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Why should I switch my Designjet 8000 over to a Latex 360

TSC1985

New Member
Whoo hoo first post!!!

We need to upgrade to new machine from the design jet 8000. It served us well but we need faster, more reliable printing (plus the stench is finally getting to me). Ive heard lots of stuff from the distributors what latex is better than roland solvent but i have yet to find a small house like ourselves that has a latex, most have ecosolve.

What have you found that works well and doesnt work well with the latex? We do a lot of vehicles will latex hold up well? What are the ink costs in reality?

Thanks for the information and for all you guys do to make this forum great!
 

AF

New Member
Latex is an entirely different beast. Do your research and try to find a demo center for some hands-on evaluation.
 

Hotspur

New Member
solvent vs Latex

Several reasons - until about 12 months ago the Latex was always aimed at mid-level and the hardware pricing reflected this somewhat.

There wasn't a version aimed at the small shops until the new L310 came along so I'm not surprised you see a lot of eco-solvents at this end of the market.

Add to this that small shops often don't have the space for a separate printer and cutter so an all-in-one like a Roland is popular.

Also since Latex became market leader the likes of Epson and Mutoh have lowered their hardware pricing to find a niche.

Roland and Mimaki have stood firmer on price due to having a loyal following and weaknesses in earlier versions of Latex but have seen much of their market share eroded since the 360 arrived.

Comparing the technologies:

Latex is completely environmentally friendly - nice for the birds & bees (and your operator) but the important point is it allows you access to markets where solvent or UV is not liked (interior design, schools & kindergartens, hospitals, local govt etc etc) Latex has been around so long now that many end users are asking for this technology and to stay with solvent can limit your market moving forwards - latex will future-proof your business.

Remember many people make the mistake of thinking that Eco-Solvent means "ecological" - it never has - the "eco" in eco-solvent means "economy" - its only since Latex appeared that the solvent manufacturers have been quietly trying to promote this idea. Just take a look at the MSDS documents of any Eco-solvent ink to see if you want one in an un-vented office like some try to suggest...

The Latex will cost the same to run in terms of consumables Vs eco-solvent however the electricity costs will be about double.

If you want to price this the difference is about 5 cents per sq/m power costs. For most people this is insignificant enough not to be an issue but it is there none-the-less.

The durability is now identical to mild solvent - scratch proof and 3 years outdoors un-laminated etc (remember Eco-solvent however, scratches more easily by comparison)

Media availability is always a contentious issue - fair to say that mild / full / Eco-solvent operate well on 99% of media in particular families of substrate - Self Adhesive, scrim banner, backlit, etc - the stuff you use now on the 8000.

The latex will print onto more families of media by comparison - for example all that solvent can use plus textile and photo & coated papers - but taken as a whole it will only work well on 80% of media from each family - the other 20% won't like the heat.

So there's your choice. With Latex you can print onto a wider variety of media across more applications but accept that for each application you need to be a bit more careful you choose one that works OK on Latex.

HP have a list of 600 or so medias that have been tested for Latex on their Media Solutions Locator website if that helps.

Other differences -

Immediate finishing with latex (no gassing off period required) so you can laminate immediately after printing - many vehicle wrappers now use latex for this reason alone.
Print heads are disposable and the cost is included in the cost per copy price match with solvent - i.e not an extra expense so you can quickly recover from a head crash & nozzle quality wont drop after a few years like a piezo head.
360 can build a full profile on-board and so you never have to worry about not having the right profile for your selected media - these profiles are rip-independent too.
Print quality Vs speed is better than all solvent at this level apart from Seiko I would say - solid tints with no banding at 17sqm/h on vinyl is normal whereas on solvents you get some horizontal banding before this speed is attained.
The Seiko's however are expensive and drink a hell of a lot of ink.
Cheap PVC will struggle on Latex as the plasticizer in the media doesn't like the heat and you can get roller marks. Fresh PVC does not show this but most is from China and is having plasticizer migration by the time you get it.
No white ink & no metallics so if you have such a niche here Latex can't help you.
Latex car wrapping is easier as the vinyl maintains its integrity - solvent ink eats into the vinyl and makes it very soft - wrapping folks find a latex vinyl easier to handle & apply.

If you have an HP8000 you obviously keep your machines for a long time - I think the future-proofing that Latex gives you, plus the extra media families you have access to and subsequently increased variety of markets open to you for no penalty in cost per copy should steer you in this direction.

Given that you do vehicle wraps gives extra incentive as you can finish and apply immediately unlike solvent - I even have short-term cabs being wrapped with no lamination now as it is so robust for 1-2 month campaigns.

These comments are an aggregate from over 600 Latex printer installs so an individual's experience will vary from this - but they are an accurate overview from my experience.

Good luck in your choice.
 
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