Latex, what would be your suggestions for improvement?

[yannb]

Hi,

If HP or another brand were to release a new latex roll-to-roll printer, what improvements would you want to see in that model compared to the current HP line up? Would you switch from HP to another brand for these reasons?

Regards,
Y.

 

[iPrintStuff]

I don’t have a latex so couldn’t vouch for the tech or improvements first hand but the main issues (or the main reason people seem to jump ship) would be colour and length consistency. Two pretty big issues!

 

[ikarasu]

I don’t have a latex so couldn’t vouch for the tech or improvements first hand but the main issues (or the main reason people seem to jump ship) would be colour and length consistency. Two pretty big issues!

They are too huge issues, so you have to ask yourself - Why do so many people buy latex if it has them huge caveats?

We print dozens of car wraps and multi panel wall wraps every week - color has never been an issue. We re-print panels for police cars that were printed 3 years ago because they got into a crash... The color matches perfectly.

Our panels always line up perfectly as well - we just did 45 + Kiosk wraps that were all paneled together... not one panel did not align out of the bunch. One of them was a 10 FT tall 45 FT wide building we wrapped... So 11 10 ft tall panels on each side... All matched in color and aligned ok.


HP does have its downsides - and I will agree, on occasion if I print something thats supposed to be 96" long it can come out at 95.8" long... but every panel would do that and would still align (At least in my experience). So I feel like the length accuracy could be better... but it's never been a problem for us.

I feel like a lot of complaints must have been on HP's early models, or people not knowing how to work the printers properly.

But onto OP's question....

HP's error system is crap. Twice now our machine was done and the fix had nothing to do with the error code... First time it wasn't bad, it took two different parts to try and repair it, and we didnt have to pay for the part they didnt need. Second time...we were down for a week and a half...3 different techs... multiple calls into HP... They couldnt figure it out until HP said they would send us 15+ parts and replace the whole innards of the machine to see if it'd work... then work their way back taking parts out one at a time. That part has turned me off from HP... I still like them and will continue to buy them, but IMO I wouldnt buy one without an extended warranty... If we had to pay 20K in parts for a 25K machine after only 1 year of use... Wouldnt even consider them!

 

[lora]

They are too huge issues, so you have to ask yourself - Why do so many people buy latex if it has them huge caveats?

We print dozens of car wraps and multi panel wall wraps every week - color has never been an issue. We re-print panels for police cars that were printed 3 years ago because they got into a crash... The color matches perfectly.

Our panels always line up perfectly as well - we just did 45 + Kiosk wraps that were all paneled together... not one panel did not align out of the bunch. One of them was a 10 FT tall 45 FT wide building we wrapped... So 11 10 ft tall panels on each side... All matched in color and aligned ok.


HP does have its downsides - and I will agree, on occasion if I print something thats supposed to be 96" long it can come out at 95.8" long... but every panel would do that and would still align (At least in my experience). So I feel like the length accuracy could be better... but it's never been a problem for us.

I feel like a lot of complaints must have been on HP's early models, or people not knowing how to work the printers properly.

But onto OP's question....

HP's error system is crap. Twice now our machine was done and the fix had nothing to do with the error code... First time it wasn't bad, it took two different parts to try and repair it, and we didnt have to pay for the part they didnt need. Second time...we were down for a week and a half...3 different techs... multiple calls into HP... They couldnt figure it out until HP said they would send us 15+ parts and replace the whole innards of the machine to see if it'd work... then work their way back taking parts out one at a time. That part has turned me off from HP... I still like them and will continue to buy them, but IMO I wouldnt buy one without an extended warranty... If we had to pay 20K in parts for a 25K machine after only 1 year of use... Wouldnt even consider them!

Do you mind sharing what model of HP you use for wall panels? I am debating in between HP 365 Latex and Epson s60600 for my wallpaper murals printing company.
Thank you in advance.

 

[ikarasu]

We use a 560 and 360.

 

[lora]

We use a 560 and 360.

Thank you

 

[danno]

I have printed with HP Latex, UV and solvent machines. I have also used other brands, Mimaki, Seiko, OCE, Canon, Epson. The HP has a very high temperature to evaporate the water from the print. It requires 2 220V outlets. The solvent or eco-solvent machines I have operated only require 1 120V. The Latex also operates around 210°F =/-. The other machines are around 120°F. I have had issues with print lengths and with colour matching for repair pieces on latex. The newest printers are better than the earlier machines. My suggestion would be to take some files and demo the machines you are considering. Use the same files on all machines, then take them to your shop and compare. I like the Epson S80600 for the extended colour gamut available.

