Layout Suggestions

[Johnny Best]

He's a backdoor man like Jim Morrison.

 

[Johnny Best]

3x8 back yard sign

 

[Rick]

For a few bucks you can bust out of the square and give it a bit of dimension... we all hate cheap customers, why do it to yourself...

I had another idea because I'm bored...

 

[ddarlak]

rick, i love your designs.

i printed the last one i posted, the red one and stuck it.

hope to have it up next week.

as far as why not next to the entrance, my building is a giant U shape, with the entrance in the middle. this part of the building faces the street. i have soooo many projects started i definitely don't need any more. i was cleaning the shop and just couldn't throw this sign out. i just wanted to throw up a quick sign before this thing was in my way for another year....

i will be making a version of the retro one for the other side of my building, i'll hand paint it on red brick about 20 feet across.....add it to the list

 

[equippaint]

For a few bucks you can bust out of the square and give it a bit of dimension... we all hate cheap customers, why do it to yourself...

I had another idea because I'm bored...

I hated the clipart but actually really like the busting out rendition.
It took me 6 yrs to make my own sign and its super basic, like a giant business card. I had to have one up for a state inspection and could not get creative. Can definately feel your pain ddarlak. Im just waiting for a car to hit it and put it out of its misery.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

I feel that the red background takes attention away from your building/logo. Maybe blue background and put your text in red?

For the love of god. Why?

 

[neato]

For the love of god. Why?

Make sure to put a black outline around the red letters so they really pop off of the blue background.

 

[signbrad]

i too felt that it was too much white space

LAYOUT ANEMIA

I believe ddarlak correctly identified what may have been the main weakness in the original layout. Too much white space. But it was not that there was too much white space surrounding the block of copy. Rather, there was too much white space within the letters and between lines.
The line spacing in the lettering, from top to bottom, was virtually identical. This is sometimes called “vertical justification,” and it is usually not a good design technique. It adds a vaguely monotonous element that is visually weak. It's an anemic, too-much-whiteness look that lacks strength. Yet it is extremely common in sign work today. And I think the reason for that is that it is difficult for many to identify as being a weakness.
In addition to the vertical justification, the medium letter stroke and the wide letter spacing in the original layout added even more whiteness.

The simplest solution to this problem does not necessarily involve color or typestyle changes, but simply manipulating the negative space. Tightening the line spacing is part of the fix. Then tighten the letter spacing. These two changes alone improve the layout nicely, as is obvious from rick's two re-designs. His added touch, using a bolder version of the same letterstyle, strengthens the layout further. Increasing the top and bottom margins a little would have helped even more.

Though this layout could look good in dozens of different color combinations, reversing the colors, so that the letters are white and the background is dark, is an added way to increase the boldness of the lettering. This principle, that a white letter looks bolder than a dark letter, was identified and demonstrated by Hermann von Helmholtz, a German scientist, in the 1860s. I won't go into detail about it as my comments are already lengthy. I wrote a blog on the subject a couple years ago if anyone wants to read more.

GENEROUS MARGINS

Johnny Best's re-design (I'm looking at his first two) is a nice improvement, too. His is noteworthy for the generous margins around the copy. Graphic designer and author John McWade, in his book Graphics for Business, said, “Wide margins are like fresh linen: they set an open, inviting table.”

A common mistake among novice designers is to view negative space as “wasted space.” Also, micromanaging clients invariably pressure sign designers to “fill up” the sign. They fear negative space, thinking that it prevents them from getting their money's worth. This is misguided thinking.
For good insight on the importance of viewing negative space as an essential design component, rather than merely background, see Alex White's book, The Elements of Graphic Design, chapters 1 through 3.
I once heard a sign designer say, “put more space surrounding the layout, less space within the layout.” It's a good rule of thumb, generally.

SHOULD CLIPART BE IN A LOGO DESIGN?

A logo is a mark that represents a company or product. It can be composed of lettering or a graphic symbol or a combination of both. When I design a logo for a client, I want to make sure that it's something they can own completely. However, if the design incorporates a piece of clipart that is owned by someone else (the clipart service), then my client can't have complete ownership of their own logo. If the client then decides to spend the 600 dollars to register the logo with the US Patent & Trademark Office only to find out that they are denied registration because the design incorporates artwork owned by a third party, I have done them a disservice. Especially since the 600 is nonrefundable.

It's one thing to put clipart on our own shop sign and call it our “logo.” In that case, perhaps the worst that could happen is that another sign shop will open up a block away and buy the same clipart for their shop sign. But to use clipart as part of a logo design for a client, and imply that they then own the design, is misleading.

When we as designers buy clipart, we are in most cases not buying ownership of the artwork. We are merely buying a license to use it. And even then, the license often comes with restrictions. istockphoto, for example, specifically prohibits using any of its clipart as part of a logo or branding scheme.

I'm not against using clipart on sign work. Since I don't have the time or the talent to create original artwork on every sign I design, I use lots of clipart. Further, sign makers are not artists in the sense that a fine artist is, whose concern may center around self-expression. We are not trying to create works of art in that sense. In making signs, our goal is to make money by helping our clients make money. We are selling a form of advertising, and a very cost-effective one. Clipart helps to do that. But I often explain to a client that a design with clipart is not really a logo design. They will not own the clipart images nor can they prevent anyone else, including their competitors, from using the exact same clipart images.

Brad in Kansas City

 

[ddarlak]

its not clip art....it just looks like clip art, i intended it to when i made it...

 

[signbrad]

its not clip art....it just looks like clip art, i intended it to when i made it...

You nailed it.