Thoughts and opinions valued - even bad ones (we'll send a sample too)

[Paul from Enduralox®]

Hi All - Paul here from Australia (hello@enduralox.com if you want to share some thoughts offline),

So we have a product called ENDURALOX® and it is in the market in Australia.
As this forum is full to the brim with experience and knowledge, its a good place to ask for feedback, given we are edging into the North American market (almost by accident).

Customers send their specs and designs, we print it, they buy it.

What is it?
It's essentially anodized 5005 (AlMg1) aluminum panels (prime quality)
The anodizing process is interrupted (when the pores are created and open), it is transported to our facility (oh so carefully) and we direct digital print ANYTHING in ultra high resolution (2800dpi) before completing the anodizing process in our facility.
We then CNC route it to required specs and off it goes to the reseller.

What is it good for?
It is used for interpretive signage, wayfinding signage, mapping, compliance plates, data plates, QR code tags, keyrings, drink coasters, indoor signage, tool tagging, statutory signage, control panels and the list is endless.
Our customers are industrial, signage, architects, specifiers who put it in corporate, hospitality, national parks, hospitals, transport hubs etc

We even made 300 Christmas decorations for a very big luxury brand out of Europe. (Stunning)

Whats its reslience?
It has all the lifespan / durable attributes of anodized and is tough as a bull. UV also high performance.

Specs
44 inches x 84 inches MAX printable area
We print on 0.5mm, 1.0mm, 1.5mm, 2.0mm and 3.0mm
So here are some pictures (best i have for moment)

What do you think?
Do you have questions?
Positive Vibes? Rubbish Vibes?
Isnt this XXXXXX from XXXXX
Seen it all before vibes!!!
Feel free to take me down, boost me up...

If you want a sample, fill lout the form on our website.

 

[VizualVoice]

Am I understanding correctly that you're essentially doing a print in the middle of the anodizing steps (like where traditionally the dye would happen) and then continuing on with the sealing after that? What kind of lifespan are you seeing with your inks (presumably some form of dye-based)?
Pretty interesting idea for sure, and I'm sure surviving your climate there in Aus would tell us if it'll hold up here.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Nice to see other options, but is anything more durable than HPL? That's what I get requests for when federal parks / zoos reach out. How does it compare? And has this method been around long enough to make a fair comparison?

 

[Paul from Enduralox®]

Am I understanding correctly that you're essentially doing a print in the middle of the anodizing steps (like where traditionally the dye would happen) and then continuing on with the sealing after that? What kind of lifespan are you seeing with your inks (presumably some form of dye-based)?
Pretty interesting idea for sure, and I'm sure surviving your climate there in Aus would tell us if it'll hold up here.

Thanks VV for diving in. Yes. Interupt anodizing process. Print. Seal. But that kind of simplifies it (which is good as it's long). It's been 24 months of getting the supply chain and sealing right. More than 500 tests. There are more that 30 points of failure from the ally supply to the CNC. It's frustrating to print a 3ft x 3ft panel, seal it and see dots with no print in the pores. Or see banding half way through a 6ft x 3ft panel print. (Humidity controlled room sometimes has a moment)
However it is incredible detail. The lustre is insane. 2800dpi max gives depth of color and detail to match. (However, I am sort of selling it . Australia is a variable climate. Tropical up north, sub tropical in the middle (Or if in Central Australia - a desert) and moderate on the southern tip. It handles it all. It has all the benefits of anodized, plus the inks are formulated for the machine, the process and the outcome.
I think Southern Cali, Texas, Florida and the lakes areas up north or high up in the Rockies, no prob. We are mid stream with a few places in the Caribbean too. They found us.
Drop a sample request in the web. It will ship from Cali. If you want a few more, hit me up. Any questions answered here.

 

[Paul from Enduralox®]

Nice to see other options, but is anything more durable than HPL? That's what I get requests for when federal parks / zoos reach out. How does it compare? And has this method been around long enough to make a fair comparison?

