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the ai vector issue

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
The only government bailout thing I was in agreement with was the government stepping in back in the late 2000's with America's housing industry bubble causing a global financial crisis. The American government was right to step in during that situation because the banking system was on the verge of collapse. That would have been far worse than "stupid" investors getting theirs for making bad investment choices. Failure of banks would have meant complete loss of financial liquidity. The crisis would have affected far more than Wall Street investors. The contagion would have spilled out onto Main Street, disrupting operations of regular businesses both large and small. It would have been Great Depression 2.0. The US government ultimately profited off the TARP program, but it took years to do so.

I don't see any good reason for the government to throw a life preserver to tech companies betting stupidly large on all this AI crap. They're throwing good money after bad on dumb-AI. I'm seeing more cases where the tech is being exposed as nothing more than an over-embellished search engine. The AI tech is trained on all sorts of existing data and imagery and merely tries to predict what to do next. The AI tech doesn't have any actual understanding of just what it is doing. It doesn't understand context. That's why so much of the stuff it generates is slop. AI can be pretty good at automating clearly defined, repetitive tasks. The tech falls apart when it has to make abstract judgment calls. These limitations aren't stopping the big tech companies from pushing through new data center builds, even when local city governments are crying foul about it. They're trying to do end runs around the rules and regulations. When individuals see their home electricity bills and water bills spike the only thing the tech companies can do is spout some boilerplate bullshit on how the home owners can conserve water and electricity. Meanwhile the top purpose of these data centers for eliminating human-occupied, human-paid jobs. The hypocrisy is pretty outrageous.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
The only government bailout thing I was in agreement with was the government stepping in back in the late 2000's with America's housing industry bubble causing a global financial crisis. The American government was right to step in during that situation because the banking system was on the verge of collapse. That would have been far worse than "stupid" investors getting theirs for making bad investment choices. Failure of banks would have meant complete loss of financial liquidity. The crisis would have affected far more than Wall Street investors. The contagion would have spilled out onto Main Street, disrupting operations of regular businesses both large and small. It would have been Great Depression 2.0. The US government ultimately profited off the TARP program, but it took years to do so.

What don't agree with the S&L bailout (how they handled the accounting firms and what we ended up with was no bueno, but that is another story)? They also got some help during the 2020 fiasco. And in mid aughts, those banks had the glorious NINJA program, yea, like that wasn't going to cause issues (and I would say that was the progenitor of a good portion, if not all, of the issues that made the "need" for their bailout that time) and that was loaners being stupid at a large scale.

It is actually becoming more and more frequent of a thing and that should be a concern with everyone. Bank bailouts have been a thing going back quite a ways.

As far as the profitability of the TARP program (in all areas of the program), that's up for debate.

I don't see any good reason for the government to throw a life preserver to tech companies betting stupidly large on all this AI crap. They're throwing good money after bad on dumb-AI. I'm seeing more cases where the tech is being exposed as nothing more than an over-embellished search engine. The AI tech is trained on all sorts of existing data and imagery and merely tries to predict what to do next. The AI tech doesn't have any actual understanding of just what it is doing. It doesn't understand context. That's why so much of the stuff it generates is slop. AI can be pretty good at automating clearly defined, repetitive tasks. The tech falls apart when it has to make abstract judgment calls. These limitations aren't stopping the big tech companies from pushing through new data center builds, even when local city governments are crying foul about it. They're trying to do end runs around the rules and regulations. When individuals see their home electricity bills and water bills spike the only thing the tech companies can do is spout some boilerplate bullshit on how the home owners can conserve water and electricity. Meanwhile the top purpose of these data centers for eliminating human-occupied, human-paid jobs. The hypocrisy is pretty outrageous.
Well, the government is also stirring up the hype, so I imagine that there is something going on in some backroom deal somewhere. Just pure speculation on my part. Wouldn't be the first time that a government agency wasted money on tech. Probably go further back to the 50-60s for what was understood as "AI" back at that time. Although, I think they really peaked with their hype in 2022 and beyond. So I don't think this will be any different. At some point, the well has to go dry (and hopefully before it actually does) for these bailouts.

At some point, the band-aide is going to have to be ripped off, not slowly, but quickly.
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
Yeah, American government officials, both elected and appointed, have been talking up the AI race as an interest of national security.

