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2023 Wrap Up. First Year Doing Sign Printing Business, No Experience, Gross 800K, Net 0, Need Advice!

10sacer

New Member
Hello everyone,

I've been a member of this community for over a year now, and I've learned so much from all of you. First and foremost, I want to express my gratitude to each and every one of you for your contributions and support.

Let me share a bit about our journey. I come from a background in the automotive industry and dabbled in IT before venturing into this business. My partner and I decided to open our shop after witnessing the success of his laser cutting business, which focused on acrylic sneeze guards and generated an impressive $1-2 million in net profit using two Chinese-made laser machines between 2020 and 2022.

However, with the pandemic's decline in demand for these products, my partner and I saw an opportunity to diversify our business. We established our shop in Los Angeles, where costs can be quite high, but we were fortunate to find a spacious warehouse spanning 5600 square feet for $8,000 a month – it even comes with its own yard, which I really appreciate.

While I didn't have much experience in printing initially, my background in photography helped me grasp some of the concepts involved in printing more easily. We've recently ordered a range of printing machines, and our journey has just begun.

Currently, our printing department includes the following machines: Mimaki JFX200-2513 (Dual CMYK), Mimaki UCJV300-160, HP Latex 700, Epson F6470H, EPSON 9890 converted to dye sublimation, and Canon Pro4100. We rely on Onyx RIP software for all our printers, which has proven to be a wise investment after some initial struggles with Mimaki's software.

In our finishing department, we operate a JW CB03 2516 Digital Cutter (a budget-friendly Chinese alternative to Zund – I dream of owning a Zund one day!), a 7.5KW 4X8 Chinese CNC with Camera System, RollsRoller 340/170 Flatbed Applicator, two 4X8 Finishing Tables, Keencut Evo 3 Cutter, Gallery Stretcher 60 for canvas, two 48X36 CO2 Lasers, a 47X59 Large Format Heat Press from China, and a 16X20 Small Heat Press. Additionally, we have a Double Head Angle Cutting Machine, Picture Framing Joint Machine, and two laminators. We also use EFI ES2000 for color profiling.

It was a significant challenge for me to get all these machines working together, especially with just two employees – one for printing production and the other for packaging, shipping, and laser cutting. However, they are both brilliant and manage all these tasks without any issues. It wasn't until August that everything finally ran smoothly, and now our shop operates more like huge size copy shop with out image press which is wired.

I must admit that I lack experience in certain areas, particularly installation and hands-on skills. This limitation has led us to miss out on some orders. As a result, I have started accepting orders that I believe we can handle, such as foamcore, vinyl,decal and other printing-related jobs that align with our machine capabilities. However, this approach has reduced our efficiency, and I often find myself exhausted, especially with many smaller orders that are in the couple hundred-dollar range – a challenging fit for our shop's size.

We also sell acrylic products, posters, and metal prints on Amazon, and it took a considerable amount of time and money to perfect our chromaluxe printing process. We invested in an i1 Pro 3 Plus to improve color profiling and minimize reflections. The testing process consumed a lot of materials and resources, adding to our overall costs.

On Amazon, we generated about $600,000 in sales, but after deductions, I received around $250,000. This amount needs to cover our rent, wages, materials, box shipping and various unexpected expenses. In addition to our Amazon sales, we secured over $200,000 in domestic orders, primarily for foamcore cutouts used by party planners. I also handle our social media efforts. However with all these cost we made 0 maybe losing some money.

The commercial printing and sign industry is vast and offers numerous products, each with its unique characteristics, such as different types of vinyl, material, some require specialty hardware and it is hard to do bulk order. Like printing same poster for 10000PC rather 10000 People order 10000 different poster and need ship each one, which sucks.
Right now i am not able to have my machine running fully everyday. Roll to Roll Machine produce only 100 Sqfts of vinyl which is totally not enough. We got order from local delivery company and after doing 30-40K worth of business. They already filled the glass of all their restaurants

To address these challenges and diversify our revenue streams, we're currently working on setting up an online order Web2Print system with a focus on photo products like metal prints and canvas prints. We also plan to run Meta Ads to expand our reach. Given our inability to fabricate signs and compete with B2 Sign on wholesale printing, this shift towards online photo product sales appears to be our breaking point.