Hi TG
Thank for asking. Truly.
It has been around for 15 years.
However it has sat in the data plate, asset tag, small panel space. In a dark corner.
At 2100mm x 1140mm (sorry for metric), we are talking it to signage and walls and whatever works.

HPL is surface. ENDURALOX is under the surface. Like a tattoo. It’s logical being anodised that it will out perform HPL and any other surface print.

Black text indoor would be 15 plus years. Color indoors would be 10 years (with say 20% color fade) and depends on colors. Outdoor black we thin 6-8 years and full color 5-7 with 30% color fade.

Still readable, still looks like original color. But a bit subdued.

It’s anodised. So pretty bloody great.

Happy to print you your design. I’ll ship it from here no charge. Gotta go and prove it hey.

Let me know here and I’ll send your an email.

 

[citysignshop]

sounds Verrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting!
with any of our outdoor displays, ( 50N altitude, so summer has 16 hrs of sun!) durability/fade resistance is critical.
I see quite a few 15 year old HPL signs here that are still quite legible, but the lam has clouded etc.
The other main issue is vandalism; with no clear top laminate ( which can be the UV weak point in itself) how does your ink stand up to cleaning with solvents, should a graffiti tag be removed?
If these issues are addressed, I guess I'd like to see a sample!
We are undertaking some major Parks and wayfinding projects in the next few years, so writing something into those specs would be an obvious first step!
thanks!

 

[Paul from Enduralox®]

sounds Verrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting!
with any of our outdoor displays, ( 50N altitude, so summer has 16 hrs of sun!) durability/fade resistance is critical.
I see quite a few 15 year old HPL signs here that are still quite legible, but the lam has clouded etc.
The other main issue is vandalism; with no clear top laminate ( which can be the UV weak point in itself) how does your ink stand up to cleaning with solvents, should a graffiti tag be removed?
If these issues are addressed, I guess I'd like to see a sample!
We are undertaking some major Parks and wayfinding projects in the next few years, so writing something into those specs would be an obvious first step!
thanks!

I know the Okanagan Valley. Played cricket there for a local team in the 80s lol. lived in Van in the 90s and came back to Vernon and Sun Peaks earlier in the year for a couple of weeks skiing. Great place and yes, weather is fairly brutal. One of our resellers installed 40 or so ENDURALOX® panels right on the coast throughout the Byron Bay National Park lighthouse walk. find linkedin in for good views of the signs in action. Been there for 18 months. Still looking great. Can get up to 35ºc, is humid and wet.

The way to think about ENDURALOX® is it is anodised. The message/image/design is IN the aluminium and UNDER the surface. So the surface remain non-porous and can easily handle the removal of grafitti using a solvent. It is highly resistant to abrasion, fire, heat, humidity, cold, ice, snow, chemicals and it cannot be peeled off as its IN the aluminum.
It can come printed on flat panel (0.5mm-3.0mm), aluminum composite (fire retardant mineral core) or even perforated panels for one way vision. note: can print up to 40mm but can't get the raw material.
UV is always a challenge but the inks are ultra UV resistant. Dye based inks formulated with organic solvents to maximise durability (4- methylpentan-2-one and 1-methoxy-2- propanol)
Vivid is fine, but yellows and purples will decline first. Black text is essential for longevity but printing "white" on solid color also favourable as its the aly itself.
In terms of decline, it may fade 20-30% for certain colours over 4-7 years but we have noticed you can easily tell the original colours, they just lose a bit of their depth.
INSIDE say a hotel lobby, no issue.
2 Final things. 1 - attached is a sample we did for a Vancouver company looking after the new Squamish NP. it looked staggering on the aly. 2 - if you email your proper artwork to hello@enduralox.com attn Paul, i will print you an A3 panel and air freight it over. Lets get it out there in the mountains Then i can visit lol.

