UV Ink Profiling?

[DoubleDown]

Does anyone have a good contact, really good contact or knowledge of how to properly profile inks for UV printers?

Thank you,

 

[KR3signguy]

I've just started profiling UV and it's no different than creating a profile like any other. I use Xrite/Monaco profiler. As light cures it instantly, there will be little need if profiling every substrate. Only ones that contain the same white point.

 

[DoubleDown]

See unfortunately that's not altogether true, because with UV inks you have to obviously put down all the ink possible to gain a large color gamut but you have to find the happy medium of bringing back the ink so you don't get lawnmower striping running bi-directional. When you are pumping up your machine to faster speeds, this becomes a big issue, as when you are doing large portions of dark solid colors.

We have had some top people profile our machines and have even done it ourselves but when you are running thousands of prints of dark material and the customer is not used to seeing light and dark color banding in their prints, it becomes an issue. Of course running unidirectional is a cure but that cuts speed in half and speed is money in this business. The faster and more effectively you can run the machine with good quality is the key. That is why I was looking for someone who has tons of experience in this department and advice.

But I appreciate the input.

Thank you,

 

[KR3signguy]

See unfortunately that's not altogether true, because with UV inks you have to obviously put down all the ink possible to gain a large color gamut but you have to find the happy medium of bringing back the ink so you don't get lawnmower striping running bi-directional. When you are pumping up your machine to faster speeds, this becomes a big issue, as when you are doing large portions of dark solid colors.

We have had some top people profile our machines and have even done it ourselves but when you are running thousands of prints of dark material and the customer is not used to seeing light and dark color banding in their prints, it becomes an issue. Of course running unidirectional is a cure but that cuts speed in half and speed is money in this business. The faster and more effectively you can run the machine with good quality is the key. That is why I was looking for someone who has tons of experience in this department and advice.

But I appreciate the input.

Thank you,

Well what does your top people say?
Well what I can tell you is. After your ink density has been determined in the inital profiling, banding shouldn't be an issue.
I've received print samples from many flatbed manufactures and many did have banding and it's the best that each machine could produce. It all comes down to the genetics of the inks your using, your carriage speeds, lamp settings etc. The color profile should not produce banding and you shouldn't have to run the machine unidirectional to obtain that, just set your ink density before profiling.
I can print heavy production full coverage black all day long & not experience banding. I'm very interested to know what type of machine your using.

 

[DoubleDown]

Well first, most of the samples you/we get from manufacturers are produced in high quality mode on unidirectional or high quality at bidirectional. Well, see that's the problem The "top" people profiled our machines for top color gamut and we were not even thinking about the density of the inks for darker colors, etc.

So before we call those people back, I was curious to see what others have to say, getting a couple other really good opinions from people who have been doing the profiling a long time.

I agree on pulling back the density but once you do that you cut out the ability to hit good colors accurately. I can pull back our density pretty far and get rid of the banding issues but then you lose the rich color.

We have several Colorspan 9840 flatbed's. I admit, they work great and we run large jobs at billboard mode at 881 sq/ft hr and they do an amazing job but we'd like to get rid of the banding more without losing the color.

Thanks,

 

[DoubleDown]

Also, here is a good article back a few years regarding this effect

http://www.oce-dgs.com/PrinterSuppo...S707x IS technical Info Bulletin dec-2005.pdf

And it really could come down to the speed we are running these jobs at and a few other factors.

Thanks,

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

Does anyone have a good contact, really good contact or knowledge of how to properly profile inks for UV printers?

Thank you,

Chris I know that since HP bought Colorspan They have decided to re introduce your machine under HP IID (Scitex, Nur , Colorspan). Versus discontinue it.

You should contact HP/Scitex in Atlanta. Ask for Moshe Shlomain. They have a new product out called the HP Color Win system. It is a fully automated profiling and workflow system. Not only will it fix your issue You can also have every single printer in your shop within the same gamut at the click of a mouse.

I can fill you in even further give me a call....

I also think part of the issue with your lawnmower banding is the belt drive on your machine versus a fixed vacum table like KR3 has with his Jeti.
Media feed vs. XY speed gives that kind of banding.

We dealt with it when we were running a PressVU.

