The next generation of adobe users now work among us

[Johnny Best]

I looked for my RAL color chart but can't seem to find it, been awhile since I needed it. It's a German thing like PMS. That PMS419 is a real dark gray, I use that to get different grays by turning down the transparency in Illustrator.

 

[DChorbowski]

Pantone buys Canva, and only licences it to their new aquisition, and their fledgling rip software

who hurt you?

 

[bteifeld]

The main alternative to Pantone is to simply ask people to measure the color they want
and supply the L*a*b* measurement to their print provider. ASE files consisting of names
and spot color L*a*b* measurements can also be compiled and used as a communication
between print customers and print providers.

Some info that may help in understanding more about this:

Brand colors: we need to do better… and, yes we can! - Project BBCG

Most, if not all, brand color guides are flawed. We need to better. Project BBCG shows you the way, using tools you already have.

www.projectbbcg.guide

 

[White Haus]

I work with a company that is based in France. This is what they send me...I never heard of RAL colors in my life so I matched it up to the oracal color 75 that doesn't exist in my swatch book.


View attachment 170895

Architects like to spec RAL color codes too.... so much that we bought a swatch book:

https://www.amazon.com/RAL-K7-Colour-fan-deck/dp/B000TZFQXC/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.yK2ZUmz2MbkYd365CQ_FJACfXwrHhzRGS1e-m11i-IpPURWfmww5aRKcRXuxRlhmYNjz9RIIn9gEb5dlQeo9Wx18F64f4ZQMTzK93QumnidErI5_lZabi7cterRfI5L2OIAwVoVHPsKQYrdTdNxL7AcP0pk0WYzafZ0QE0HUL2lUxO88o0zaXN1msIZDsBHfpMXcZIEaAODmxLF3qKYBucKAkVdwsRwz5gTMRrv4F_OAb2hR2jr-YxBPJ-TY4lSoIK3rcLPWY1K9GKa69wbsUcXIFWZAOZIflnzNaYDVvXE.5tEhxtQdOEsCE8DJRdS3-BCHkZ06bN1jMCbvCOcCB10&dib_tag=se&keywords=ral+color+chart&qid=1713366270&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

[jochwat]

I work with a company that is based in France. This is what they send me...I never heard of RAL colors in my life so I matched it up to the oracal color 75 that doesn't exist in my swatch book.

I had some RAL colors to wrangle a while back, and I saved this in my browser bookmarks, so it must have been helpful? I guess?

https://hextoral.com/ral-to-pantone-conversion/

 

[Evan Gillette]

Canva bought out Affinity, and "pledged" to pour more resources into dev and distributing. Free licenses to teachers and students. They are gunning for Adobe and I don't see the competition as a bad thing. Canva used to be a curse word coming from customers but I have been surprised lately. A couple of months ago we got full vector artwork exported from a customers free canva account as a .pdf, it was better than about half the artwork we get from "degreed" designers.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Free licenses to teachers and students.

Kinda reminds me of another profession that likes to get lifetime customers by starting young. This has lead to a couple of other issues as well, which also has made users more susceptible of having to stay with the software that they learned long ago, because they really know the software more (or atleast more comfortable, typically those go hand in hand) and don't want to switch or feel like they can't.

They are gunning for Adobe and I don't see the competition as a bad thing. Canva used to be a curse word coming from customers but I have been surprised lately. A couple of months ago we got full vector artwork exported from a customers free canva account as a .pdf, it was better than about half the artwork we get from "degreed" designers.

Here is the thing, as more and more people use alternatives, especially those that actually know what they are doing (which in all honesty aren't the initial typical customers of those alternatives, some are, but I would say the majority are not), quality goes up in a variety of areas as more people use it (not always, but generally speaking). I remember when Unity did their oopsy, that lead to a lot of people using Godot, quality all the way around (dev, stability, tutorials etc) has been improving because of that for Godot.

It's a hard thing though for software that's 30+ yrs old (I think Ai is close to 40, wasn't it 85?).

 

[JBurton]

I really could care less what system we use, as long as you can tell me a particular color name/number, that both you and I can reference in our own charts at our own locations.
*also as long as it has more values than CMYK, designing and providing colors in only cmyk is plain ignorance on the designer's behalf.