 

[citysignshop]

I know the Okanagan Valley. Played cricket there for a local team in the 80s lol. lived in Van in the 90s and came back to Vernon and Sun Peaks earlier in the year for a couple of weeks skiing. Great place and yes, weather is fairly brutal. One of our resellers installed 40 or so ENDURALOX® panels right on the coast throughout the Byron Bay National Park lighthouse walk. find linkedin in for good views of the signs in action. Been there for 18 months. Still looking great. Can get up to 35ºc, is humid and wet.

The way to think about ENDURALOX® is it is anodised. The message/image/design is IN the aluminium and UNDER the surface. So the surface remain non-porous and can easily handle the removal of grafitti using a solvent. It is highly resistant to abrasion, fire, heat, humidity, cold, ice, snow, chemicals and it cannot be peeled off as its IN the aluminum.
It can come printed on flat panel (0.5mm-3.0mm), aluminum composite (fire retardant mineral core) or even perforated panels for one way vision. note: can print up to 40mm but can't get the raw material.
UV is always a challenge but the inks are ultra UV resistant. Dye based inks formulated with organic solvents to maximise durability (4- methylpentan-2-one and 1-methoxy-2- propanol)
Vivid is fine, but yellows and purples will decline first. Black text is essential for longevity but printing "white" on solid color also favourable as its the aly itself.
In terms of decline, it may fade 20-30% for certain colours over 4-7 years but we have noticed you can easily tell the original colours, they just lose a bit of their depth.
INSIDE say a hotel lobby, no issue.
2 Final things. 1 - attached is a sample we did for a Vancouver company looking after the new Squamish NP. it looked staggering on the aly. 2 - if you email your proper artwork to hello@enduralox.com attn Paul, i will print you an A3 panel and air freight it over. Lets get it out there in the mountains Then i can visit lol.

ah, I checked out Byron bay signs, nice stuff! I will talk to the chiefs here and see what kind of art might be appropriate for a sample! thanks! ( and cricket??? I grew up in Vernon, but haven't heard much of that sport! Luckily the big ballfields at the Army camp probably are well suited to the game!)

 

[Kev-O-Rama]

I'd be very interested in some of your samples, as well. We're in Dallas, Texas. Should I assume shipping would not be free in our case? If we would regularly order panels from you, what would the turn around time be?

 

[JBurton]

Sounds a lot like imageloc stuff: https://www.envirosigns.com/products/imageloc
This stuff aggravated me so much, mostly because the company that I requested a quote from for a local bid job turned around and bid it as well!
Are you opening fabrication up in the states for this product line, or is everything going to have to come from oz?

 

[TradeBalanceBoss]

Sounds a lot like imageloc stuff: https://www.envirosigns.com/products/imageloc
This stuff aggravated me so much, mostly because the company that I requested a quote from for a local bid job turned around and bid it as well!
Are you opening fabrication up in the states for this product line, or is everything going to have to come from oz?

Yes exactly! That is the main concern. Is this dealer an actual to trade only or just using the tradesmen as useful idiots to further their product.

 

[Paul from Enduralox®]

ah, I checked out Byron bay signs, nice stuff! I will talk to the chiefs here and see what kind of art might be appropriate for a sample! thanks! ( and cricket??? I grew up in Vernon, but haven't heard much of that sport! Luckily the big ballfields at the Army camp probably are well suited to the game!)

Lol - Yes - Cricket is def weird.
So for sure send the sample art over. We will print and ship.
Looking forward to seeing it.

Paul

 

[Paul from Enduralox®]

Sounds a lot like imageloc stuff: https://www.envirosigns.com/products/imageloc
This stuff aggravated me so much, mostly because the company that I requested a quote from for a local bid job turned around and bid it as well!
Are you opening fabrication up in the states for this product line, or is everything going to have to come from oz?

