Thinking outside the "sign box"

[Edserv]

Can anyone help me with ideas about "thinking outside the box" with current customers? We've diversified into several other areas (digital copies, id badges, fundraising, mailings) that have helped us build a much better residual revenue base.

It seemed to me that once you get a customer, why let them go anywhere else for their printing needs?

And while this has stretched us to learn new skills (as well as to find suppliers or purchase additional equipment,) it seems our customers really appreciate the "one stop shop" idea versus our just being a "sign shop."

I know niche markets can pay huge, but diversifying also seems a new "cutting edge" that you can profit from.

We try to get repeat business as often as possible (with, hopefully the highest price and profit.) But whenever we turn-down a customer ("we don't do that,") we're increasingly aware that when our customer finds the supplier who says "we can do that..." they may end-up with that new supplier for the products and services we supplied prior.

Your ideas are appreciated!

thanks,
Chris
Lets Go Banners

 

[Marlene]

why is this a poll since you aren't really taking a poll on ideas or what ever? what ideas are you looking for? it seems like you get the "one stop" concept so what else are you looking for? does it work? yep. I've done all kinds of things for customers as they call me and the conversation starts off "I'm not sure where to get----and I'm not sure if you can help" I've picked colors for an customer's converence room including the furniture, carpet and walls. I've done napkins, bags, promo items. I've picked landscaping for customers and recommended plants so I would say doing all their printing isn't all that much of a stretch.

 

[signmeup]

Maybe you could offer mail-order tattoos.

 

[SignManiac]

Add rotary or laser engraved, tie dyed burial urns. You don't see those everyday.

 

[signage]

Become a coro plane distributor.

 

[CropMarks]

When we first started our business we had the idea that we would be a "Sign Shop" first and anything else we wanted to get into came after that. Well, as it turned out the printing/copy side of the business has been by far the biggest money maker for us. We finally found a SOLID used copier that we were able to get a service contract on (all the free toner and parts + service we need). We pay a really cheap per click price on both B+W and Color. We also found a great local company to do business with that finds us used machines... Like our SWEET paper cutter (a little over $3000) that is a rock solid workhorse. I would just say look for good quality used equipment to keep your overhead low. With used equipment you have to really be careful.

here is the used supplier we have in town...
http://www.noordyk.com/
Talk to Bill Noordyk - GREAT GUY!

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

yes it can work and work well. i built a very successful business on this philosophy. however i have also seen the otherside of the spectrum where sign shops try to become advertising agencies, design firms, one stop advertising marketing in a box shops when they dont understand the needs of their clients, they dont have the skills to provide a competitive product, they wont hire staff with the skillsets and knowledge that they need and last but not least shops that just don't know where to draw the line in saying 'yes' to client needs and wants..i have seen more than one sign company turned ad agency that a few months down the road they put up a studio with a green screen turning out television commercials that miss the mark because they dont understand the psychology and fundamentals to make that means of advertising work..next thing you know they have a recording studio for radio ads...and when that didnt work they rented out studio time by the hour for bands to record. so for people like this all i can say is "FOCUS" i know at least one signs 101er will appreciate that word in quotes and another successful philosophy.

 

[Marlene]

well, I picked out a pretty bush for the landscaping! burning bush it was called and it turns bright red in the fall. it picked up the color of the thin red line on the sign and looked really pretty. the bare branches are also red...point being if you feel like you can fill a need, do it. if it is totally out of your skill set, don't do it as you will be doing no one any favors.

 

[Gino]

Dan.....
​

:ROFLMAO:
​

 

[CropMarks]

well... yeah... you don't want to get into anything that makes zero sense. But for myself and my 2 partners, we all came from the same shop that specialized in high volume color copies and B&W copies. For us, the switch of focus made sense. We also have all decided that we will only get into things that we will be able to do well.

If someone came in and said "do you make websites?" ---- it's not much of a stretch, BUT I know nothing about web design right now. So, the answer would be NO.

For the next foreseeable future if anyone asks for something like a vehicle wrap.... we would give them Kurt's name and phone number at Speed Media. It's just something that we do not want to get into and we wouldn't do all that well anyway. - maybe after tons of training? who knows, maybe in the far off future.

