What is your quoting procedure?

[gnubler]

Many shops, including mine, offer "free quotes", but what does that entail and how do you approach it?

I can run through my entire list of questions with a customer over the phone or email and possibly throw out a ballpark cost based on a past job, but in most cases for custom signage a site visit is needed and then time to figure out costs. I don't bother asking customers what their budget is because they never have one. "I don't know" is the answer. I don't expect them to know what a sign might cost...I mean, most of the time I don't either until I run the numbers.

I don't charge upfront for site visits or sales calls - does anyone else do that in order to qualify a customer? I'm spending too much time quoting jobs that never happen. And by never I mean I wasn't outbid by another shop, I never see a sign go up so it's likely budget related or indecision. How do you minimize the time & effort put into quotes?

(This is sort of a spinoff of the recent thread Design Fees and Payment Upfront, but with a focus on the estimating/quoting process.)

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I give ball parks and tell them if they want to move forward with a firm quote to call me back. You will be able to tell the people that are in over their heads will get off the phone and not call back. Some will say they want a firm quote and that will "qualify" the lead. If I'm too busy and I think there is a low chance of getting the job, or they mention getting multiple bids, I'll hit them up for a site survey charge. If they are a third party sign company, they get a site survey charge regardless. For local people, the site survey doesn't have to be expensive, just something to weed out the tire kickers. Maybe $75. If they are third party, they pay full price survey, usually around $300-$375.

It's a gamble to balance time invested in bidding. Inevitably, you will waste time on bids that don't come to fruitarian, but as you get more experienced you'll get better at figuring it out.

 

[victor bogdanov]

I give a price range and if they are good with that range I'll do the actual quote. I get customers contacting me for wall wraps and when I tell them it will be for example 3k some will say WHAT? I was thinking more like $500. The rough price range eliminates those that had no idea about what it might cost

 

[Gino]

Everyone receives free quotes/estimates. Now, if someone asks me to come out and quote on things after I do a survey, I charge for an on-site survey and get paid upfront for that.

Asking what their budget is, usually will tell ya if they've spoken and gotten quotes from other people.

Yesterday, I had a followup with a woman who wants a price on their community sign..... 8' x 11' Most likely carved and gilded. After asking her a few questions, she let me know what 2 of the other shops are bidding. I told her, the one sounded like a great price, she might wanna seriously consider it, the other one wasn't as good, but still not bad. After more talking, I found neither one included installation, permits or design time. However, it was still a good price for all the gold she wanted. She finally said, the others are not working with me, they are telling me what they will offer, not what I want. Then, I come to find out..... they both are quoting on a 3' x 8'. About a third of what she was asking from me. Now, how can you bid apples to apples when the other sign shops are cutting corners, cause they don't know how to make what she wants ??

 

[rjssigns]

Tex is on point. Ballpark "guesstimate" first. If I have to travel for a quote you're paying me. It's called having some skin in the game and it definitely weeds out the tire kickers.

 

[gnubler]

Inevitably, you will waste time on bids that don't come to fruitarian,

Is that like an even more militant type of vegan? Like, strictly fruit only? If that includes wine I'd be good with it.

Some good points made here, thanks for the comments. I'm still learning lots of things the hard way and have been bending over way too far in an effort to get any and all jobs that come my way.

There are still some jobs where a guesstimate over the phone/email is impossible. Some people don't have the ability to use a measuring tape, or just don't want to.

 

[Stacey K]

I usually do estimate that includes a range. Most people are ok with that. Sometimes I refuse to give an exact price if the job is small and they are being cheap about it. I tell them I'm very busy and I don't have time for exact pricing on multiple sizes - this is the range, period. Asking for a budget helps a lot! If they have a budget of $500 - I always through the next highest price in there too.

My son was painting for Bill at the local furniture store Saturday. He said a customer came in looking for a couch. Bill didn't talk about the couch at first, he asked personal questions like if he had kids, etc., asked him where he got his hat, then started about the couch. My son said, "Mom, by the time Bill was done talking, I wanted to buy the couch!" (yes, the person bought the couch!)

I'm not quite that good of a salesperson LOL

 

[Scotchbrite]

I know that sales stuff works, but for me personally it's an immediate put off because I know the tactics. Every time a sales person comes into the shop, they start doing the personal connection thing. You can see them looking around the office for something to comment on, which is why I don't like having pictures of my kids on my desk, makes it too easy for them. I've had an office dog for the past several years and that's a HUGE safety blanket for the sales people. You can tell it's a sales person just by how they react to him. Well that and the way they are dressed doesn't match our rural community.

I think giving the broad estimates is a good way to weed out the dead end quotes. This is especially true for LED message centers. I've kinda given up on doing the price range thing, because all people ever remember is the low end of the range.

We try not to do site visits until the quoting process is much further along. There are a lot of things you can learn just using Google Street View, but you have to verify the date when it was captured.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I usually do estimate that includes a range. Most people are ok with that. Sometimes I refuse to give an exact price if the job is small and they are being cheap about it. I tell them I'm very busy and I don't have time for exact pricing on multiple sizes - this is the range, period. Asking for a budget helps a lot! If they have a budget of $500 - I always through the next highest price in there too.

