system to do roll stock it'd be sitting in the corner useless now.

For the most part using a good chop saw and a non worn down blade works good. We just cut down some 48" rolls of 3M HI reflective for 1300 ft of 12.5" rolls for extruded signs for a rush job that we couldn't wait on a 3M shipment for.. All the edges were crisp and straight. Think we ended up cutting 3 rolls into 4 different sections, so 12 cuts and all came out perfect. It's thicker and easier to cut than cast vinyl, but both seem to cut pretty good... The key seems to be keeping the roll really tight and using a few layers of tape on your cut mark, then the tape gets chewed up and not the material your cutting down.
 

StickerBee

New Member
Buy a latex printer, a graphtec and a laminator. Roughly 20k investment. Print the stickers all in a line on 30" media....graphtec the cut it, and the. Use a chopsaw to cut it into its own roll. We've done runs this way. If a customer wants 5000 4" stickers... Well print them in 7 rolls (30" media / 4" stickers plus crops) so 715-750 decals per roll. Laminate them.... Graphtec them... Reroll the media onto a core and use the cut lines to cut the media with a table saw..

Then you have a bigger printer and more options for business.

Label printers arent bad... I'd like one. But I don't see the money in them. And while.its.more.conveneint to have one... There's nothing it can do that a latex can't.

Most are also aqueous... So the labels don't last too long compared to latex or solvent printing.


If your Intent on getting a big new machine, ask for a guaranteed minimum order in writing. The you can get a real roi date. It's never good to rely on one customer, let alone buy a machine based on a friend's word. He may mean well, but let's face it... If he knew it was a guaranteed proffit, he'd become the wholesaler himself rather than ask you to be one. And if he's a good friend, you risk losing that relationship when in three months you start asking him where all these guaranteed orders are, that you need to pay off your loan to purchase the printer.

8/10 small businesses fail. Mostly.because people over e tend themselves and try to dip their toes into everything and chew off more than. They can handle. It may seem like a good idea... And while I hope it works out for you, odds aren't in your favor.

None of us are your competitors... We're all in different areas, we're not trying to screw you over to get the business your after. Most people here have been in the business for 10-20 years. I've o ly been for about 4... But I've seen so many sign shops fail in my small time, because everyone raced to the bottom or.invested too much without having enough customers.

While people.here may be snarky... They're just using their experience to help you.

Thank you and totally get it! Sometimes I put my self in a mess for being impulsive. And this group is making me decide the smart way. Im still debating of going into the planned machine or go get a nice wide format printer cutter. My only concern of why im getting a label printer because of their low cost print. If the cost of ink for 4 by 2 inches sticker is 2 cents in label printer does it have the same cost with solvent or latex printer?
 

StickerBee

New Member
We've played with it a lot... Mainly out of curiosity / fun. Anyone who wants roll labels we outsource them, it was just one customer who wanted long lasting labels that were the exact same Color as the other decals we do for them, so we didn't want to outsource it.

If you wind it really tight and put a few layers of masking tape / premask on the cut mark it'll cut pretty smooth using a Fine tooth saw blade.

Over here grimco and a few other suppliers will slit down a roll for us for $5 per cut..... So long as it's vinyl we've bought from them they don't mind. Of course with no guarantees that they won't mess it up. They've always cut it good though, so it hasn't been an issue.

We've had good results making our own roll slitter too. You get a huge Olfa knife... Not the regular snap ones but the heavy duty snap ones that are twice as thick so there's no wobble. You put the roll you want slit on your laminator and rig up a system that will hold the knife in the same position but can be lowered.. Kind of like a guillotine cutter. This was the slowest method but it's the same principle as professional roll slitter and gave just as good of a result. I'll see if I can find pictures of the system we used.... We got lazy and just send it out for $5 a cut now, or let it be a little rough and chopsaw it if we're in a rush. Not many people want roll labels anymore, it was all from one customer who switched to singles, so now we just use our sheer to cut thousands at a time.

Had we bought a 50k system to do roll stock it'd be sitting in the corner useless now.

For the most part using a good chop saw and a non worn down blade works good. We just cut down some 48" rolls of 3M HI reflective for 1300 ft of 12.5" rolls for extruded signs for a rush job that we couldn't wait on a 3M shipment for.. All the edges were crisp and straight. Think we ended up cutting 3 rolls into 4 different sections, so 12 cuts and all came out perfect. It's thicker and easier to cut than cast vinyl, but both seem to cut pretty good... The key seems to be keeping the roll really tight and using a few layers of tape on your cut mark, then the tape gets chewed up and not the material your cutting down.
Thank you so much! This is getting more ideas about getting a wide format printer. My market Im trying to capture not just stickers but also labels in pharma and food and Id like to be the Sticker Mule in the East Coast. :)
 
Last edited:

ikarasu

Active Member
You can fit 18 decals per sqft at 4x2.

A sqft is about 30-40(max) cents per sqft... That's factoring in ink, printhead and maintenance cart costs. So roughly 1.6-2 cents maximum for a 4x2 sticker. All costs (except media and electricity) factored In.

I bet your label printer is more than 2 cents also... There's other stuff to factor in besides ink.

Label printer is probably faster time wise when you consider cutting Decals out, laminating and rolling / cutting them into rolls... But if your like me, you just hit print and go watch TV while everything prints.

You get a much wider media selection.... Since you're buying 650 sqft at a time its cheaper than sticker roll media... And of course it's more common so it's easier to get the media.

