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So. Much. Aerial.

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tulsagraphics

New Member
I'm getting calls for aerial jobs every. single. day. (local and subcontract work from out of state shops) It's great -- the money is good,. no complaints there -- but I found a new speed bump. A lot of these jobs are on new buildings (or tenants needing signs in places where there are no existing hookups)

For the most part I've simply been installing signs and leaving the drops for a local electrician to deal with. However, for some of these installs, it means I'm having to make a 2nd trip (an hour away) just to get photos to prove the installation was entirely completed. (again, no issues with getting paid so far)

I've seen quite a few companies installing illuminated signs (e.g. subcontract work) and I know damn well those 20 something "sign mavericks" aren't electricians, yet they leave the job site with a fully powered sign. So how does that work? Are we allowed to tie into existing connections, but just not run wire all the way to the breaker box? Or is there a little bit of a grey area we can navigate without too much hassle?
 
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unclebun

Active Member
Around here the city inspector is OK with us attaching to an existing hookup but if there isn't one, a licensed electrician is required to run the wire from the panel to the sign in order to get the permit.
 
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tulsagraphics

New Member
Bobby H said:
Aerial? Whew, for a second I thought you meant Arial.
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I was tempted to start the post with this, but after an 18 hour day I just wanted to post and go to bed. lol

arial-reg-2.png
 
Texas_Signmaker

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I do as pro sign does, light it up from a drop cable.

Standard scope of work for most every sign company is you can connect to an existing jbox labeled "sign" if there is access and within 6' of sign, or else leave a 6' mc whip hanging out. Some states an electrician has to do it but I don't think that's required in Oklahoma. I'm licensed in Lawton and OKC and they don't require it.
 
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tulsagraphics

New Member
Texas_Signmaker said:
I do as pro sign does, light it up from a drop cable.

Standard scope of work for most every sign company is you can connect to an existing jbox labeled "sign" if there is access and within 6' of sign, or else leave a 6' mc whip hanging out. Some states an electrician has to do it but I don't think that's required in Oklahoma. I'm licensed in Lawton and OKC and they don't require it.
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Nice. Thanks Texas_Signmaker !
 
AndersHerp

AndersHerp

Something, something Dark Side
Unless the city says something about connecting to power during the permitting process, we will connect into a power source within 6ft of the sign. Other than that, we tell customers they will have to get an electrician to run power out to the sign. If that is the case, we test light with an extension cord from our trucks for pictures, to show that the sign was set up to and does illuminate before we leave.
 
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JBurton

JBurton

Signtologist
We get 20 whole feet, unless you're a contractor asking, then I need a whip right there. Get a dedicated pigtail, slap some wago connectors on it, and don't let anybody else touch it!
 
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tulsagraphics

New Member
When you're bidding on install jobs (e.g. for an out-of-state sign shop), is there a half decent rule of thumb on how to bid it? Ya know -- fair pricing and all. For example, a job I'm bidding now (the sign company is about 4 hours away). Let's call the client Papa Johns. You have a new location an hour away with (4) 6' x 3' channel letters w/ raceways. Easily done by 1 person in a day. (ya know, baby steps and all -- employees come later after we get some XP -- and $$$$ -- under our belt).

Side note: I know what "I" recently paid for an out of state company who just happened to be in town on another install, and I helped them fill out the day a bit with a 1.5 hour job for installing 2 signs /w raceways (120" x 18" and 96" x 12", stacked) -- new install, only drops -- and it was $800 (supposedly they would charge an end user $1.2k, so that's what I billed the client -- given the rush job nature of it and lack of timely options by in-state shops -- the client and I were fine with the cost). Based on that -- and that alone -- should I simply be charging, for example, $500-600 per raceway + trip costs? (for the smaller jobs that don't require a crane, of course -- and I'm sure it will vary based on the type of surface said signs will be installed on) Part of me thinks it's high, but the other part of me thinks: this is fair market value and we have high overhead / risk to consider as well.
 
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JBurton

JBurton

Signtologist
tulsagraphics said:
1.5 hour job for installing 2 signs /w raceways (120" x 18" and 96" x 12", stacked) -- new install, only drops -- and it was $800
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Oye. Not saying it was a bad deal, especially if you just caught them and got it installed in one day but that's like $550/hr. Typically we would quote an hourly rate, and likely a minimum, which this may have been what the installer's manager figured, 200/hr for a truck, minimum of 4 hours. We run two men and a truck at 150/hr.
Figure a rate for yourself and a lift, guess how long it will take, add an hour or more to pad/have some room to haggle, and shoot the price right off. If you constantly get instant approvals, consider going up a bit on your pricing. Drive time pays the same as install time.
tulsagraphics said:
For example, a job I'm bidding now (the sign company is about 4 hours away). Let's call the client Papa Johns. You have a new location an hour away with (4) 6' x 3' channel letters w/ raceways. Easily done by 1 person in a day. (ya know, baby steps and all -- employees come later after we get some XP -- and $$$$ -- under our belt).
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So consider what it would take for them, just to give yourself some perspective on what you would pay to do the same thing. 4 hours away means 8 hours round trip. Gas, lodging, meals, just for a singular day job. So right there is 800-1200 in out of town costs just to have the pleasure of doing the job with your own hands. Then figure all the extras leading up to the job, like catching the contractor, surveying jobsite, checking on building status, permits, rechecking the jobsite, etc. Now add on 8 hours and a lift... All in all, this scenario, I'd figure around... something like $2,400.
All that said and done, if they can't tell me beans about the signage, simple stuff like how do I get in the sign, then I throw in some sort of ignorance bump, PITA fee, or assh*le tax, here it'd be around $500.
 
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tulsagraphics

New Member
JBurton said:
Oye. Not saying it was a bad deal, especially if you just caught them and got it installed in one day but that's like $550/hr.
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Fair point. The client was okay with the cost because of their deadline (they moved locations in the middle of the week). All other shops were at least 2 to 3 weeks out (short of paying rush fees). I felt it was a bit expensive, but the reason "I" was okay with it is because bending over backwards to get their old sign down / moved to location (I took care of all that, for an additional fee), and reinstalled by this other shop -- all within 48 hours -- very likely protected the following $12k sale for a couple of very large pan faces that we're replacing in a few months.

JBurton said:
Typically we would quote an hourly rate, and likely a minimum, which this may have been what the installer's manager figured, 200/hr for a truck, minimum of 4 hours. We run two men and a truck at 150/hr.
Figure a rate for yourself and a lift, guess how long it will take, add an hour or more to pad/have some room to haggle, and shoot the price right off. If you constantly get instant approvals, consider going up a bit on your pricing. Drive time pays the same as install time.

So consider what it would take for them, just to give yourself some perspective on what you would pay to do the same thing. 4 hours away means 8 hours round trip. Gas, lodging, meals, just for a singular day job. So right there is 800-1200 in out of town costs just to have the pleasure of doing the job with your own hands. Then figure all the extras leading up to the job, like catching the contractor, surveying jobsite, checking on building status, permits, rechecking the jobsite, etc. Now add on 8 hours and a lift... All in all, this scenario, I'd figure around... something like $2,400.
All that said and done, if they can't tell me beans about the signage, simple stuff like how do I get in the sign, then I throw in some sort of ignorance bump, PITA fee, or assh*le tax, here it'd be around $500.
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All good points here. Thank you!
 
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