Hi JB
Thanks for posting.
Imageloc is basically a surface print with a UV coating.
ENDURALOX® is sub surface.
It's direct print high res into the actual anodised aluminum. Like a tattoo i suppose is one way of describing it.
We interupt the anodising process, print and seal.
Luckily, we don't compete with our resellers. We focus on supporting resellers
We also try and get the product known by specifiers/designers.
We have a US distributor in CA.
The goal is US production in CA and other areas but we will for now, print here and ship direct.
It is a significant program to set up but lets see how we go once we get the volume up.
We are sharing some of the the shipping costs to offset for US/Canada.
Hit me at paul.r@enduralox.com or send a sample request through the website.
This is starting to bubble up nicely with US/Canada Sign makers I have to say.

All charges/duties/shipping for samples will be borne by ENDURALOX®
So it is free


Paul

 

[Paul from Enduralox®]

Yes exactly! That is the main concern. Is this dealer an actual to trade only or just using the tradesmen as useful idiots to further their product.

Hi TB

We are to the trade only. You are the Signage experts. ENDURALOX® might add a little value to your products and services.

As examples....

// Head Office (Aust) was asked to quote EU12,000 of asset tags (data tags)
We sent the quote to our EU partners and they won the job.

// Head Office (Aust) was asked to quote 3 XXXXL instrumentation panels for a rail infrastructure project
We called a sign maker in Queensland and asked if they would quote on it. They did. They won it. They became a reseller.

Our channel to market for this product is not direct to end users. It a reseller product.

All charges/duties/shipping for samples will be borne by ENDURALOX®


Paul

 

[TradeBalanceBoss]

Hi TB

We are to the trade only. You are the Signage experts. ENDURALOX® might add a little value to your products and services.

As examples....

// Head Office (Aust) was asked to quote EU12,000 of asset tags (data tags)
We sent the quote to our EU partners and they won the job.

// Head Office (Aust) was asked to quote 3 XXXXL instrumentation panels for a rail infrastructure project
We called a sign maker in Queensland and asked if they would quote on it. They did. They won it. They because a reseller.

Our channel to market for this product is not direct to end users. It a reseller product.

All charges/duties/shipping for samples will be borne by ENDURALOX®


Paul

This is good to hear. Loyalty brings loyalty, that is how long term or forever term relationships prosper.

 

[Paul from Enduralox®]

I'd be very interested in some of your samples, as well. We're in Dallas, Texas. Should I assume shipping would not be free in our case? If we would regularly order panels from you, what would the turn around time be?

Hi Kev.
Drop me an email paul.r@enduralox.com
We cover all costs (freight/duties) for the samples, so reach out.
We will also print your design on a panel and send it with the standard samples if that suits.

The process for the product
1: our Cali based distributor receives the order and the artwork from you
2: we produce shop drawings confirming size, qty and art and send to you for approval
3: we product prod files, load into rip and print, dry, seal
4. we CNC route to size, perform our QA tests and pack it up for shipping
5. we ship using FEDEX/DHL (whichever is cheapest)

It normally takes around 4-7 days to produce from confirmation of artwork.
It normally takes 4 days to get it to anywhere in USA.
It would be great to get happening. I have a mate in Austin so keen to get Texas humming

Paul

 

[JBurton]

Alright, so nitty gritty, shipping cost aside, assuming largish order, maybe 100 pieces, what's your sq/ft cost estimate?

 

[Paul from Enduralox®]

Alright, so nitty gritty, shipping cost aside, assuming largish order, maybe 100 pieces, what's your sq/ft cost estimate?

Hi JB
Good Q
that sort of volume attracts discounting
But as it is priced based on exact dimension and router time to cut 100 panels, we need to price it properly.
Give me a dimension eg 40" x 40" and i will let our US Distributor know and he will send you an email.
either drop your email address here or sent email to paul.r@enduralox.com

does that work for you?

Paul

 

[Paul from Enduralox®]

This is good to hear. Loyalty brings loyalty, that is how long term or forever term relationships prosper.

so true. I want to build this product with good folks and good projects. It is already happening here in Australia which is awesome.