I'm sure there's a place for roll printers. But with how cheap cmyk printers are... And how easy it is to print...a wide format is much more versatile. We used to use an edge fx to do all our decals... Now we don't bother.

Take your 4 x2 as an example. 18 decals a sqft.. That's 11,700 decals per roll. You can print a roll in less than 2 hours on decent quality. Longer to laminate and cut and weed decals..... But still not bad. 20 mins to laminate... Few hours to cut.... Less than a day for 12,000 decals.

We do 140,000 decals every four months. Different sizes most 1x3 or 2x4... But it's about 6 full 54" rolls. Between printing and laminating and. Cutting it takes us about 4 days for one person to do. For a $40,000 order that's not bad. Even at our quantities we don't want to goto a label printer.... It'll sit idle for 2-3 months at a time, the heads will clog.... It's just another machine to break down and take care of... Rule of thumb is if you won't be using it every day or every other day it's not time to buy a machine yet.

Their machines are likely closer to a million than to 50,000 btw. Itd be nice to have machines like there's!

 

ikarasu

Active Member
Thank you so much! This is getting more ideas about getting a wide format printer. My market Im trying to capture not just stickers but also labels in pharma and food and Id like to be the Sticker Mule in the East Coast. :)

You need special labels for food and pharma and anything that comes into contact with digestible stuff btw. You can't just use any old vinyl or printing technology. We do lots of decals for an electrical company. It has to be both csa (Canadian) and UL (USA) certified. Finding a wide format roll that fit both specs was near impossible... 3M makes a roll but only sells it in lengths of 600 ft at a time.. Much too heavy for a wide format printer. and one other brand does also.

I don't know the regulations on food labels... I doubt solvent printers are allowed, latex should be, but who knows. But every industry seems to have their own specs and requirements labels must meet. More stuff for you to research if you want to pursue those avenues!
 

StickerBee

New Member
You need special labels for food and pharma and anything that comes into contact with digestible stuff btw. You can't just use any old vinyl or printing technology. We do lots of decals for an electrical company. It has to be both csa (Canadian) and UL (USA) certified. Finding a wide format roll that fit both specs was near impossible... 3M makes a roll but only sells it in lengths of 600 ft at a time.. Much too heavy for a wide format printer. and one other brand does also.

I don't know the regulations on food labels... I doubt solvent printers are allowed, latex should be, but who knows. But every industry seems to have their own specs and requirements labels must meet. More stuff for you to research if you want to pursue those avenues!
If you have $50000 budget to acquire an equipment, what will you get?
 

ikarasu

Active Member
I'd purchase a Latex 560 (20ish k) A Seal laminator, and a summa with roll to roll cut option... then save the other 15-25K for maintenance / supplies for when the machine breaks! I'm sure you know, but getting a tech out isnt cheap. $100 per hour of travel.. $150 an hour to diagnose... Then he has to come back, you pay the $100 per hour travel again... Then end up spending 1-2K for a tiny shop vac, because HP uses obscure parts.
 

mark galoob

New Member
im confused...it seems like you said this guy already does 7-8k in decals every month...? and the profit margin is about 15%...im guessing from china. so customer is paying .95 cents per decal now, cost is .80 now (from china), but you can do them for net .50 something is not adding up here. id like to know the size of these decals and are they laminated...
 

StickerBee

New Member
im confused...it seems like you said this guy already does 7-8k in decals every month...? and the profit margin is about 15%...im guessing from china. so customer is paying .95 cents per decal now, cost is .80 now (from china), but you can do them for net .50 something is not adding up here. id like to know the size of these decals and are they laminated...
if you will be the one to produce it yourself, the cost of ink for 4 by 2 stickers is less than a cent. factor the labor, laminate, wear and tear of the machine it will be roughly 10 cents. this is by using the label press with finisher and laminate.
 

StickerBee

New Member
I'd purchase a Latex 560 (20ish k) A Seal laminator, and a summa with roll to roll cut option... then save the other 15-25K for maintenance / supplies for when the machine breaks! I'm sure you know, but getting a tech out isnt cheap. $100 per hour of travel.. $150 an hour to diagnose... Then he has to come back, you pay the $100 per hour travel again... Then end up spending 1-2K for a tiny shop vac, because HP uses obscure parts.
I love the idea. Thank you! the reason I dont want to invest in the wide format printer as I dont want to deal with wide format printing. My friend is currently doing this and I dont want to compete with him. Im very much interested with labeler as Im one man shop, small foot print in my tiny office, I can deal with labels in the area.
 

StickerBee

New Member
I'd purchase a Latex 560 (20ish k) A Seal laminator, and a summa with roll to roll cut option... then save the other 15-25K for maintenance / supplies for when the machine breaks! I'm sure you know, but getting a tech out isnt cheap. $100 per hour of travel.. $150 an hour to diagnose... Then he has to come back, you pay the $100 per hour travel again... Then end up spending 1-2K for a tiny shop vac, because HP uses obscure parts.
I am gearing towards your suggestions now. Now I might need a cutter that will cut out the vinyl out, like individually cut out stickers. What can you recommend?
 
Last edited:

StickerBee

New Member
Size is 14 by 5.5 inches. How much would this usually cost?
 

Attachments

  • 2020.jpg
    2020.jpg
    82.4 KB · Views: 223

ikarasu

Active Member
Summa is more expensive, but it can do roll to roll. If you plan on doing a ton of decals it's a big time saver. Ive only seen videos... But people swear by then.

Graphtec is also good... We use it to cut thousands of decals out a day. Only thing I don't like about it is roll to roll... I hear summa got a better sensor system also.
 
Top