Oh, and update to the story, we mixed sample paint, and printed sample swatches based on those two sets of cmyk values and the pms values out of corel, customer didn't like anything, wants to see other colors...

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I really could care less what system we use, as long as you can tell me a particular color name/number, that both you and I can reference in our own charts at our own locations.
*also as long as it has more values than CMYK, designing and providing colors in only cmyk is plain ignorance on the designer's behalf.

Oh, and update to the story, we mixed sample paint, and printed sample swatches based on those two sets of cmyk values and the pms values out of corel, customer didn't like anything, wants to see other colors...

Don't you have a camera with your Matthews setup? I never tried to read a printed swatch with it but we scan paint quite often. Maybe a print is too grainy?

 

[Evan Gillette]

Yep, classic. Had a bigger ad agency spec pantone colors on reception sign a few years ago. Had gemini paint match it to pantone and it was VERY close. Had the customer look at it in person before installing because I knew they wouldn't be happy with it. Of course they said "that's not even close" referring to the color they thought it should be.

 

[Gettin'By]

Funny thing about using standards like PMS. You get what you asked for*, not what you thought you asked for based on your likely uncalibrated computer monitor, or worse, cell phone screen.

*Assuming the producer can hit a color.

 

[Johnny Best]

That is why it is good to purchase a Pantone chart to show the customer the color.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

There are so many different color standards, it's hard to keep up with it and none of them have an exact crossover. We reference RAL quite a bit, I think that is the standard in powder coat. Then there are federal standards which has a code that dictate the sheen as well as the color. Automotive paint codes, LAB, RAL, Pantone then standard colors like safety yellow and safety red which are anything but standard across brands. There are a million shades of white so that can get tricky and to add to that, put clear on the white and it shifts. I guess you will always run into someone who balks at a color match but truth be told, it is not easy and when you start looking at things together from various suppliers, there will be mismatches galore. Even the plastic bumper on your car is a hair different than the steel panels. I know the pros here strive for perfection but it's never a perfect world.

 

[JBurton]

Don't you have a camera with your Matthews setup? I never tried to read a printed swatch with it but we scan paint quite often. Maybe a print is too grainy?

Nope, but I'll inquire, Not that I match a lot of existing stuff, tends to be 'stick to the spec', and even if my stuff comes out significantly different, most customers realize their older products have just faded and they'd rather live with it than replace more than originally planned.
Bigger problem for me typically is trying to match an EFIS wall that is as textured as can be, and even if you do hit it right, it's going to be light as it doesn't have the shadows from the texture shifting the color darker, and even if you hit it right with a darker shade that appears fine from a distance, is that the texture will grab every particle of dirt and progressively get darker and darker.

 

[SignDesignLady]

When a customer wants to have us match a PMS color, we give them the "color matching is not a guarantee but we can get close, due to the nature of the different inks...etc. etc." They are usually good with it. I rarely have someone ask for a PMS match. I usually find a hex to PMS converter somewhere online and use that as a tool to help dial in the colors.

 

[JBurton]

"color matching is not a guarantee but we can get close, due to the nature of the different inks...etc. etc."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling anybody I can guarantee a color, especially coming from CMYK, but having a pms color means we all can aim for the same target, be it the customer looking through my chart, the painter mixing paint, the printer adjusting densities, or the designer sipping coffee and posting inspirational design quotes to facebook.

 

[Stacey K]

I hate color matching. I think my eyes might be going bad...or people are just morons?

That above RAL color I mentioned...I printed it as PMS 419 but it didn't match the paint on the machine located about 24" away from the decal. I printed a bunch of close samples and went there. It looked perfect to me, I thought I was at the wrong machine. I still don't understand how it's not the same. They chose 426 instead and said it was waaaay closer. I just dropped the decals off so see what happens...

A semi stopped yesterday and I matched his teal 100% perfect to a PMS color. He said not a single teal in the PMS book was even close.

I guess color matching isn't my thing.

 

[JBurton]

I guess color matching isn't my thing.

Just print your swatches and tell them to circle or sign the one they like. It wouldn't matter if you had the extra cones with Tetrachromacy, giving you perfect and extended color perception, you'd still be dealing with folks who know less about color than you, but while they are holding the green, their opinion trumps yours. As long as you can pull that signed off sample out of a drawer and slap it on something they are complaining about, you're gold!