We finally have the capability to produce high-quality metal prints,canvas,giclee print,and Acrylic Facemount prints. but it's crucial to scale up and optimize the process due to the expensive materials involved, including nelson framing. The profit isn't high but i see some company can take 200 order of these stuff a day.It's not an easy industry to navigate, but I'm committed to making it work since we're already deeply invested in it.

I welcome any and all suggestions and advice from everyone here. Thank you for being a part of this journey with us.
We do over $6 million a year with four printers in two locations. A Vutek GS3200 and a Canon M5 in Charlotte and Mimaki flatbed and same Canon in Maryland. Both locations have cutters. You have too many unused toys and going after wrong business. Three members of our team who handle all incoming web requests and phone inquiries sit outside my office and turn down 60-70% of all requests. Our total orders are down and our revenues are up 40% over first quarter last year. Figure out what you want to specialize in and dump the rest.

Sean
 

Ryze Signs

New Member
It's not that uncommon for a startup to be cash flow negative in the beginning. If you break even your first year or come close you're doing alright as long as those numbers include the equipment purchases. Starting a business is hard. Once you get established and get your equipment paid off things start to get easier.

I've found most our profit isn't in printing, but in full service jobs where we manufactured and installed the product. The printing world seems to be quite competitive as it's fairly easy and relatively cheap to buy a printer/plotter and start selling stuff.

Find your niche, pay off your equipment, find out which products are the most profitable for you and focus on them. Only buy new equipment when you can pay cash, or have an immediate ROI that can be sustained.
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
hulign, I got worn out and stressed reading about your business life. Hopefully you can retire and move to Florida like the previous owner did.
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
Three members of our team who handle all incoming web requests and phone inquiries sit outside my office and turn down 60-70% of all requests. Our total orders are down and our revenues are up 40% over first quarter last year. Figure out what you want to specialize in and dump the rest.

Sean
So that is the tricky part. How do you set the parameters and train an employee as to what jobs you take and which get turned down? That can either go really good or really bad depending on who you have in place. A savvy business owner can do this quite well but I can't wrap my head around how one would convey this strategy to others. I actually had this conversation with my wife yesterday and neither of us had an answer but know there is a way.
 

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
How do you set the parameters and train an employee as to what jobs you take and which get turned down?
Parameters for the employee are very menu-driven from practically all questions to ask, schedules to apply, product construction, and pricing.

The employee first qualifies the prospect / buyer along with their timeframe and products they’re looking for compared to what the shop can deliver. After the basic specs are determined, it’s then up to the prospect to decide if they’re OK with the quote. Maybe the prospect is not happy with the quoted price because they’re asked to pay a premium for an expedited project. So be it. The employee is within the business parameters.
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
Parameters for the employee are very menu-driven from practically all questions to ask, schedules to apply, product construction, and pricing.

The employee first qualifies the prospect / buyer along with their timeframe and products they’re looking for compared to what the shop can deliver. After the basic specs are determined, it’s then up to the prospect to decide if they’re OK with the quote. Maybe the prospect is not happy with the quoted price because they’re asked to pay a premium for an expedited project. So be it. The employee is within the business parameters.
So you're suggesting to do it on a job by job basis as opposed to a customer by customer basis? That would be pretty easy. What about if your business model took the approach of being selective on what customers to take rather than doing it by job? Do you make a profile of what type of client fits into your business model? Somewhat like a manufacturer does when selecting distributors?
 

MikePro

New Member
you're in California. raise your prices, cut your costs ...or move your operations across state lines.

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This is a tough Marathon, You started out sprinting, but should have started out with a crawl, walk, run mindset.
So many guys focus on the equipment but maybe maybe your design, production, finish customer service is sub par.
Buying a racecar does not make you a successful Race Car Driver.
Covid was a time when people succeeded greatly and failed miserably, not a good measure of the norm.
My advise find local customers move from amazon any other shop in a cheaper state can and will undercut you on Amazon.
The areas you are succeeding ramp those up and with that much equipment maybe you can wholesale to other shops in the area, Good luck, wishing you success!
 

JamesLam

New Member
I would think the best tidbit of advice from this post and many previous posts is to not try to be all things to all people. The forum is successful because it brings like minded people together that share and collaborate on projects both here and in the field.
 
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