Which way is up?

[phototec]

Working on my first pan face sign, the customer had taken down the sign cabinet and I'm supplying a new pan face for the cabinet.

I know very little about sign cabinets, and I'm trying to determine the top side of this cabinet, the customer does not remember which way was UP when he removed the sign cabinet.

I know someone here has experience with sign cabinets, and thought maybe someone could give me some pointers as to which way to rotate the cabinet, and what should be the TOP?

I have noticed on another similar 4x4 sign cabinet, that the ballast was at the top and the bulbs run horizontally, I don't know if that is standard or not.

Does it matter where the ballast is located (top, bottom, side)?

Does it matter which direction the bulbs run, horizontal or vertical?

What would your best guess be as to how this cabinet should be oriented for the face to be made to fit, as shown in the photos the sign cabinet is a little wider than it is tall.

Thanks for any help.

 

[signcrafters london]

Ballasts go on the top. If there are two ballasts in a large sign they may go on the sides. Never put a ballast in the bottom because water could pool in the bottom. I'd say you have the sign upside down in the pics.

 

[phototec]

Ballasts go on the top. If there are two ballasts in a large sign they may go on the sides. Never put a ballast in the bottom because water could pool in the bottom. I'd say you have the sign upside down in the pics.

Hey, Thanks for the info, I was thinking the same thing (common sense).

Because the cabinet is one inch wider than it is tall, I needed to know which is the top before ordering the pan face.

 

[phototec]

Ballasts go on the top. If there are two ballasts in a large sign they may go on the sides. Never put a ballast in the bottom because water could pool in the bottom. I'd say you have the sign upside down in the pics.

What about bulbs, which way do they typically run, vert or horz?

 

[HulkSmash]

vertical

 

[phototec]

vertical

Coloradosigns, Thanks

Is there any reason for this, like not placing the ballast on the bottom because water could pool in the bottom?

 

[HulkSmash]

I dont manufacture them. We just service and install them. So im not exactly sure why.

 

[Wes Phifer]

On single sided signs I always run the lamps horizontal to avoid the sockets being in the "puddle". Also if there is a box on it I always but the box on the side to minimize water entry. So I would say the cabinet is upside down in your photo.
There also should be some bolts in the top for lifting points.

 

[Techman]

it wont matter anyway. You can invert it if you got the top and bottom mixed up.

 

[visual800]

you should also be able to tell by weathering on the top or bottom. which ever was top should be lighter and more "worn" but usually ballast are on top to protect them

 

[signmeup]

I don't think they got the memo up here. I have yet to open a sign cabinet that has the ballast anywhere but the bottom. Ballasts are heavy and apparently sign makers up here are lazy... It appears to be easier to plop the ballast in the bottom, especially if it's a replacement ballast.

A site visit might save you quite a bit of grief.

 

[skyhigh]

As someone else mentioned........you will usually find a bolt on the top for lifting, and "weep holes" on the bottom. (not good to have them on top).

My guess is that your cabinet is sitting upside down.
As for bulb orientation, I prefer horizontal. Water & condensation will run down the vertical lamps & rot out /short out the sockets. I don't think I've ever serviced a sign with vertical lamps that didn't have this problem.

 

[Marlene]

As someone else mentioned........you will usually find a bolt on the top for lifting, and "weep holes" on the bottom. (not good to have them on top).

My guess is that your cabinet is sitting upside down.
As for bulb orientation, I prefer horizontal. Water & condensation will run down the vertical lamps & rot out /short out the sockets. I don't think I've ever serviced a sign with vertical lamps that didn't have this problem.

+1
if you can have the bulbs run horizontally, it works better for all the reasons above. also, there should be a UL decal or at least some type of manufactures decal which would give you a clue what side it up.

 

[CES020]

I've not seen a lot of them, but every one I have ever replaced a face on had the ballast on the bottom as well. I guess whoever's doing all that work here didn't get the memo either.

 

[skyhigh]

I've not seen a lot of them, but every one I have ever replaced a face on had the ballast on the bottom as well. I guess whoever's doing all that work here didn't get the memo either.

That may very well be the case with this one. Look for the weepholes & lifts on the opposite end.

 

[Gino]

As mentioned, the ballasts are almost always on the top or sides.

If you look closely at the tracks, you should see an extra amount of mold or mildew in one of the tracks. That will more than likely be your bottom. Also, on that side you should see some drain holes [I think that's what sky was referring to weep holes].

It's probably a 4' x 4' can and the extra inch one way is to house the lamp raceway and sockets. If for any reason you order the faces based on your sizes..... it can go back up anyway you want. You can always re-wire it and put the ballast where you want it.

When you are doing a sign like this and have it on the ground, it would be to your advantage to check all the sockets, their wiring and replace the ballast, unless you know it's only a year or two old. Ballasts are usually good for about ten years or so. Don't chance it. Tell your customer you're going to completely service the entire can and contents while it's on the ground to save him money, because if you don't.... Murphy's Law will kick in and 6 weeks after it's up, the lights will start to flicker or dim...... and you'll be up in the air in a bucket, trying to fix this bastard again.

 

[NSW Systems LLC]

out of all the post I have read on this subject SKYHIGH wins the prize for being correct.
WEEP HOLES is the correct answer.
They are always at the bottom of a cabinet or lowest part of a channel letter.
Ballast placement and lamp placement is not even a factor. that is just up to the MFG and how they produce there signage.

Mike
NSW

 

[GAC05]

If there are no weep holes look for the bird poop. It will always be on the top rail unless it was put there by those juvenile teen birds throwing it all over to mess with the man.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[phototec]

Wow, I want to thank all of you for the great replies, I have learned a bunch.

This being my first ever pan face sign job has really gone pretty good so far, at first I got pricing from a few pan face vendors from out out state which required crating and shipment, and as I kept doing my homework, Google searching, and the info from Signs 101, I was able to locate a locale supplier within driving distance from me, so I can pick up the molded pan face in person in about 7 work days.

The vendor is even going to give me the 25 cent tour of the operation, so I will have a good understanding of how they make the molded pan faces. The vendor gave me some interesting information, although they use a plotter and sign vinyl to cut the paint masks, the vinyl only needs to be on the inside of the pan face until they are painted, so they use very cheap old vinyl of any color. He said he is always looking for closeouts, etc.

Again, Thanks everyone for helping me get through this project, this is a great site...

Now, that I know what to look for on the cabinet, it was upside down in the photo.

ALL

 

[John Butto]

"Now, that I know what to look for on the cabinet, it was upside down in the photo".

By that sticker in your last photo shows if the cabinet is flipped around and it will be at the top and backwards so I would guess like some of the others that the ballast is on the bottom or maybe on the side. When a ballast is at the top and you go to replace it... those things are heavy and a lot easier to just unbolt on the side or bottom so as not to slip and fall from the top and break the bulbs on the way down.