 

[DoubleDown]

Mike,

Yeah, you could be right on the belt drive system which is why I am considering selling the 9840's and getting the new Jeti. The 9840's are really good machine, don't get me wrong if you use them correctly, just need to lose some of that effect at the higher speeds, etc. Heck, the color people who profile Jeti's all day long were extremely impressed with the color gamut and quality these machines produce.

I will definitely contact HP about that...of course it's just more money on profiling machines. We already spent a good amount to get every machine printing out the same color across the board, but I'm curious to find out especially since they are keeping the machine.

I'll call ya and thanks,

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

Mike,

Yeah, you could be right on the belt drive system which is why I am considering selling the 9840's and getting the new Jeti. The 9840's are really good machine, don't get me wrong if you use them correctly, just need to lose some of that effect at the higher speeds, etc. Heck, the color people who profile Jeti's all day long were extremely impressed with the color gamut and quality these machines produce.

I will definitely contact HP about that...of course it's just more money on profiling machines. We already spent a good amount to get every machine printing out the same color across the board, but I'm curious to find out especially since they are keeping the machine.

I'll call ya and thanks,

If you go with the Color Win they take money off the selling price as a rebate for profiling instruments you currently have.

Like 1K Off for an Eye one

2k off for a proofing printer

?k off if you have existing profiling software.

We got like $7,000 in rebates for the system.

I will give you the whole skinny when we talk.

 

[KR3signguy]

May I ask, what causes the belt drive to produce banding?
Why would this happen upon heavy coverage, I would think that the color would just bleed into itself and light settings, printhead out, low passes or bad feed rate could only cause this. Especially with full black coverage.
Does the colorspan allow you to adjust the passes, feed rate and ink density within it's Gui?
I have profiled numerous printers aqueus, solvent & UV. Always I have started out finding the correct ink density for each media then proceeded to create the profile, that's how I was taught.
Rather than spending any more money on new software, you might want to consider leaning on the "Top people" to come back. I guess.
I'm just curious to know exactly why & I hope this issue resolves promptly for you.

 

[KR3signguy]

See unfortunately that's not altogether true, because with UV inks you have to obviously put down all the ink possible to gain a large color gamut but you have to find the happy medium of bringing back the ink so you don't get lawnmower striping running bi-directional. When you are pumping up your machine to faster speeds, this becomes a big issue, as when you are doing large portions of dark

At normal speeds your ink coverage is not the problem, from your statement I figure it's only when your speeding up the machine. Maybe the passes/carriage speed/lamp ratio needs adjusting until you find the highest speed that is acceptable that the lamps will keep up & cure correctly rather than going back to ink densitys. Along with heat settings for ink viscosity and head voltage adjustments at higher speeds. Maybe there's a limitation to the tolerance of speed vs quality for that machine. Maybe???


Tell me what do you normally adjust when running at faster speeds??
and how long has this been going on?

 

[ScottyDoo]

Chris I know that since HP bought Colorspan They have decided to re introduce your machine under HP IID (Scitex, Nur , Colorspan). Versus discontinue it.

They're supposed to be coming around to 9840 owners and making updates to the machines and switching out the names on them, etc. That's what I've been told as well, though no official date other than "soon".

 

[DoubleDown]

Everything is pretty much determined in Onxy and profiles in regards to densities, etc. You only have the option go from low to high lamp settings in the GUI and you can go from high quality to normal to billboard mode. And then in the rip you can make a setting for a 6 x 3 billboard mode which bumps up the speed from 425 to 881 per hour. And I think we pretty much realize that in this mode on this machine, you really aren't going to get rid of the lawnmower effect, but we're trying to minimize it.

And Scotty, you are right, there are major upgrades coming for the 9840's and they are working on packing up the entire kit right now for the techs to come out and change everything. Supposedly there are some pretty good upgrades coming about.

thanks,

 

[WYLDGFI]

We dont get a lot of banding on our PV 200. We're typically running our heads .060 or .055 to the media. I think that helps us out with the banding issue because the angle the ink lands and sticks makes a big difference. May want to try lowering your carriage some and adjusting the Bi-dir. Makes for some interesting and nail biting times...we had hit and BROKEN a di-bond sheet with the carriage. jets came out of it unscathed thankfully. The print quality though can be worth it.