One funny thing is Chinese firms are developing Large Language Models that operate more efficiently than the American ones -they don't require nearly as much computing horsepower (as well as electricity and water cooling) to run. In the past couple or so weeks I've heard some business experts say China could do a real number on companies like OpenAI by open-sourcing their LLMs.
 

truckgraphics

New Member
AI is an amazing tool and I have no doubt that if you give it the right instructions and ask of it the right questions, it can give you the vector art you need.
Ok, I haven't tried a vector yet, but in the recent process of designing a book cover - and book - have been scratching the surface with Co-Pilot. (I have a sign shop. This is related, but admittedly, is not a sign project.)
Anyway, I had a conversation with the thing, gave it photographs as guides - some of which it cleaned up and removed backgrounds better than any of my digital tools - and came up with some incredible original art for my project.
BTW, if you are interested, I used public domain art as the basis for my original art.
If I can create a few simple graphics out of the machine with a human like conversation, imagine what this thing can help you build. It's incredible, really, really scary and isn't going away unless we get into Terminator style war with it, which is a possibility.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
One funny thing is Chinese firms are developing Large Language Models that operate more efficiently than the American ones -they don't require nearly as much computing horsepower (as well as electricity and water cooling) to run. In the past couple or so weeks I've heard some business experts say China could do a real number on companies like OpenAI by open-sourcing their LLMs.
China has already OSS a good portion of LLMs out there that they deal with. Unfortunately, some of that could also be hype to fuel the hype for "nation security" as well. At this point, and I'm sure there are better versions that us plebs aren't seeing at this time, all of this "AI" is lackluster.

AI is an amazing tool and I have no doubt that if you give it the right instructions and ask of it the right questions, it can give you the vector art you need.
It will have to become even more so, given the reading/writing issues that kids have nowadays (not all, but it certainly "reads" (oh the irony) as a fairly significant problem), so the prompts are probably going to be lacking as we get further into the generation of users. And with "AI", we are looking at a ouroboros type of situation.
Ok, I haven't tried a vector yet, but in the recent process of designing a book cover - and book - have been scratching the surface with Co-Pilot. (I have a sign shop. This is related, but admittedly, is not a sign project.)

Be aware, at least here stateside, that if you are looking for any copyright protection, it has to be significantly changed (what denotes that will probably be able for debate for awhile). So that book cover may not be protected, content of the book may, but that cover may not.
Anyway, I had a conversation with the thing, gave it photographs as guides - some of which it cleaned up and removed backgrounds better than any of my digital tools - and came up with some incredible original art for my project.
BTW, if you are interested, I used public domain art as the basis for my original art.
The LLM part of Co-Pilot (since you specifically mentioned it earlier, I assume you are using it for this project) is closed source, really no way to actually vet if what it was trained on was public domain or not. I think with Co-Pilot, it has been mainly with github code (public v. private repos etc, but even with public repos, may not what GPL3 code in what is supposed to be one's closed source product). However, that concern is still valid for other things that it may spit out as well.

I do think, I could be wrong, that for paid users of Co-Pilot that MS does have some legal protection for their users, but only for the paid users. So if using the free version, no bueno for you.



In general, most of my concern is with losing the knowledge when people offload a workload to something like this. When it comes to creativity and how we as people handle that learning and maintaining process, that knowledge will be lost by people that offload a bit of that. Over time, won't be able to to do it easily without relying on that same crutch. I also believe that quantity != quality and as we are seeing a lot of "stuff" out there of dubious quality. As to the Skynet stuff, as far as what is publicly facing the general plebs, not there yet.
 

JBurton

Signtologist
I seem to recall the conversation that We couldn't ask ai to create a vector image, but the originator of the ai file could ask...?
Wasn't this canva? I mean to say, if your client sent a file from canva as a jpeg, they could instead send you a link and you could generate a pdf from a paid canva account.
 
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Boudica

I'm here for Educational Purposes
Yep Vectorizer.ai is very good...has good color grouping options you can play with and it makes better vectors than any "autotrace" ive ever seen before...not just a bunch of nodes and 3000 colors, it gives fairly nice well formed vectors if you give it half decent artwork...
Also super surprised by Topaz Gigapixel AI for making high res photos out of crap...it doesnt just add resolution it actually adds detail back in...if you let it get too creative it will even add shit that was never there...
I use it all the time to clean up crappy logos for sponsor banners. Works like a charm in seconds, and I don't have to print sponsor banners and display boards etc with crappy logos. The are usually coming from some office manager who clearly just grabbed the logo from their website. Or whatever they use for powerpoint presentations.
 
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Boudica

I'm here for Educational Purposes
Wasn't this canva? I mean to say, if your client sent a file from canva as a jpeg, they could instead send you a link and you could generate a pdf from a paid canva account.
That might be the one she's thinking of. Maybe the one Gnubler started...

 
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