 

[knifemaker3]

The main thing is to find something that will get perspective clients in your door.

I've had people on here make fun of me and my business because I not only do screenprinting and small sign work, but I also have a hunting and fishing supply retail store in my store front.

Why? Because I knew when I moved the business to town I would need more than just the screenprinting and signs to make it. So, I diversified and opened something this town needed, a place for all the local hunters and fisherman to buy their gear other than wal mart or drive 80 miles to Bass Pro headquarters in Springfield, MO.

Now, what it has offered me in the sign and screenprint end of the business is people coming into my store who otherwise wouldn't have looking for hunting/fishing gear and then they see I also do the signs and screening and say "hey, how much to letter my truck?" or "how much to print some shirts?"

I would have never gotten their business otherwise as it was just impulse buying to begin with.

So far, in 3 months in the new location, if it wouldn't have been for the retail sports part, I wouldn't have been able to keep the lights on. But, I have gotten much more business in the screen and signs by having the other inventory.

So, it's worked well for me to be diversified, even with the strange combination of products.

The key is to find something that will get your prospective clients in. Around here everyone either hunts or fishes, so that has worked well for me.

 

[Gino]

knife...

Please don't think I'm making fun because I know everyone has their views. Anyway no disrespect.... but what do you really want to be known as ??

A general store, the guy that sells fishin' stuff and sells sticky back signs and some other little odds and ends things....

or would you rather be known as......​

The sign shop that sells upscale signs, designs, truck lettering and does all kinds of silk screening ??


I would rather diversify in my field and at something I'm good at and not be known as a place where you can get this or that and a jack of all trades and a master of none. Perhaps bringing people in with hunting and fishing habits works great for you, but unrelated customers seems like you might not be getting the cream of the crop customers for your sign side of the business.

Again, no disrespect. I know certain people are capable of making some of the craziest things happen, but it just seems easier to become stronger in your own filed.... besides, you'll have much less merchandise to inventory.

 

[knifemaker3]

Gino,
a few years ago I would have totally agreed with you. But in this economy in these parts it's not uncommon to see businesses offering off the wall stuff.

Shoot, one of the local pharmacies also carry some hunting and fishing stuff, although it's a little more limited than what I do.

As for the customers.....most of the people around here who would be interested in buying signs or screenprinting are also avid sportsmen and women. The big jobs in the screenprinting end of things are mostly the schools and they job it out to the guys in the big towns with auto presses printing thousands of shirts a day for much less than what a one man operation with a manual press can run.

I'd like nothing better than to be know as the go too guy for signs and garments......market's just that overcrowded and tough around here so I decided to diversify to pay the bills.

I'm not advocating this for everyone, but sometimes you just have to do what you have to......

 

[Gino]

Knife.....

I totally understand. Perhaps a business coach or someone here on the boards could help you become better at the sign industry.

But again, I know exactly what you're talking about. Even in our shop, we stop and change gears sometimes to accommodate certain requests, but we really try to keep it aimed at the sign industry.

Also, around here [our county and state] , having a sign business sometimes won't let you have certain other kinds of goods or inventory in your building. Heck, silk screen inks and certain paints would not be permitted due to their explosive capabilities, let alone the odors sometimes for certain inks... stinking out some customer that might be here for something else. The insurance to keep a shop running is far more stringent and expensive then many other businesses. Hope you're legal in all of those respects. You might wanna make sure with your insurance company that you are fully covered on all levels.

Good Luck....................

 

[jiarby]

We started out 5-6 years ago just as a laser engraving shop. Part of that product mix was ADA & engraved signage.

Then we started taking coro sign & banner jobs. We'd cut vinyl with the laser (OMG!) and job out digital prints.

Then I bought a plotter

and a Mutoh 1604 printer... no more jobbing things out.

We started doing small vehicle graphics (door decals, windows.... not wraps)

Then we added sublimation to supplement the awards/plaques part of the laser business.

Now we are adding low cost silk screened coros (for 50-100pc jobs)

This year we will probably add apparel.

My customers are schools, churches, sports leagues/teams, contractors etc. The people that buy trophies also buy uniforms/t-shirts. They buy signs, banners and decals.

