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Suggestions Desktop Printer for Proofing

whatsinaname

New Member
We are looking to add a desktop printer for sampling and proofing our decals/stickers print designs on vinyl and presenting to customers.

What desktop printers can print even on Printable Vinyl media? Any models from Canon or Epson that can print good even on Vinyl?
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
I've always been of the mindset that one uses the same machine for proofing that one uses for production. That is just another vector of having slight differences introduced. Inevitably something isn't quite the same, even if it was the same brand as the main production machine, differences especially in models may cause some issues with the sample phase. May not be an issue, but it's happened enough to me that I don't bother with it.
 

DL Signs

Never go against the family
Unfortunately there will always be a color difference between the two.
When I get down to where there's only a couple feet left on a roll, or large enough pieces of scrap that would normally just go in the trash, I cut it off, roll it up and stick them in a box. When I need to do color matches/ color proofs I rotate em' 90 so they're long enough, stick em' in the printer I'll be using for the job. Waste doesn't go to waste, don't have to use what's on full rolls you need for jobs just for these things, and colors be accurate. I always have a few pieces of the most commonly used stuff for this. Doesn't take up much room, and off of standard 54" wide material you can get a quite a bit on a 24" wide strip, not just for proofs, but experimenting, testing profiles and other things, or just trying to match colors. You can waste a lot of vinyl trying to hit some colors, making a swatch or two, or even small decal proofs to show a customer. Been doing this for decades, and can't even imagine how many rolls of vinyl it's saved having to purchase, a foot here and there adds up to a lot over time. One man's trash is another man's treasure :cool:
 

whatsinaname

New Member
Unfortunately there will always be a color difference between the two.
When I get down to where there's only a couple feet left on a roll, or large enough pieces of scrap that would normally just go in the trash, I cut it off, roll it up and stick them in a box. When I need to do color matches/ color proofs I rotate em' 90 so they're long enough, stick em' in the printer I'll be using for the job. Waste doesn't go to waste, don't have to use what's on full rolls you need for jobs just for these things, and colors be accurate. I always have a few pieces of the most commonly used stuff for this. Doesn't take up much room, and off of standard 54" wide material you can get a quite a bit on a 24" wide strip, not just for proofs, but experimenting, testing profiles and other things, or just trying to match colors. You can waste a lot of vinyl trying to hit some colors, making a swatch or two, or even small decal proofs to show a customer. Been doing this for decades, and can't even imagine how many rolls of vinyl it's saved having to purchase, a foot here and there adds up to a lot over time. One man's trash is another man's treasure :cool:

My bad. :) I should have been more specific. The printer is not just for proofing. Its mainly for our designing and sampling flow. We outsource our printing and so sampling and production happen at different locations. So we cannot do without the desktop printer.

I know there will be a lot of difference but there is no other way than getting a desktop printer that can print on vinyl for sampling the designs.
 

bteifeld

Substratia Consulting,Printing,Ergosoft Reseller
I've always been of the mindset that one uses the same machine for proofing that one uses for production. That is just another vector of having slight differences introduced. Inevitably something isn't quite the same, even if it was the same brand as the main production machine, differences especially in models may cause some issues with the sample phase. May not be an issue, but it's happened enough to me that I don't bother with it.
I was curious about when you tried using a different printer as a proofing printer- did you compare the proofing printer's
3d representation of the gamut of the icc profile to the target printer's 3d representation of the gamut of the icc profile?

Also- were you using any facilities within the RIP software you work with that allow you to use the target printer's ICC
profile as a basis for simulating its behavior on the proofing printer?
 

DL Signs

Never go against the family
My bad. :) I should have been more specific. The printer is not just for proofing. Its mainly for our designing and sampling flow. We outsource our printing and so sampling and production happen at different locations. So we cannot do without the desktop printer.
Ok, I thought you did your own printing in house. That changes things.
One option that will work to print samples/ proofs on vinyl, and not take up a lot of space is a small format digital printer, most have 24 or 30" models.
If you need something really compact, Roland actually has a 20" digital desktop printer/ cutter (BN-20) that uses CMYK or CMYK+W. Being an actual digital printer it uses the same ecosol inks as large format printers, you could create profiles in the provided VersaWorks, or other RIP software you want to use to match what your print vendor provides. You could print samples & proofs on the same vinyl that they'll be printing on, and even do print/ cut files for decals samples. Options like this have a pretty hefty up front cost (5-6 grand), but has the capability to do what you're looking for. Could even do small runs and one off decals in house on something like this.
 

whatsinaname

New Member
Ok, I thought you did your own printing in house. That changes things.
One option that will work to print samples/ proofs on vinyl, and not take up a lot of space is a small format digital printer, most have 24 or 30" models.
If you need something really compact, Roland actually has a 20" digital desktop printer/ cutter (BN-20) that uses CMYK or CMYK+W. Being an actual digital printer it uses the same ecosol inks as large format printers, you could create profiles in the provided VersaWorks, or other RIP software you want to use to match what your print vendor provides. You could print samples & proofs on the same vinyl that they'll be printing on, and even do print/ cut files for decals samples. Options like this have a pretty hefty up front cost (5-6 grand), but has the capability to do what you're looking for. Could even do small runs and one off decals in house on something like this.
Great..Anything from Epson or Canon that can print on Vinyl? As those brands are easily available here.
 

DL Signs

Never go against the family
Great..Anything from Epson or Canon that can print on Vinyl? As those brands are easily available here.
Roland is the only one I know of that has one that bridges that gap for vinyl use. Most companies make desktop paper machines, or large format (36" and up) for vinyl, with nothing in between. Desktops are made for documents, photos, they will print to some thin vinyls like label & crafting sheets with coatings that simulate printing to paper specifically designed for use in them, so the inks will dry without heat. Adhesive vinyls used in the graphics and sign industry are too thick and heavy for them, so heads strike the material, and without heat, inks on vinyl will just puddle.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Roland is the only one I know of that has one that bridges that gap for vinyl use. Most companies make desktop paper machines, or large format (36" and up) for vinyl, with nothing in between. Desktops are made for documents, photos, they will print to some thin vinyls like label & crafting sheets with coatings that simulate printing to paper specifically designed for use in them, so the inks will dry without heat. Adhesive vinyls used in the graphics and sign industry are too thick and heavy for them, so heads strike the material, and without heat, inks on vinyl will just puddle.
You may be able to find some 24" printers that may be able to handle vinyl, still considered large format (although in the "entry level" category), but still not desktop. Can get away with not using a RIP for printing, although not necessarily a good thing if trying to deal with sampling of items that final production is going to go thru a rip.

OP:
Sampling in house versus outsourcing sampling and the final production at different locations doesn't change the issue that I would have with it. If sampling and final printing happen at different locations, this issue can still be a booger to deal with, regardless if that sampling is done in house or still a separate outsourced business from final production. Unless going to use that smaller printer for short hot runs as well as sampling for said runs, not really changing anything other than being able to do sampling in house. But once one starts mixing sampling on one printer and final production on another, that benefit is lost.
 

rjssigns

Active Member
No need to print on vinyl with a properly profiled system. Belmark uses Epsons for contract proofs.
The printers in use are actually classed as RGB printers. I can't remember the exact number of inks. The rigs we had on campus were 11 color.
Biggest thing is having your monitor and printer properly profiled and having a light box for viewing.
Light box is a big deal as it will give you a consistent 5000K. Lux is variable and can range between 60 and 2000 for optimal viewing.
 
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