 

[yannb]

Thanks already for the comments. The next big signage tradeshow will be the one to look out for.

 

[DPD]

I have printed with HP Latex, UV and solvent machines. I have also used other brands, Mimaki, Seiko, OCE, Canon, Epson. The HP has a very high temperature to evaporate the water from the print. It requires 2 220V outlets. The solvent or eco-solvent machines I have operated only require 1 120V. The Latex also operates around 210°F =/-. The other machines are around 120°F. I have had issues with print lengths and with colour matching for repair pieces on latex. The newest printers are better than the earlier machines. My suggestion would be to take some files and demo the machines you are considering. Use the same files on all machines, then take them to your shop and compare. I like the Epson S80600 for the extended colour gamut available.

How did you test to see if the color gamut was wider on the Epson v. HP?

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Basically the best thing they can do is bring all the tech minus the hybrid nature from the R series to the L series. So lower temp curing, wider head swath, white ink, selectable scratch resist additive, and speed.

Beyond that, I would like to see a 5L Ink system and 300 Yard roll holder for a 64in machine that wasn't a hybrid for under $100k and we would convert instantly.

 

[jasonx]

Basically the best thing they can do is bring all the tech minus the hybrid nature from the R series to the L series. So lower temp curing, wider head swath, white ink, selectable scratch resist additive, and speed.

Beyond that, I would like to see a 5L Ink system and 300 Yard roll holder for a 64in machine that wasn't a hybrid for under $100k and we would convert instantly.

That would canabalize their 1500/3000 platforms.

 

[tudouqiezi]

I need a white ink

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

That would canabalize their 1500/3000 platforms.

Not really as they can significantly increase those platforms in the same way for larger production facilities.

The 1500 is a flop and should go away. Their mid range should be the R series, top line the 3000 series and pro grade the L series.

 

[DrunknMonk]

we have a 365, remove the wax additive in there ink so laminates stick better to their inks.

 

[danno]

How did you test to see if the color gamut was wider on the Epson v. HP?

I have a PMS chart that I created and also custom built files, images and vector, that were compared side by side after both machines were profiled.

 

[bannertime]

Not really as they can significantly increase those platforms in the same way for larger production facilities.

The 1500 is a flop and should go away. Their mid range should be the R series, top line the 3000 series and pro grade the L series.

What about bringing back a 104 inch like the old 280? They could drop the 1500 and leave high volume grand format to the 3000.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

What about bringing back a 104 inch like the old 280? They could drop the 1500 and leave high volume grand format to the 3000.

That's very true too, but would have it compete with the R series on size.

 

[bannertime]

That's very true too, but would have it compete with the R series on size.

I'm guessing there is a reason they didn't make a 380, but I know 100% we'd have had one. For a shop like mine an r2000 would never make sense, but a 104in r2r in the 300/500 form factor would have. We looked into a 1500, but we'd have to boot our sister company out or have a separate production facility.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

I'm guessing there is a reason they didn't make a 380, but I know 100% we'd have had one. For a shop like mine an r2000 would never make sense, but a 104in r2r in the 300/500 form factor would have. We looked into a 1500, but we'd have to boot our sister company out or have a separate production facility.

Oh I agree with you, but from HPs standpoint this it would cannibalize from their target machine sales.

 

[Dan360]

Better registration on double sided prints. Edge holders that don't cause more problems than they solve. Heater vents that are easier to access for cleaning. White ink would be nice. A calibration for the scan axis (this might exist but I can't find it, the service manual mentions it though techs have told me it doesn't exist). Temperature monitors for the heaters to identify low temp zones before it becomes an issue. A warning when too many nozzles aren't firing.

The length inconsistency hasn't been a problem for us, panels always line up just fine. The straightness optimization bothers me more, especially on paper but I've only tried to adjust it a couple times.

We have a 360 and really the issues we've had with it are minor compared to what others report. I do prefer it to the Roland we used to have. My biggest complaint is the availability of media for latex. It's getting better but there's just more options for solvent.