My son was painting for Bill at the local furniture store Saturday. He said a customer came in looking for a couch. Bill didn't talk about the couch at first, he asked personal questions like if he had kids, etc., asked him where he got his hat, then started about the couch. My son said, "Mom, by the time Bill was done talking, I wanted to buy the couch!" (yes, the person bought the couch!)

I'm not quite that good of a salesperson LOL

I hate sales talk like this, it feels so forced and insincere, I know the guy selling me a sofa doesn't give a shit about my kids, why pretend he does?

 

[Gino]

Was up on the shop roof this morning with a specialist from the insurance company. We can't agree on damage done to the roof, so they sent a specialist. He's talking about how cold it is for the returning robin's and the tulips are gonna die from all this cold were having. I said, and the moisture and rain under the slits are freezing and causing still more damage the longer we stand out here and bullsh!t.

Same thing like you said about the double talkers.

 

[ProSignTN]

I usually do estimate that includes a range. Most people are ok with that. Sometimes I refuse to give an exact price if the job is small and they are being cheap about it. I tell them I'm very busy and I don't have time for exact pricing on multiple sizes - this is the range, period. Asking for a budget helps a lot! If they have a budget of $500 - I always through the next highest price in there too.

My son was painting for Bill at the local furniture store Saturday. He said a customer came in looking for a couch. Bill didn't talk about the couch at first, he asked personal questions like if he had kids, etc., asked him where he got his hat, then started about the couch. My son said, "Mom, by the time Bill was done talking, I wanted to buy the couch!" (yes, the person bought the couch!)

I'm not quite that good of a salesperson LOL

Stacey, you got your high pressure carnival barkers and then you have professional sales people. It's more about listening than talking. The more info you have from a potential customer, the better to suit their needs.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

Most customers want quotes (not estimates). But often they have no idea what they want. The first order of business is figuring out what they need, which usually involves a discussion about their business and a site survey. Several options are usually appropriate, and each needs to be evaluated for their efficacy and cost. It's a lot of upfront work before the quote goes out the door. Our market is custom exterior signs for small businesses and regional chains. These are usually savvy shoppers, and they will go to Sign Chimp or Vista to compare our prices to what they can get off the internet. My best sales trick is doing sketches on the spot to work out ideas. It helps to be confident and handy with a pencil (it doesn't work trying to do this on a computer – or a phone, God forbid – with the client breathing down your neck). Pencil and paper (or the back of an envelope or napkin is even better). I've had clients save these little drawings and have them framed. Just sayin'...
Many of our sign installations are local landmarks. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been made by clients following our design recommendations. Everybody in town knows our work. We are by no means the cheapest, and I don't get them all, but the clients we do manage to land become clients for life and most go on to have very successful businesses.

 

[Jean Shimp]

When quoting interior office wall signs one thing I've found that works pretty good is to have the client tape an 8 1/2 x 11" regular sheet of paper to the wall where the sign will go. Stand back directly in front of the paper and photograph the wall. Email me the photo so I can scale it up on the computer and have an idea what size letters they need. This eliminates the need for a site visit, which we charge for. It's not perfect but it can help create an estimate of the cost.

 

[Stacey K]

I'm not a fan of the salesperson either but Bill has made a small fortune over his years, just kind of a funny story lol

Fun fact...when my son first started working for Bill about 2 summers ago delivering furniture on Thursdays and Saturdays, he paid him $14hr. He came home from college last week and was a bit bored so he called his buddy Bill up to see if he could work a couple hours. He worked a couple days and made $300! He pays $25 an hour now because he can't find any help! My younger son jumped on it so he's going to start working Saturdays until school is out then Thursdays and Saturdays in summer. Walmart is paying $14 and half my son's friends work there...vs making $25 delivering furniture 2 days a week? It's a no-brainer to me!

 

[Gino]

Walmart has some good bennies, though. Does Bill ??

 

[netsol]

And not every walmart job involves carrying heavy furniture

(You could be a greeter)

 

[Gino]

Here's the easiest and most accurate way of quoting anything.......................

 

[TopFliteGraphics]

Walmart has some good bennies, though. Does Bill ??

Only for full time employees now from what I have heard and most department managers only hire part-timers

 

[Stacey K]

Walmart has some good bennies, though. Does Bill ??

Not sure about bennies if you are just a high student at Walmart? Bill is nice and buys lunch and gave my son free used furniture LOL

 

[gnubler]

Most customers want quotes (not estimates). But often they have no idea what they want. The first order of business is figuring out what they need, which usually involves a discussion about their business and a site survey.

This has been my experience exactly, and in the majority of projects it's hard to come up with a ballpark price without seeing what I'm getting into. Trying to get basic information from people is like pulling teeth. I have a quote request form on my website asking for all the minimum specs...dimensions, where is the sign going, brand new or reface, etc. Sure enough, got another one yesterday with zero information other than "I need some signs directing people to my place, how much would that cost?" I responded with a few basic questions and got back an even more retarded response, and no answers.