To keep the printer humming we also started doing wholesale printing for local businesses such as sign guys without digital printers, mailbox/shipping places, blueprint places, etc...

Every year my biggest customer changes. 5 years ago we were 95% engraving. Now we are 90% printing (banners, vinyl). I don't even want to do trophy jobs anymore but old customers keep coming back.

What will we be in 5 more years??

Who knows!

 

[Gino]

We started out 5-6 years ago just as a laser engraving shop. Part of that product mix was ADA & engraved signage.

Then we started taking coro sign & banner jobs. We'd cut vinyl with the laser (OMG!) and job out digital prints.

Then I bought a plotter

and a Mutoh 1604 printer... no more jobbing things out.

We started doing small vehicle graphics (door decals, windows.... not wraps)

Then we added sublimation to supplement the awards/plaques part of the laser business.

Now we are adding low cost silk screened coros (for 50-100pc jobs)

This year we will probably add apparel.

My customers are schools, churches, sports leagues/teams, contractors etc. The people that buy trophies also buy uniforms/t-shirts. They buy signs, banners and decals.

To keep the printer humming we also started doing wholesale printing for local businesses such as sign guys without digital printers, mailbox/shipping places, blueprint places, etc...

Every year my biggest customer changes. 5 years ago we were 95% engraving. Now we are 90% printing (banners, vinyl). I don't even want to do trophy jobs anymore but old customers keep coming back.

What will we be in 5 more years??

Who knows!

Great story ji.....

I'll bet that the majority of people with good sound businesses grew much in the same manner you did. A little at a time..... but remain focused. Actually in 5 years, that's a great story. My first 10 to 12 years was tough, but then I didn't have much competition because there were no computers or whatever around. I was competing with big shops that employed 30 and 40 people or more and I had to save my pennies to just make ends meet.

 

[knifemaker3]

Knife.....

I totally understand. Perhaps a business coach or someone here on the boards could help you become better at the sign industry.

But again, I know exactly what you're talking about. Even in our shop, we stop and change gears sometimes to accommodate certain requests, but we really try to keep it aimed at the sign industry.

Also, around here [our county and state] , having a sign business sometimes won't let you have certain other kinds of goods or inventory in your building. Heck, silk screen inks and certain paints would not be permitted due to their explosive capabilities, let alone the odors sometimes for certain inks... stinking out some customer that might be here for something else. The insurance to keep a shop running is far more stringent and expensive then many other businesses. Hope you're legal in all of those respects. You might wanna make sure with your insurance company that you are fully covered on all levels.

Good Luck....................

Gino, thanks for the advice on the insurance. Yes, I'm up to par with what I need at this time. I'm even covered for the gun powder and primers I carry in the reloading section of the store. I am going to have to go talk to the insurance man soon about upgrading some more to the policy to reflect my part time help I started having come in when I need an extra hand.

I need a business coach, mentor, banker with a lot of money, irs agent, and maybe even an act of God! But, until I can afford it, I'll just have to keep plugging along learning by the school of hard knocks. Besides, most of the time I learn better from making mistakes than just someone teaching me how I should do it.

 

[Edserv]

Thanks for all the great response! (sorry about the "polling comment.") I thought I was starting a normal thread.
The only way we've survived and grown in Hawaii (the Big Island) is by offering everything we could for our clients. While this caused havoc in our production area, it kept us "cash-flowing" and in business.
I appreciate the comments about focus and "staying in the sign industry," but in today's economic conditions, you "gotta do what you gotta do" to keep your customers happy.
thanks,
C.

 

[marcsitkin]

While it sounds great on paper to be able to offer a wide range of services to keep a client captive, be certain that you are capable of offering quality across the board. A client who is very happy with some of your offerings can go start shopping elsewhere if they are unhappy with an offering that is not up to snuff. You can loose the whole account.

We've picked up many clients who have bought trade show hardware and graphics from sign shops that didn't perform, were the wrong solution, or just had bad graphics. I'm not saying that there aren't many shops that do a fine job in this area, just that it takes time and experience to develop the knowledge, skills and product lines to satisfy needs.

Take the time to learn about the products and services you want to extend, and make sure that you keep your core business in focus as well.